Premier League 2018-2019 Part II

[Say Hey Kid]

I want a one year ban on investigations involving the Big 2 (Man City and Liverpool). I just want to see them play each other next season, not hear about financial rules that I don't care about.

 

[phisherman]

Kinda like city now?

City still had to face offensive players like Kane, Auba, Laca, Salah, Mane. Besides Henry and RVN who else did Chelsea have to fear in their season?

 

[The Abusement Park]

City still had to face offensive players like Kane, Auba, Laca, Salah, Mane. Besides Henry and RVN who else did Chelsea have to fear in their season?

Rooney. Lampard. Pires. I mean I think you’re underrating some of the players from back then as well. Keane and Defoe were good players back then.

 

[Power Man]

 

[YNWA14]

Except for the best defensive team. Which both the teams mentioned are definitely better defensively while the difference offensively isn’t much, though still in city’s favor. Slightly.

I don't know how you can come to the conclusion that City is definitely worse defensively than those two teams (who both played a more defensive style) but say that the difference offensively 'isn't much'. This is the best 2 year stretch comparison between all three of these sides (using the two years you mentioned as the base, and then looking on either side of it). Goals for and goals against.

Manchester City 17-19
106 - 27 (+79)
95 - 23 (+72)

Chelsea 04-06
72 - 15 (+57)
72 - 22 (+50)

United 07-09
80 - 22 (+58)
68 - 24 (+44)

The league and football are both better now, as are the quality of players. The relative performances are not particularly close, tbh. Also as I posted in the other thread where someone said they were just 'consistent against the bad teams' City's point pace is actually better vs. the top 8 than it is against the rest of the league.

This is a completely different level of machine than anything the PL has had before.

 

[bleedblue1223]

It's not irrelevant though. Chelsea were spending near 100 million pounds with no FFP rules. And it's not like other teams had great offense in that era. Compare Andy Johnson, Jermaine Defoe, Jimmy Haiselbaink vs the likes of Aguero, Salah, Auba, Lukaku, Kane that EPL teams face now.

Henry/Pires/Ljungberg and Rooney/Scholes/Van Nistelrooy/Ronaldo

 

[Havre]

If you buy a club, your money is going into the club. If I buy Amazon stock, my money is technically being used by them, no matter how small it is. Sure, it's not their pet project to go out and buy a bunch of players like it is for City, but to ignore being owned by billionaires hasn't had an impact is kind of silly IMO.

This is getting more off-topic though. Don't really want to discuss Tottenham's ownership structure and how they were built. It's not really the point.

No. No money went to Spurs when ENIC bought it from Sugar. That money went to Sugar.

Sugar could have given away the club to a random person and the club would have been the same as today (assuming that person had ran it like Levy has).

Only thing Lewis and Levy might have done at some point is to offer guarantees. That I don’t know.

Now the team clearly should have been owned by its members. And I dread the day some random rich person buys it from Lewis and Levy, but that ship is sailed. And at least you will enjoy it when Neymar, Pogba and all these Instagram-stars end up playing for Spurs. Hopefully I’ll be dead by then.

 

[spintheblackcircle]

I love this guy so much...I want him to have a family, I felt bad watching him walking alone while everyone else has their families, but he's so great with the kids.

 

[bleedblue1223]

IThe league and football are both better now, as are the quality of players.

And to bring it back to my original point, this is it. Chelsea and City being taken over by billionaires and joining the traditional powers of United, Liverpool, and Arsenal has been great for the league. I want more of it, that's why I don't really like FFP, it keeps the low/mid level clubs in their lane for the most part.

 

[phisherman]

Henry/Pires/Ljungberg and Rooney/Scholes/Van Nistelrooy/Ronaldo

Players from just two other teams.

Versus now where there are elite talent in 5 other teams besides Man City plus very good talent on midtable teams.

Can you legitimate name some elite talent back then on Everton, Bolton, etc.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Players from just two other teams.

Versus now where there are elite talent in 5 other teams besides Man City plus very good talent on midtable teams.

Can you legitimate name some elite talent back then on Everton, Bolton, etc.

You were comparing apples and oranges. Players on mid-level teams at the time to players on the top teams today. The teams at the top in each period were loaded with talent. I agree the mid and lower table teams were not very good in comparison. It's still irrelevant to the point that the Chelsea team at the time was historically great defensively, and those players in today's league would still be great players. The point wasn't comparing accomplishments relative to each other, just that current City and Liverpool wouldn't run riots around that Chelsea team.

