GWT: Premier League Round 1

[YNWA14]

Weird to have that come away from his game. Salah is an amazing player but he was not even top 5 for Liverpool today.

Also if anything this game should be an indication that Liverpool are ready to challenge City for the title. Their issue hasn't been dropping points against other top teams it's consistency against mid and bottom table teams. They've looked very sharp since the back end of last season.

 

[KJS14]

I didn’t say you pumped the defense. You sold over and over that the team improved. They haven’t. They have the same attack with the same passengers in midfield and many of the same culprits in defense. They’ll throttle some of the crap sides and get tonked by anyone worth anything.

Ozil is playing up front because he doesn’t put in the work in the midfield going back.

Two of their biggest signings this summer didn't start today, and they ended up playing a 19 year old in midfield and 2 players out of position at LB. It was Emery's first competitive game as our manager. We're one game into the season, against the best team in the league, and you guys are acting like were at the halfway point or something. You'll have plenty of time to criticize, but I'm not sure why you're all giving us the "I told you so" treatment after one single game.

Ozil is playing up front, because you put attacking players of his caliber up front. He and Mkhi should not be used as true wide players though, and that falls on Emery not putting him in the best position to succeed.

 

[YNWA14]

Not a top 10 defender in the PL.

 

[Baxterman]

Not a top 10 defender in the PL.

Not even close.

And since when do defenders keep clean sheets?

 

[Gecklund]

Not even close.

And since when do defenders keep clean sheets?

Who’s above him? I’m not a Liverpool or VVD fan but he’s at least a top 10 CB in the PL. One guy that should be in this conversation by the end of the season if he stays healthy is Bailly with Lindelof having an outside chance of taking a spot.

 

[Live in the Now]

Our defense obviously still sucks and any random fan off the street is better than the players who kept a clean sheet today, or Lovren who made a World Cup Final. After that Spurs game, they gave up six goals in 12 matches the whole rest of the season. Two of those being Alexander-Arnold completely f***ing up. He definitely didn't mess up today though, he's only going to get better.

It is super interesting to see what the team can actually become. Those Robertson-Keita combinations were destroying West Ham, it is also an element of our play we did not have last season. Also an element we didn't have is a goalkeeper who can make huge world class saves when the defense does mess up.

 

[Evilo]

Pavard played and won a WC final.
Doesn't make him world class.

Just sayin.

 

[Live in the Now]

Pavard played and won a WC final.
Doesn't make him world class.

Just sayin.

It was stated that Lovren and the other defenders were the same quality as a random fan from the street.

Same person as the Ashley Williams comment.

 

[Scouter]

Weird to have that come away from his game. Salah is an amazing player but he was not even top 5 for Liverpool today.

Also if anything this game should be an indication that Liverpool are ready to challenge City for the title. Their issue hasn't been dropping points against other top teams it's consistency against mid and bottom table teams. They've looked very sharp since the back end of last season.

L'pool are so overrated it's not even funny, they aren't going to win anything with that crapo defense.

 

[Scouter]

Man City will bag another title no doubt, no stopping them.

L'pool just had an easy opener vs. a club with a brand new manager.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

Pavard played and won a WC final.
Doesn't make him world class.

Just sayin.

I love Pavard actually.

I knew little about him prior the world cup and he was the big standout for me. I started watching many videos of him and I was blown away by his agressiveness and technique. Very promising future ahead.

I do think he might be closer than World Class than we think.

 

[Chimaera]

He’s not. He could be very good some day, but he’s not close world class at this point. I’ve watched enough VfB matches to know he has a ways to go, though at times he does look the part.

 

[Chimaera]

It’s true, we don’t know a ton about this Liverpool side yet. We know what they did last year (specifically January on) and we know they added some talent. But September till Oct 7 should give an idea. They play Chelsea, Spurs and City, along with a possible relegation in Southampton and a tricky match with Leicester. They’re usually ok with the other big clubs, but will they slip against the teams they should beat?

 

[Havre]

Not a top 10 defender in the PL.

Fantastic tweet.

Liverpool played Newcastle, Watford, Bournemouth, Stoke and Brighton "since February." The two games before that they conceded 3 goals with van Dijk playing.

How many goals did Spurs concede in their home games against the same teams? 1. And unlike Liverpool they took 15 points off those teams. Liverpool took 13.

I wouldn't go as far as calling it "fake news", but that tweet is fairly stupid as it makes it sound like this is some sort of special accomplishment. It really wasn't.

