GWT: Premier League Gameweek 11

[Jussi]

I am very far from being an expert on this sport - but, I have watched almost every Chelsea game and most ManU games this season. Morata seems to be a better player than Lukaku (and cheaper?).

Kante and Morata vs Pogba and Lukaku. Chelsea seems to win that and saved cash.

Pogba was out yesterday. Before injury, he was United's best player. His absense was noticible yesterday.

 

[Havre]

Fair enough regarding the language of awful vs bad.

But when you both saw the play, did you not see offside right away before the replays? For me, it seemed clear straight away and the replay merely confirmed it. Usually for offside it is very close live and you miss it until the replay.

Looked worse real time to me than when I saw the replay. Which is a bit odd of course.

 

[Savant]

I am very far from being an expert on this sport - but, I have watched almost every Chelsea game and most ManU games this season. Morata seems to be a better player than Lukaku (and cheaper?).

Kante and Morata vs Pogba and Lukaku. Chelsea seems to win that and saved cash.

Morata is better all around than Lukaku and Pogba is better all around than Kante. That being said ‘saving cash’ is irrelevant in soccer. None of those players being bought was prohibitive to any thing else those clubs did.

 

[Evilo]

Looked worse real time to me than when I saw the replay. Which is a bit odd of course.

Same here. Looked worse live.

 

[Live in the Now]

Morata is better all around than Lukaku and Pogba is better all around than Kante. That being said ‘saving cash’ is irrelevant in soccer. None of those players being bought was prohibitive to any thing else those clubs did.

What? Both player comparisons are totally ludicrous, you have them the exact opposite of what they actually are. Lukaku and Kante are the better players. I know people are obsessed with Pogba because he can shoot the ball but I'd choose Kante in midfield every time. If one player is merely good or better than good all around, they're not better than anyone who's elite at a few things. That Morata is cheaper is a good point and Lukaku does have less goals in all competitions than some players who were cheaper. Morata does only have one goal in Europe though.

The difference in this game was that Chelsea has better defenders than Manchester United has. Manchester United would have to play negative football regardless of their manager, their defenders aren't good enough to do anything else. Their central defenders are not of better quality than ours. Maybe worse, but they play football that makes average defenders look and play better. They couldn't contain Morata and Chelsea has better players to stop Lukaku with. End of. I know the table says Manchester United has 5 goals conceded and Chelsea has 10, so how can I possibly say Chelsea has better defenders? Totally irrelevant considering both teams play different football.

 

[hatterson]

Right now I'd take Lukaku and Kante as well. Granted I think Pogba has higher 'potential' than Kante, and he showed that early this season, but he's gotta come back from his injury and pick up at that same place before to really get credit for it. Until he does, Kante wins out. And even if he does, it's still not a gimme. Kante's been pretty close to the MVP of two straight title winning sides.

And LITN, in terms of defenders right now, United has Bailly who is a rock solid starter. Smalling who might be a decent 3rd defender or rotation option. Jones who's alright as a rotation option but shouldn't be starting against top teams. Rojo is injured, but I'd put him in the same class as Jones. Blind isn't a natural CB. Lindelof was supposed to be that second starter behind Bailly, but he's been hot garbage this year. Hopefully he can get back on track because he definitely has potential.

 

[Jussi]

Pogba had the highest whoscored rating of all United players before his injury, so his influnce was significant, especially on offense.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Right now I'd take Lukaku and Kante as well. Granted I think Pogba has higher 'potential' than Kante, and he showed that early this season, but he's gotta come back from his injury and pick up at that same place before to really get credit for it. Until he does, Kante wins out. And even if he does, it's still not a gimme. Kante's been pretty close to the MVP of two straight title winning sides.

And LITN, in terms of defenders right now, United has Bailly who is a rock solid starter. Smalling who might be a decent 3rd defender or rotation option. Jones who's alright as a rotation option but shouldn't be starting against top teams. Rojo is injured, but I'd put him in the same class as Jones. Blind isn't a natural CB. Lindelof was supposed to be that second starter behind Bailly, but he's been hot garbage this year. Hopefully he can get back on track because he definitely has potential.

I actually thought Jones was rated higher.

 

[hatterson]

I actually thought Jones was rated higher.

