Premier League 2019-20 part II

[bleedblue1223]

I said stay classy Chelsea because it is a story about a Chelsea fan group. I didn’t pick a random club. And I stayed away from ‘Chelsea fans’ because I didn’t want to generalize the group. I did not intend for it to be taken that way. I agree with everything else

I'm sure you can see how it was misinterpreted, but if that's all it was no big deal. No reasonable person supports any of that stuff and we can all agree on that.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

That is not remotely equivalent.

This is a fan organization, whose stated goal of their existence is to represent the club openly discriminating against a group of people.

Indeed, people died at Heysel. Definitely not equivalent to one bloke with some misguided views.

 

[Rob]

Tough loss for Arsenal today @ Sheffield United. Emery says they didn’t deserve to lose though.

 

[hatterson]

Tough loss for Arsenal today @ Sheffield United. Emery says they didn’t deserve to lose though.

lol, why not? They didn't create anything of danger outside of Pepe's chance.

I guess you could argue they deserved a draw versus a loss, but it's a pretty dumb point for a coach to make in a press conference.

 

[koyvoo]

 

[maclean]

I just find it rich that anyone characterizes an entire fanbase for the actions of a minority. Especially when issues of racism in games or violence among supporters is so widespread throughout all fanbases and countries. How many times do we here stories about monkey chants directed at black players. You are missing the point if you are making it about specific fanbases, it's bigger than fans and club loyalty. You are naive if you think there is a club out there that doesn't have supporters that are racist, anti-LGBTQ, or whatever else.

Of course all fanbases are diverse, but certainly some clubs have certain tendencies and others different ones. You can like it or not, but every situation of an individual fan acting in a certain way helps inform the general perception of a team.

I can speak to the teams in Prague, Sparta has a reputation for having a lot of racists, though as the most popular team in the country they naturally have all kinds of fans, but if you're going to a game are you going to go in the supporter's section? Not if you don't want to be hanging out with hardcore hooligans. Slavia for whatever reason has a bit more of a neutral reputation and lots of people who consider themselves intellectuals prefer it, but at the end of the day they have a huge contingent of neo-Nazis, in my view they are just as racist as Sparta, but they are not viewed the same, and it's largely because of high-profile things that Sparta fans have done, the trouble they've got in. It is also the fact that when Slavia fans do racist things, the club condemns it more convincingly, whereas with Sparta you can tell the club whatever it says is actually weaker than its hardcore fans.

My local side Bohemians is the only club in the Czech Republic to largely profile as all-around tolerant and anti-racist but we also have racist fans, and in fact great numbers of fans who actually take offence at the club being painted as "leftist", appealing to "leaving politics out of football". They are bothered by the club's anti-racist profile the same way anti-racist fans are bothered by racism in the ranks of their respective fanbase.

So of course all fanbases have all kinds of people, but what is naive is thinking they don't also have a profile, as unfair as it can seem to the many people who don't agree with it.

 

[Jussi]

Carragher apologizes to Evra for defending Suarez:



Liverpool fans on this site...?

 

[Chimaera]

In which sense?

Do you want us to apologize for Suarez? He doesn't play for us, hasn't for a while now, and I don't excuse racism now or then. But I also know that only really two players know what was exactly said. If Evra feels it was a slur, then, that's his right to feel so, and I agree with Suarez having served punishment for that incident. The club got egg on their faces supporting him prior to the hearing, and that's been handled.

However, what I do also know is Evra is a clown. He kicked a freaking spectator. He's fought a groundsman. Do you want to apologize for him? He's certainly no saint. It's fine that Carra wants to apologize to Evra. That's whatever it is. I'm not sure how it has anything to do with us.

Maybe United fans should apologize for the idiot that was tossed out of Old Trafford Sunday.

 

[YNWA14]

 

[hatterson]

I'd be interested to have someone do an actual review for dives, not just bookings.

There's definitely many times over the last year and a half that players have dived and not been booked, and yesterday wasn't the only time a play was booked for diving despite it not being a dive.

Would probably also have to separate things like embellishment (feeling contact and making sure the ref knows it happened by being overly dramatic) and actual dives.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Of course all fanbases are diverse, but certainly some clubs have certain tendencies and others different ones. You can like it or not, but every situation of an individual fan acting in a certain way helps inform the general perception of a team.

I can speak to the teams in Prague, Sparta has a reputation for having a lot of racists, though as the most popular team in the country they naturally have all kinds of fans, but if you're going to a game are you going to go in the supporter's section? Not if you don't want to be hanging out with hardcore hooligans. Slavia for whatever reason has a bit more of a neutral reputation and lots of people who consider themselves intellectuals prefer it, but at the end of the day they have a huge contingent of neo-Nazis, in my view they are just as racist as Sparta, but they are not viewed the same, and it's largely because of high-profile things that Sparta fans have done, the trouble they've got in. It is also the fact that when Slavia fans do racist things, the club condemns it more convincingly, whereas with Sparta you can tell the club whatever it says is actually weaker than its hardcore fans.

My local side Bohemians is the only club in the Czech Republic to largely profile as all-around tolerant and anti-racist but we also have racist fans, and in fact great numbers of fans who actually take offence at the club being painted as "leftist", appealing to "leaving politics out of football". They are bothered by the club's anti-racist profile the same way anti-racist fans are bothered by racism in the ranks of their respective fanbase.

So of course all fanbases have all kinds of people, but what is naive is thinking they don't also have a profile, as unfair as it can seem to the many people who don't agree with it.

Maybe for me the difference is I just can't fully understand the fandom in countries in Europe that are much more homogeneous. I just don't have those types of experiences over here. Usually it's just drunk fans heckling other fans just because they support another team. There doesn't tend to be big racist chants or stuff, but I'm not denying that small stuff happens directed at players from time to time.