 

[YNWA14]

It isn't a special accomplishment to have the most clean sheets behind him in the PL since making his debut for Liverpool (and remember this is with guys like Gomez, Lovren and Karius playing with him who are much maligned on this board)? It must be the universally praised midfielders Henderson and Wijnaldum or the extremely defensive structure that insulates van Dijk and co. There's more than one part to the tweet, by the way, and having a string of clean sheets, regardless of opponent, is pretty difficult actually.

But whatever helps you get on with things.

 

[Prntscrn]

Who is top of the league? The rest of you should just sit down and be humble

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Our defense obviously still sucks and any random fan off the street is better than the players who kept a clean sheet today, or Lovren who made a World Cup Final. After that Spurs game, they gave up six goals in 12 matches the whole rest of the season. Two of those being Alexander-Arnold completely ****ing up. He definitely didn't mess up today though, he's only going to get better.

It is super interesting to see what the team can actually become. Those Robertson-Keita combinations were destroying West Ham, it is also an element of our play we did not have last season. Also an element we didn't have is a goalkeeper who can make huge world class saves when the defense does mess up.

I feel like Keita added a dimension to the Liverpool game that they missed so far. Klopp's system thrives when he has an athletic, ball controlling midfielder that also has attacking skills. Keita finally brings that to the table.

 

[Gecklund]

I saw a tweet with just stats and Fred and Keita had almost identical stats in the first two games yet Fred was said to have an average game at best and Keita was said to be of another world.

 

[Havre]

I have nothing against Liverpool and van Dijk. On the contrary compared to City and Chelsea Liverpool is a proper football club. And compared to Man Utd they got a manager I can respect (even if Klopp says his fair share of stupid things as well). But by all means - if anyone thinks I wrote my reply based on "bashing Liverpool" then so be it.

A small sample size where Liverpool happened to play a lot of weak teams at home doesn't prove or really indicate anything, but for some reason Liverpool fans seem almost obsessed by "proving" that van Dijk is good.

 

[YNWA14]

I saw a tweet with just stats and Fred and Keita had almost identical stats in the first two games yet Fred was said to have an average game at best and Keita was said to be of another world.

Watching the games helps in this regard, but I don't think they have similar stats, at least not according to whoscored. For example Fred had 0 key passes, 0 dribbles, lost the ball 4 times, had a bunch of fouls in dangerous areas, etc. while Keita had a bunch more passes, 2 dribbles (though he had a bunch of runs with the ball so idk how that's measured), set up a scoring chance, etc. Their roles weren't even similar so I don't know why they'd be compared, but yeah Fred was much worse than Keita in their first games, regardless of how it was framed.

 

[koyvoo]

Gary Neville seems to appreciate Van Dijk more and more as time passes.

I thought Van Dijk was a good player at Southampton, but I didn't think he was worth £75m, and I didn't think he would have the impact on Liverpool's defence that he's had.
He's a monster, and is looking a bit like Jaap Stam. It looks like he just throws people out of the way.

Gary Neville on Liverpool's threat to Man City, Virgil van Dijk's influence and Klopp's squad depth

 

[Gecklund]

Watching the games helps in this regard, but I don't think they have similar stats, at least not according to whoscored. For example Fred had 0 key passes, 0 dribbles, lost the ball 4 times, had a bunch of fouls in dangerous areas, etc. while Keita had a bunch more passes, 2 dribbles (though he had a bunch of runs with the ball so idk how that's measured), set up a scoring chance, etc. Their roles weren't even similar so I don't know why they'd be compared, but yeah Fred was much worse than Keita in their first games, regardless of how it was framed.

I did watch United but not Liverpool. I have no idea where those stats were from. I will see if I can find the tweet. Also I know that stats don’t mean much but when they have similar stats (at least according to the tweet I saw which was from a United fan) just the difference in how they are seen.

Edit found it



Again I know that stats don’t mean much but according to this they had similar stats and it’s crazy how different they are talked about. Right now I think it’s popular to talk up Liverpool and crap on United.

 

[YNWA14]

Yeah but those stats are completely lacking in context, and again I'd implore you to watch the Liverpool game to see the difference. I watched both and it was clear that Fred struggled (especially in the first half) and Keita played very well. Fred found his feet more in the second half, but posting defensive numbers when United was being dominated for most of the game and Liverpool were on the front foot don't really tell the story.

 

[Blender]

I didn't think Fred stood out as particularly great or bad, he was ok. Keita I thought looked really good with his pressing and work throughout the game.

 

[Havre]

I wouldn't mind actually if we had a rule that stats in football should only be used to prove that van Dijk is good. For everything else it is quite useless.