 

[S E P H]

This is why FBA should employ non-English refs for the EPL. Like Spanish refs should be in Germany, German refs in EPL, English refs in Spain, Italian refs in France, and French refs in Italy.

 

[YNWA14]

And to bring it back to my original point, this is it. Chelsea and City being taken over by billionaires and joining the traditional powers of United, Liverpool, and Arsenal has been great for the league. I want more of it, that's why I don't really like FFP, it keeps the low/mid level clubs in their lane for the most part.

Yeah it doesn't bother me (the spending). I'm also fine with rich owners coming in and buying other teams and bringing them to the top. I do feel for the teams that can't compete with that spending, but whether it's 2 teams or 6 teams that they are going to be massive underdogs against doesn't make a huge difference -- so if you can't bring down the giants to their level you may as well open up the playing field to whoever is willing to compete.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Yeah it doesn't bother me (the spending). I'm also fine with rich owners coming in and buying other teams and bringing them to the top. I do feel for the teams that can't compete with that spending, but whether it's 2 teams or 6 teams that they are going to be massive underdogs against doesn't make a huge difference -- so if you can't bring down the giants to their level you may as well open up the playing field to whoever is willing to compete.

A salary cap would be pretty much impossible IMO and any other revenue-sharing method wouldn't make sense because you'd want your top clubs be able to compete in Europe, so you don't really want to limit what they can do to increase domestic parity. Only other option left is to incentivize investment and spending on the non-big clubs.

 

[Stray Wasp]

It's not irrelevant though. Chelsea were spending near 100 million pounds with no FFP rules. And it's not like other teams had great offense in that era. Compare Andy Johnson, Jermaine Defoe, Jimmy Haiselbaink vs the likes of Aguero, Salah, Auba, Lukaku, Kane that EPL teams face now.

Am I allowed to compare Jermain Defoe of 2004-5, when he scored 13 in 35 EPL games, with Jermain Defoe of 2016-17, when he turned 34 during the season and scored 15 in 37 playing for a terrible, relegated, smelly, ugly and stupid sunderland team? (I'd mention Defoe in 2015-16, when he scored 15 in 33 scoring for a bad, smelly, ugly and stupid sunderland team did I not appreciate the vast evolution in the game in the aeons that have passed since then).

You belittle Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink (who by the way was a very good finisher with a howitzer shot) but have you already forgotten how many goals Glenn Murray has scored in the last two seasons? In 2004-5 he was scoring 2 in 19 for Carlisle United in the Conference, which presumably adjusts to scoring 1 goal from 17 appearances in the Staffordshire Sunday league ninth division in 2018/19 if I'm to swallow the hype.

The ironic thing is, there is a reason to say attacks were less potent in 2004/5 than now - but it was more a tactical issue that had begun the season before - the moment Abramovitch arrived at Chelsea everyone beyond Arsenal, Liverpool and Manchester United battened down the hatches and lowered their horizons. Negative midfields, lone strikers and a dependency on set-pieces became ingrained. It's no coincidence that Allardyce's Bolton went from being an outfit that barely survived in their first two seasons in the division to consistent top eight finishers - everybody else dragged themselves down to that level. (Note Liverpool finishing fourth with 60 points in 2003/4 and Sir David Moyes beginning his long road to ultimate glory by taking Everton to fourth with 61 points the season after).

2004/5 was the season that a 34-year old, utterly paceless Alan Shearer found himself used as a lone striker waiting for service from winger Shola Ameobi. Strange to say, Shearer's waits often proved lengthy. Newcastle's manager was Graeme Souness, showing all the strategic subtlety that would eventually lead to him throwing hissy-fits and pens in TV studios at the mere mention of the word 'tactics'.

In short, strikers outside the top handful of clubs in 2004/5 were frequently feeding on scraps.

 

[Stray Wasp]

In passing, now I dwell on the matter, isn't Jamie Vardy an upmarket Andy Johnson?

 

[Savant]

For all the people that said Liverpool and their fans would be insufferable if they won the league:

Classless Man City players should be ashamed of sick Liverpool chant

Outrage as City players sing about LFC fans being 'battered in the streets'

 

[Live in the Now]

It takes a special kind of sick to sing about Sean Cox.