 

[Jussi]

Mightiest divers.

 

[Jussi]

In which sense?

Do you want us to apologize for Suarez?

Well several of you went to rather extreme lengths to defend him.

 

[Chimaera]

Well several of you went to rather extreme lengths to defend him.

The only defense I've ever given is that some words have different context and connotations in different places. Beyond that, it's hard to do a he said she said situation on a verbal incident. Suarez was rightly punished, and it's over at this point.

Suarez is a pretty reprehensible person on the pitch, having done plenty of stupid stuff.


I mean, I know what you're picking at. But there are plenty of clowns who have suited up for United (Evra being one of them) who you could be asked to defend.

 

[Stray Wasp]

Indeed, people died at Heysel. Definitely not equivalent to one bloke with some misguided views.

This is true.

Mind, I'm also bound to point out that Heysel was in May 1985, which means that even if we are to believe that Liverpudlians come into the world fully-formed and foaming at the mouth to do Italians harm, that tragedy was nothing whatsoever to do with any fan of the club under the age of 34.

Realistically, the Liverpool fans involved in the fatal charge are unlikely to be under 50 years of age now.

While we're on the subject of Chelsea and racism, here's a story of the club issuing life bans to racists. Three Chelsea fans face lifetime bans for racially abusing a fellow supporter

 

[S E P H]

Alexis has at least 90% of those.

 

[YNWA14]

Alexis has at least 90% of those.

A real cornerstone of the recent Arsenal teams that lad has been.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

This is true.

Mind, I'm also bound to point out that Heysel was in May 1985, which means that even if we are to believe that Liverpudlians come into the world fully-formed and foaming at the mouth to do Italians harm, that tragedy was nothing whatsoever to do with any fan of the club under the age of 34.

Realistically, the Liverpool fans involved in the fatal charge are unlikely to be under 50 years of age now.

While we're on the subject of Chelsea and racism, here's a story of the club issuing life bans to racists. Three Chelsea fans face lifetime bans for racially abusing a fellow supporter

At this point of time Chelsea and Liverpool are both massive corporate entities with global brands and supporters of all stripes. Any fan reputation going back to the 70s and 80s should mostly be disregarded. Liverpool fans are no more a rampaging bunch of thieving estate kids than Chelsea are a bunch of National Front skinheads.

 

[Savant]

Well several of you went to rather extreme lengths to defend him.

Carragher summed it up better than I could. It was a mistake. It was wrong and it’s obviously easier to say with the benefit of hindsight. Was trying to stand up for a player but it was like seeing the forest instead of the trees

 

[maclean]

Maybe for me the difference is I just can't fully understand the fandom in countries in Europe that are much more homogeneous. I just don't have those types of experiences over here. Usually it's just drunk fans heckling other fans just because they support another team. There doesn't tend to be big racist chants or stuff, but I'm not denying that small stuff happens directed at players from time to time.

Certainly. There really isn't much of an analogue for it in North American sports. In part perhaps because the nation itself is too young/diverse/transient (and these days even affluent), but also I would say it's due to the dominance of "major league" teams, which by their nature encompass a quite large geographical (and thus demographic) area. In Europe clubs began just as clubs formed so people could play and leagues emerged more organically, which remains enshrined in the promotion system, meaning clubs are tied more closely to their home neighbourhood, their history and their fans, without as much of the commercial bleaching prevalent in NA sports, though certainly the latter trend is there, particularly for the most commercial teams and the EPL in general.

 

[Savant]

Judge rules in favor of Nike over New Balance. Liverpool to wear Nike starting next season

 

[Chimaera]

There’s some crazy stuff in that hearing. NB was trying to create stores out of thin air, arguing they could sell kits at stores who were shoe only, saying they could match Nike’s reach and marketing.

Admittedly, it’s the rich getting richer, but NB can’t really match the store space and distribution alone that Nike can. Liverpool are taking less from Nike with the hope that the marketing and distribution will up sales to make more on the backend.

I’m happy because Nike stores near me carry soccer stuff. NB stores really only carry shoes and a bit of running gear. Sure, I can get stuff on the internet, but being a fellow of fluctuating weight, being able to try stuff on is sometimes useful when it often runs all over the place in sizes. I’ve spent significant coin on training wear stuff from LFC only to have it come in sizing for a much smaller person.

 

[Chimaera]

Oh, the particulars are 30 million pound, per, over five years. Which is low. But Nike is offering 20% of all LFC merchandise, which should be much higher than anything NB could offer. The suggestion is it could be worth closer to 70+ per season, if not higher if a kit does well or they go on another CL run and move more gear.

Nike has also spent a significant chunk in prepping the campaign to help push LFC gear. The talk is using “influencers” to help get it rolling. That’s whatever, but I’ll be interested to see it.

 

[Burner Account]

I've also heard that New Balance is very difficult for third-party retailers to get.

 

[YNWA14]

I'm not really happy about it. NB actually had some really nice kits and was with us when we weren't super successful and were willing to match the kit deal, now we'll get lame cookie-cutter kits from a company that is pretty questionable to begin with.

Also interesting:

A strange part of the case emerged when it appeared Liverpool were unaware of a term in the “long-form” Nike offer which stated minimum distribution promised fell away if the club failed to qualify for the Champions League group stages.

Mr Hogan says this has not been discussed at all with Nike.

Mr Oudkerk: “This is a contract worth hundreds of millions of pounds to you, you spent months negotiating it, and you are saying you have not even bothered to look at it, is that your evidence?

BH: “I don’t agree with that...that was not in the short form agreement and that has not been discussed at all.”