GDT: Preseason Game 1: Pittsburgh Penguins vs. Buffalo Sabres from PSU!

[Empoleon8771]

We shouldn't forget or downplay that DeSmith's proven to be one of the best backups in the league over the past 2 years. What's the argument for Jarry performance-wise?

No he hasn't? DeSmith has been like a ~.915 save% backup while averaging around 20 starts a season in the last 2 years. That's not "one of the best backups in the league", that's an above average backup. Just thinking quickly, he's not better than Miller, Kuemper, Halak, Khudobin, Grubauer, Saros or Greiss, who have all been backups for the last 2 years. There are also guys who have had individual better seasons than DeSmith, like Campbell, McElhinney or Brossoit.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Nitpicking maybe, but DeSmith's shown to be very good when Murray's been injured, and hasn't shown as much stepping into games here and there.

But then neither's Jarry.

That's the key. DeSmith's numbers are basically that of a middle-of-the-road starter, and he makes only 1.25 mil for the next few years. I don't see what suggests Jarry's going to be better (or as good) than that. He's younger, has a "better build", and...?

 

[Empoleon8771]

The argument for keeping Jarry over DeSmith is that Jarry has shown he's a fine NHL caliber backup while being younger and cheaper than DeSmith and probably having a higher upside than DeSmith. If they had equal performances in net, there wouldn't be a debate because you'd pick Jarry every single time if they were equal goalies right now. DeSmith being better than Jarry right now is why it's an argument, because everything else is an advantage for Jarry.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

No he hasn't? DeSmith has been like a ~.915 save% backup while averaging around 20 starts a season in the last 2 years. That's not "one of the best backups in the league", that's an above average backup. Just thinking quickly, he's not better than Miller, Kuemper, Halak, Khudobin, Grubauer, Saros or Greiss, who have all been backups for the last 2 years. There are also guys who have had individual better seasons than DeSmith, like Campbell, McElhinney or Brossoit.

DeSmith's numbers speak for themselves. Tied for 15th in SV% among all goalies (.917%) who have played at least 40 games over the past 2 years:

Player Season Finder | Hockey-Reference.com

Halak and Griess from your list are below him, and Grubauer is now a starter. Even if we acknowledged that the other guys on your list are above him, he's still easily top 10 in the league among back-ups, and cheaper than most who have performed better.

But most importantly, what has Jarry done to make that disposable?

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

The argument for keeping Jarry over DeSmith is that Jarry has shown he's a fine NHL caliber backup while being younger and cheaper than DeSmith and probably having a higher upside than DeSmith. If they had equal performances in net, there wouldn't be a debate because you'd pick Jarry every single time if they were equal goalies right now. DeSmith being better than Jarry right now is why it's an argument, because everything else is an advantage for Jarry.

When did he do that?

 

[Randy Butternubs]

@Empoleon8771 @Soggy Biscuit I'd love it if you took this discussion to the cap thread. I keep clicking on this one hoping to read other's input about last night's game.

 

[Malkinstheman]

 

[Peat]

That's the key. DeSmith's numbers are basically that of a middle-of-the-road starter, and he makes only 1.25 mil for the next few years. I don't see what suggests Jarry's going to be better (or as good) than that. He's younger, has a "better build", and...?

There's nothing concrete on Jarry, no.

I'm just a little hesitant on DeSmith definitely being who he was going forwards when goaltenders are so volatile and the circs might change.

Tbh, I'm happy to trust the org whatever they do with this. I don't think there's any super obvious way to play this one.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

That Marino assist and Johnson goal.

 

[Peat]

Yohe's Ups and Downs based on the game were DeSmith (Jarry HM), Simon, Poulin/Legare, and Marino, with ZAR, JJ/Ruh, and Miletec as downs - that strike people as fair?

 

[Empoleon8771]

Yohe's Ups and Downs based on the game were DeSmith (Jarry HM), Simon, Poulin/Legare, and Marino, with ZAR, JJ/Ruh, and Miletec as downs - that strike people as fair?

I don't think it's unfair but I'm not sure I agree with Poulin in the good and Miletic in the bad. Although I didn't see the 3rd period, I didn't notice either of those guys much last night, so I struggle to say either was good or bad.

I'd also include Blueger in good and Riikola in bad. Overall it doesn't seem bad, although I think Johnson and Ruhwedel deserve their own category of bad.

 

[dogthateats]

Poulin/Legare weren’t good or bad in my opinion. Neither did anything to mess up or really stand out, besides Legare’s nice assist.

Miletic was even more invisible. I remember one play of his all night.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Yohe's Ups and Downs based on the game were DeSmith (Jarry HM), Simon, Poulin/Legare, and Marino, with ZAR, JJ/Ruh, and Miletec as downs - that strike people as fair?

Feel like Jarry was better than DeSmith despite less shots.

Idk if I’d have Poulin/Legare as ups. They weren’t bad and flashed in spots but not to any serious extent. Simon was fine, and I thought he looked noticeably faster/quicker (maybe just standing out b/c preseason pace) but didn’t really do anything to be an up.

Give me Blueger’s performance over any of those guys. But I’d agree with the others Yohe had.

 

[EVGENIMERLIN]

Yohe's Ups and Downs based on the game were DeSmith (Jarry HM), Simon, Poulin/Legare, and Marino, with ZAR, JJ/Ruh, and Miletec as downs - that strike people as fair?

Teddy was pretty damn good in the last 2 periods. I don't remember Miletec doing anything bad. Addison had a rough game, but got better as it went on and had a nice recovery to stop a scoring chance late.