 

[bleedblue1223]

So, the players were singing about the fans? Like, why?

 

[Live in the Now]

So, the players were singing about the fans? Like, why?

They're morons? I don't really know how to take this. Singing about a person who got beaten into a coma and has brain damage is absolutely sickening.

There's about a 1m shortfall in funding for his care. Regardless of how many people donate, it seems unlikely to reach the goal. The players should all be fined equally by the FA in order to make it whole. They have no problem fining players for stupid shit they said when they were 14.

I expect that from fans, but never from players.

 

[Stray Wasp]

So, the players were singing about the fans? Like, why?

This may be related to the old trouble of footballers and intelligent thought frequently being strangers.

 

[bleedblue1223]

They're morons? I don't really know how to take this. Singing about a person who got beaten into a coma and has brain damage is absolutely sickening.

There's about a 1m shortfall in funding for his care. Regardless of how many people donate, it seems unlikely to reach the goal. The players should all be fined equally by the FA in order to make it whole. They have no problem fining players for stupid **** they said when they were 14.

I expect that from fans, but never from players.

Even if it wasn't about him, not sure if we know for sure it's just a stupid thing to do. Yeah, if they take action on what they tweet as a teenager, this should have some serious consequences.

Even if it was just regular mocking, they should be ashamed.

 

[YNWA14]

Yeah that's pretty messed up. The thing is they probably look at the media attention and just think it's funnier.

 

[phisherman]

Am I allowed to compare Jermain Defoe of 2004-5, when he scored 13 in 35 EPL games, with Jermain Defoe of 2016-17, when he turned 34 during the season and scored 15 in 37 playing for a terrible, relegated, smelly, ugly and stupid sunderland team? (I'd mention Defoe in 2015-16, when he scored 15 in 33 scoring for a bad, smelly, ugly and stupid sunderland team did I not appreciate the vast evolution in the game in the aeons that have passed since then).

You belittle Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink (who by the way was a very good finisher with a howitzer shot) but have you already forgotten how many goals Glenn Murray has scored in the last two seasons? In 2004-5 he was scoring 2 in 19 for Carlisle United in the Conference, which presumably adjusts to scoring 1 goal from 17 appearances in the Staffordshire Sunday league ninth division in 2018/19 if I'm to swallow the hype.

The ironic thing is, there is a reason to say attacks were less potent in 2004/5 than now - but it was more a tactical issue that had begun the season before - the moment Abramovitch arrived at Chelsea everyone beyond Arsenal, Liverpool and Manchester United battened down the hatches and lowered their horizons. Negative midfields, lone strikers and a dependency on set-pieces became ingrained. It's no coincidence that Allardyce's Bolton went from being an outfit that barely survived in their first two seasons in the division to consistent top eight finishers - everybody else dragged themselves down to that level. (Note Liverpool finishing fourth with 60 points in 2003/4 and Sir David Moyes beginning his long road to ultimate glory by taking Everton to fourth with 61 points the season after).

2004/5 was the season that a 34-year old, utterly paceless Alan Shearer found himself used as a lone striker waiting for service from winger Shola Ameobi. Strange to say, Shearer's waits often proved lengthy. Newcastle's manager was Graeme Souness, showing all the strategic subtlety that would eventually lead to him throwing hissy-fits and pens in TV studios at the mere mention of the word 'tactics'.

In short, strikers outside the top handful of clubs in 2004/5 were frequently feeding on scraps.

How would you compare Defoe's talent level to the likes of the current attackers in the EPL?

And wouldn't part of the reason for their negative tactics is because other teams didn't have that much money to spend? Compared to now where a team like Bournemouth can throw 20 million pounds without worry for someone like Solanke?

They're morons? I don't really know how to take this. Singing about a person who got beaten into a coma and has brain damage is absolutely sickening.

There's about a 1m shortfall in funding for his care. Regardless of how many people donate, it seems unlikely to reach the goal. The players should all be fined equally by the FA in order to make it whole. They have no problem fining players for stupid **** they said when they were 14.

I expect that from fans, but never from players.

Have Liverpool and their players contributed?

For all the people that said Liverpool and their fans would be insufferable if they won the league:

Classless Man City players should be ashamed of sick Liverpool chant

Outrage as City players sing about LFC fans being 'battered in the streets'

Those are players. Not fans though.

 

[c9777666]

In retrospect, I wish Aguero had whiffed in 2012.