Discussion in 'Ottawa Senators' started by Stylizer1, Sep 26, 2013.
I think he will be the odd man out. He has shown the least out of the guys on the bubble.
He'll either be in Bingo or another NHL team.
He's not waiver exempt. It's either he makes the team or he goes through waivers to go to bingo.
Which is exactly what I said...
Last season I recall some experts saying, I believe before the start of the rookie camp, that it was a make or break year for him. I really like him and he has my full support but I just don't see room for him in the top 6 and he shouldn't be playing a bottom 6 unless he's willing to make that sacrifice. I'm not really sure how players handle that - like if they work that out when they join the team and state their intentions or if BM has annual meetings with them and says "I really see you more as a bottom 6 player in today's NHL". In any event I hope he stays with the organization but if he can't fit in anywhere I think it would be right of BM to deal him and give him a chance to play elsewhere.
Looks to be the very definition of a "Tweener".
He is definitely behind Conacher, Pageau, Stone and Da Costa at this point.
He could still be a good call up if we don't lose him on waivers. But I think he needs to learn how to be effective in a bottom six role.
If we lose Hoffman because we are keeping a waiver exempt player with the team (Stone, Pageau) then that could be bad asset management unless they have totally given up on the guy like they did with JOB.
On the other hand if it is a 2 out of 3 choice then he's up against Da Costa and DD. Who are the other 2-way non exempt players. If that was the case which 2 of 3 would you pick?
Based on this preseason plus the glimpses I've seen in the past (which I know many say doesn't count) I'd keep Da Costa as insurance against Spezza's health.
For me that leaves DD and Hoffman. Some might say DD types are a dime a dozen but I really like what DD brings to a bottom 6 like physicality, strong skating, good fore checking etc... He might even turn into a decent fighter one day if he avoids F. M. However, Hoffman has so much offensive potential it's hard to ignore his success in juniors and the AHL. The problem is Hoffman seems fragile and has shied away from contact by playing on the perimeter. He's no Conacher or Pageau that's for sure who are both smaller than him (height wise). If he played like them there wouldn't be any questions asked but he's done nothing to stand out above the other forwards or carve an identity in this preseason. I would still find it hard to just let him go for nothing based on pure potential since he's only 23.
Another thing to consider is that BM has wanted to build a bigger team yet we now have Conacher and eventually we all know Pageau too. Will we have too many sub 6' sub 190lbs players?
Here's a controversial thought: could it be time to part with someone else in a trade to make room for Hoffman. Could we trade Condra? He's smart defensively but there are quite a few guys who could fill his pk role adequately. Keeping Hoffman gives us a better forward to sub on the top 2 lines like Condra has done in the past but Hoffman might actually score sometimes. (Just a thought)
Looking ahead to next year what are the chances we don't re-sign Michalek, Can we afford to release a player who might have top 6 potential this year when he may be needed the next. Sure, Stone might step in there but the other winger prospects aren't close to being NHL top 6 ready so it's risky to put all our eggs in 1 basket.
Tough call in any case. That why the GM gets paid the big bucks.
People need to stop bringing up the idea of trading condra. He is NOT going anywhere.
I think Pageau makes him slightly more expendable but given what we would get back for him I agree, trading Condra is not the move. I'd rather lose Hoffman on waivers than give up Condra for a 3rd or 4th.
We would honestly not get much for condra too be honest.
no player on the team makes Condra expendable. there isnt one player in our organization, yet alone any other organizations, who makes Condra expendable. he is a very unique player who brings puck possession, strong PK, and while being a goal scoring black whole, can always make the correct play and maintain offensive zone pressure. If he was able to score goals, he would be Patrice Bergeron. Ill take a Patrice Bergeron who cant score, in my bottom 6 any day of the week and never let him go.
I guess what i am trying to say to one of the previous posters is.....no.....Pageau does not make Condra expendable
I knew that small part of my larger comment would be controversial with some.
I respect what you say that you feel Condra > than Hoffman + a 3rd or 4th pick. Hoffman has done little in preseason to contradict that. I really don't know myself because the sample size is so small. I'm strictly looking at potential. It's just that right now after JOB few forwards on the team are easily replaceable (let's never mind Kassian he has a role). Condra's fine as it goes but eventually I don't see him withstanding the push from younger, faster, better offensive players who can also play defensively. Maybe Hoffman isn't the guy to displace him. Who knows? Also Smith may be next to feel the hounds nipping at his heels after that but that's for a future discussion not this year.
Exactly my point.
Its funny how everyone freaks out about waivers every single year. We have a few more than usual this year, but nobody is going to claim Hoffman. Maybe a 0.5% chance. Someone would have to put him on their roster ahead of all their own prospects
it's not a big deal, he'll just go to bingo and get a couple shots as a call up
Hoffman will clear waivers, easily. What NHL team would give him a roster spot? Calgary? Florida? Most teams are full up... with their own home-grown tweeners to worry about.
If the Sens make a trade, I don't think it would be to create a roster spot for Hoffman. If Stone and Da Costa are the two other bubble players, then the Sens would more likely make a trade to accommodate them.
In regards to the whole assets management issue, maybe the Sens decide to trade Hoffman in order to ensure that they get some kind of asset in return. And if they want to create a roster spot for either Stone or Da Costa, maybe they throw Hoffman in a package to sweeten the deal.
But... those slappers from inside the blueline!!!
DD will clear waivers easily. The biggest waiver loss risk is SDC IMO.
I don't think the Senators feel the same way about Condra as you do. Tim Murray in an interview recently (I forget whether it was after Greening signed or around the time Cowen signed) stated that some players are "long term players" and are very deserving of long terms contracts and that others aren't and should definitely not be offered them. Condra got only a 2 year extension, so that is a pretty good indication that at this point he isn't expected to be in their ling term plans.
Look Condra is a useful player that provides some value to the organization, but the arguments that he is indispensable and that no one can make him expendable are pretty far fetched.
By himself probably not, maybe a 4th rd pick which is better than where we drafted him. But this is what I don't get, people refuse to see him get traded because they think he is so important to Ottawa defensively & yet they say he has little value. I guess he has value to our team but no one else? That doesn't make a lot of sense. He is very replaceable & IMO we have players already who would do just as good a job defensively & better offensively than Condra.
Couldn't agree more. That being said though the best deal that could be made right now for the Sens would be to move Hoffman, Da Costa & JOB in a package that would clear up some space since Ottawa clearly doesn't need any of them but at the same time don't want to lose them for nothing. I would think those three could maybe fetch a Tomas Fleischmann out of Florida who it is rumoured, they have been trying to get rid of. I imagine they would prefer a draft pick(s) for him rather than more players but maybe Florida could use three NHL ready prospects or at least the assets until some of their prospects are NHL ready.
Agreed. Not a big loss.
Why would we acquire Fleischmann? Melnyk just said today that we are already over budget. We can't afford to take on another $4.5 million dollar contract. Aside from that, one of the major issues we have right now is finding roster sports for some of our prospects like Pageau, Stone and Da Costa. Acquiring Fleischmann would eliminate the possibility of creating a roster spot for them.
I think Hoffman gets put on waivers and clears. I love his skating ability but he didn't show much this pre-season. If we could combine his skating with Mark Stone's hockey sense we'd have a helluva player. Unfortunately I see both as career AHLers. Good ones mind you.
They could of got job for free and the other 2 players have little value. That package does not get you fleischmann or anyone close to that.
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