JJ/Ruh were abysmal. I admit that I don't like JJ, I hated the signing when it happened, so you could easily say I am biased, but he was OBVIOUSLY terrible last night. He couldn't handle simple passes back to the blue line

 

[Peat]

I feel like Poulin/Legare are on a different scoring chart than everyone else - at their age, simply looking like they can stand the pace and physicality of the game with a few flashes is significant; the same performance from, say, Miletec at the age of 21/22 is a lot less impressive.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

We need more prospects!!!! lol
As much as we are in win mode now, GMJR needs to stop giving away draft picks like candies on every deal he makes

 

[Empoleon8771]

He couldn't handle simple passes back to the blue line

That plus the only thing Johnson would do in the defensive zone was stand in front of the net were the 2 things I noticed about him. What was interesting is that I did think he looked quicker and also was moving the puck better than he did last year, but he looked like a tire fire in the offensive zone and got pinned in the defensive zone regularly. When pinned, he either just stood in front of the net or was a step behind while chasing in the defensive zone.

Who was worse between Ruhwedel and Johnson last night is an interesting discussion to have. Johnson did make a couple of good plays, but he also made a lot of noticeably bad plays. Ruhwedel? I can't recall him doing a single good thing last night, but he also had fewer noticeably bad plays.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

That's the key. DeSmith's numbers are basically that of a middle-of-the-road starter, and he makes only 1.25 mil for the next few years. I don't see what suggests Jarry's going to be better (or as good) than that. He's younger, has a "better build", and...?

Certainly he's less engaged mentally than DeSmith. CDS is a fighter.
Think that casual attitude of Jarrs has rubbed the coaching staffs the wrong way over the last few years.

Besides, what has Jarry done at this level to warrant replacing CDS? Nothing.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I feel like Poulin/Legare are on a different scoring chart than everyone else - at their age, simply looking like they can stand the pace and physicality of the game with a few flashes is significant; the same performance from, say, Miletec at the age of 21/22 is a lot less impressive.

You grade on a curve for age, for sure, but I didn't really notice either of them yesterday outside of Legare's assist.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Only 1 preseason game, and he hardly did anything.. but clear that the concerns people had about Poulin’s skating are really overblown. First few steps are average at worst and he’s got decent speed. Gets around more than fine.

I’d probably send him back pretty soon here though. Let him prepare to dominate QMJHL season. Should be one of the best players in that league.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

You grade on a curve for age, for sure, but I didn't really notice either of them yesterday outside of Legare's assist.

Yeah this is pretty much what I meant. Like just not sure what Yohe is getting the “up” from.

 

[Gurglesons]

I feel like Poulin/Legare are on a different scoring chart than everyone else - at their age, simply looking like they can stand the pace and physicality of the game with a few flashes is significant; the same performance from, say, Miletec at the age of 21/22 is a lot less impressive.

Not to mention the fact this was your typical game 5 in the post season. Good portion of Buffalo’s roster was out there.

I think all of our younger players Poulin, Addison, and Legaire all found their legs towards the end of the 2nd and throughout the 3rd.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Plus I think you can get a decent return for DeSmith (like a 2nd or 3rd), while you'll be getting borderline nothing back for Jarry. I think it's better asset management to go with the younger guy.



I think the best option is to sink one of your forwards to move Johnson, either for nothing and target another D or just trade him for another D. I've been throwing out Johnson and McCann/Rust/Kahun to Detroit for Daley, which is similar to the McCann and Bjugstad for UFAs and picks deal that the Penguins made last year.

If you can't do that, then just stash Johnson in the AHL with the plan on buying him out after the year and trade Ruhwedel. Try to find a bottom pair LD for the money you have left to battle with Riikola (who should be viewed as the #7 to start) for the bottom pair LD spot.

After seeing JJ play again, I'm not sure any of those players get it done. 4x3.25 for someone getting outplayed by an AHL player and a guy who just turned pro. I definitely don't think McCann could and Rust is a lot of cap. Either 6.75 for both or 5.675 for Rust with JJ in the AHL. Kahun might but idk. They could probably hold out for a better return to take on a bad contract. I think the only way JJ gets moved and the Pens don't take on a comparably bad player is pure luck, or someone wants to start tanking this season.

I feel like Poulin/Legare are on a different scoring chart than everyone else - at their age, simply looking like they can stand the pace and physicality of the game with a few flashes is significant; the same performance from, say, Miletec at the age of 21/22 is a lot less impressive.

Something like that. You've always got tiers for players and they're near the bottom with Addison because of age and development. The big thing for me is that Miletic has a season of AHL hockey under his belt. Legare and Poulin are physically developed for their age but Miletic has pro experience. It's why Marino at 22 was so impressive. I don't think Legare, Poulin or Miletic embarrassed themselves by just getting through it with a couple of flashes. Buffalo sending most of their NHL team is bad form because of this, tbh. "Here, teenager who isn't NHL ready, have fun with an NHL team for 60 minutes. Watch out for the 1st liners!"

You just get an idea of the depth chart when some players handle it better than others. Lafferty stood out from the WBS crew for me, Marino really stood out, both goalies were big for an overwhelmed team, Blueger clearly looked like an NHL player, good Johnson had his moments and once Rust got going he was by far the best winger on the Pens. Simon did look faster and for what might be the first time ever I liked Czuczman. ZAR did what he does at the NHL level? I liked that Addison improved as the game went on. He didn't spiral and he was seemingly getting used to the pace which I find encouraging. Legare and Poulin getting by was good for them because like Addison they could have wilted and I wouldn't have been too worried.

 

[Malkinstheman]

I wonder if the team will keep Addison/Legare/Poulin at camp or send them down. Their junior seasons start this week. Might not be a bad idea too let them get in a couple more practices.

 

[Shady Machine]

Eichel is so filthy in 3 on 3. Looks like he's moving in slow motion and then he's gone.