His issue has been injuries derailing his progress. I think he's got better potential, but hasn't been able to stay consistent enough to reach it.

 

[Evilo]

Pogba has better potential than pretty much any player. Insane physical tools, insane technical tools. To say he's only considered better because he can shoot is laughable.
Problem is, he can take over any game at any minute, but can also spend 3 months without impacting any game.
He needs a coach that changes his mindset and makes him a 90 minute player.
As of now, Kante's better.

 

[East Coast Bias]

Pogba has somehow become underrated, mostly due to the price tag. He was played out of position for almost an entire season last year. With Matic arriving, he was free to play more of an attacking/B2B role.

United have been shitty since he got injured. Mourinho started the season playing an attacking, open style. Once Pogba got injured, he went back to the old paranoid style.

The team is so much better with him. He's a great player.

 

[YNWA14]

Pogba is great and could be elite. We'll see how his progress goes. I'd have been hoping for progression if he didn't go to ManU, but eh.

Is Lukaku still better than Kane?

 

[hatterson]

Dunno who said Lukaku is better than Kane, but they were wrong.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

Dunno who said Lukaku is better than Kane, but they were wrong.

@Live in the Now before the season started.

 

[hatterson]

Lukaku can do a couple things Kane can't, and is more of a physical presence. You might be able to argue his finishing is a tiny bit more clinical [although I wouldn't], but in terms of overall what they bring it isn't even close.

 

[YNWA14]

Yeah just a little friendly ribbing. Not like Lukaku is some slouch but I'd take Kane > Morata > Lukaku personally.

 

[hatterson]

I'd still take Lukaku over Morata.

 

[Savant]

Lukaku will beat up the lousy teams, but anything you get from him against the top teams is a bonus. I think Morata is more consistent. Kane is the best striker in the league right now obviously.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

I'd pick both Morata and Kante over Lukaku and Pogba as of right now.

 

[Evilo]

I'd pick Lukaku over Morata.

 

[Live in the Now]

@Live in the Now before the season started.

I did yes. Kane has two more goals in all comps and one more in the league. At international level, Lukaku is a much better goal scorer. The only players who scored more than him in the final qualifying cycle worldwide are Ronaldo and Lewandowski. It is not definitive. They are also the same age, so inevitably their careers will be paired together in comparisons until they retire.

Pogba has better potential than pretty much any player. Insane physical tools, insane technical tools. To say he's only considered better because he can shoot is laughable.

This is one of the only reasons people think he's better though. As you said, he's incredibly inconsistent, which Kante is not.

 

[Evilo]

Then people are idiots. If you watch Pogba and get away with hey, he's decent, he has a good shot, then by all means, watch another sport.

 

[YNWA14]

I liked what Klopp had to say about Ox.

"I just like this player because he is already experienced but he is so open to get used to what we do and that is really nice. I'm happy, really happy, that he could make this decisive moment [scoring the third goal in Liverpool's win]. They were all decisive by the end but I would like to have this answer always when we concede a goal. It would make life easier.
"He needs to get used to the intensity that we ask. It's not that Arsenal didn't, they play fantastic football. But we are really on it with these counter-pressing things and the switch immediately to make the break. The problem is that we are all used to it and if you are not used to it, and you defend differently and you drop when they get the ball, that is a different thing.
"He knew when he came and we signed him that this will happen and we would ask for this and it is nice. But a lot of players are like 'yeah, yeah, yeah, I want' and he is like 'what do you want from me?' and he reacts. He will be a really important player for us."

He's definitely had some really nice looks at Liverpool so far and he's just getting up to speed. He looked really strong from midfield against West Ham and with his pace and instincts he's going to be a big player for us methinks. Hopefully he can stay healthy because he looks to have all the tools.

 

[Jersey Fresh]

I liked what Klopp had to say about Ox.



He's definitely had some really nice looks at Liverpool so far and he's just getting up to speed. He looked really strong from midfield against West Ham and with his pace and instincts he's going to be a big player for us methinks. Hopefully he can stay healthy because he looks to have all the tools.

40 goals on the horizon?

 

[YNWA14]

40 goals on the horizon?

I mean, he'll probably score more in the PL than West Ham as a team next season.