Speculation: Predicting potential PTO's

kliq

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Dec 17, 2017
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I’m not sure about that. Svechnikov just missed an entire season he may need a half season or more to get back up to speed after the injury.

Agreed, Svechnikov needs to start the season in the AHL to bring his game back to speed. If he shows early that he is ready, we bring him up, no big deal.
 

newfy

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Jul 28, 2010
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Was going to post the same thing...
Wouldn’t be opposed to giving Nuke a shot at making the team on a PTO.

I still think we should be all over Gardiner on a short term deal though....

I read somewhere that Gardiner has a handshake deal in place with a team that needs to clear a spot/space for him before he can sign it. No idea if thats true or not but I highly doubt hes signing anywhere short term unless the dollar number is enormous
 
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Kingpin794

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Apr 25, 2012
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I’m not sure about that. Svechnikov just missed an entire season he may need a half season or more to get back up to speed after the injury.

He wasn't ready BEFORE he became injured. He's going to need the entire year before he's anywhere near ready for NHL duty. He needs to get back to 16/17 form and he was basically invisible in 17/18. IF he can get back to his A game, It's going to take more time than a lot of people are thinking.
 

Lil Sebastian Cossa

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I think Svech is as NHL ready as Hirose.
We don't need PTO players.

We've got 5 forwards to introduce in the next 160 games.
Let's start with 2 in October.

You don't have to sign the PTO player. There is literally no harm in bringing in PTOs for training camp. And hell, maybe you get lucky and Nichuskin finds the fountain of not being a bad hockey player. There should never come a time when you say "no thanks" to bringing in guys on PTOs.
 
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GBFP

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I read somewhere that Gardiner has a handshake deal in place with a team that needs to clear a spot/space for him before he can sign it. No idea if thats true or not but I highly doubt hes signing anywhere short term unless the dollar number is enormous

I think the prevailing opinion is that it's with Buffalo, but they need to dump Risto first.
 

ShelbyZ

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Teams also usually bring in PTO's to give them insurance to meet the vet minimum for preseason games.

For skaters, the Wings had 22 last season before they invited Jokinen (14/15 forwards, 7/8 dmen - depending on where you count Witkowski)

For the upcoming camp, they've got 23, but the group is thinner at forward (13 forwards and 10 defensemen). Biggest difference is that Zadina and Veleno counted last year (most recent draft 1st rounders) but won't this year and Seider, Cholowski and Hronek count for dmen this year.

I would imagine they probably bring in a couple of forwards for when they split the squad and keep some of the vets at home for the road games. They also end the preseason with 4 games in 4 nights, 3 of which are on the road.

At the very least, with Witkowski gone, I could see them bringing in someone like Rinaldo, Haley or McLeod on a PTO just to alternate with McIlrath in keeping the flies off during the preseason, when other teams are dressing guys of similar ilk.
 

MBH

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You don't have to sign the PTO player. There is literally no harm in bringing in PTOs for training camp. And hell, maybe you get lucky and Nichuskin finds the fountain of not being a bad hockey player. There should never come a time when you say "no thanks" to bringing in guys on PTOs.

Right. The "getting lucky" part is the thing we don't need.
Right now is a great time to say "no thanks" to PTOs.
 

Lil Sebastian Cossa

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Right. The "getting lucky" part is the thing we don't need.
Right now is a great time to say "no thanks" to PTOs.

Yeah, we totally don't need improvements in the talent on our roster. If they were to bring in Nichuskin and he became a top 6 player... I wouldn't be at all upset about that. If he's crap, you cut him. Seriously, we aren't at a point (nor should you ever be, really) that we can thumb our nose at good hockey players.

There is literally no downside to bringing in guys on PTOs

1) They let you hit the roster size amounts without worry and give you a cushion in case a guy gets a short term injury.
2) You aren't required to sign them to actual contracts to make your team, so if they suck, cut em.
3) If they actually show something, they're in a really weak bargaining position, so you get them for super cheap. If a guy like Nichuskin turns out to be an alright middle six forward again, all of a sudden you could look to flip him at the TDL or flip a guy like Rasmussen or Svechnikov or even an AA/Mantha, who you'd be clinging onto with a death grip otherwise, for an upgrade elsewhere.

I'd say that the Wings need a good dose of getting lucky, because they've been rolling snake eyes for going on a decade now. What's the difference between adding a guy like Nichuskin and he reforms into a 2nd line forward or you draft Robert Mastrosimone and he becomes a 2nd line forward? The Wings need talent.
 

MBH

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Yeah, we totally don't need improvements in the talent on our roster. If they were to bring in Nichuskin and he became a top 6 player... I wouldn't be at all upset about that. If he's crap, you cut him. Seriously, we aren't at a point (nor should you ever be, really) that we can thumb our nose at good hockey players.

There is literally no downside to bringing in guys on PTOs

1) They let you hit the roster size amounts without worry and give you a cushion in case a guy gets a short term injury.
2) You aren't required to sign them to actual contracts to make your team, so if they suck, cut em.
3) If they actually show something, they're in a really weak bargaining position, so you get them for super cheap. If a guy like Nichuskin turns out to be an alright middle six forward again, all of a sudden you could look to flip him at the TDL or flip a guy like Rasmussen or Svechnikov or even an AA/Mantha, who you'd be clinging onto with a death grip otherwise, for an upgrade elsewhere.

I'd say that the Wings need a good dose of getting lucky, because they've been rolling snake eyes for going on a decade now. What's the difference between adding a guy like Nichuskin and he reforms into a 2nd line forward or you draft Robert Mastrosimone and he becomes a 2nd line forward? The Wings need talent.

So who's job does he take?
At this point, why not just go with your own young talent instead of backseating them to someone who busted out of Dallas?

The Wings don't need Nischuskin.
They've already got more wingers than they can fit.
With the signing of Filppula, we've got more centers than we can fit.
We've also got more defenseman than we can fit.

The problem with Nischuskin as a 2nd line forward is space.
We've got Athanasiou at 2nd line forward.
Then we choose between Zadina, Svechnikov, Rasmussen and Hirose for the other job.

We have to push at least 1 one of those guys into the lineup this year, preferably 2.

On top of that, we've got a bunch of bottom sixers who aren't going to leave the team anytime soon.

If we wouldn't have signed Filppula, I'd see the value in given Brassard or Namestnikov a look - likely to fill the same kind of role Flip has. But we have Filppula, so there's no need.

If we hadn't signed Nemeth, I'd be all about trying out a LD. But we signed Nemeth.
 

ShelbyZ

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So who's job does he take?
At this point, why not just go with your own young talent instead of backseating them to someone who busted out of Dallas?

The Wings don't need Nischuskin.
They've already got more wingers than they can fit.
With the signing of Filppula, we've got more centers than we can fit.
We've also got more defenseman than we can fit.

The problem with Nischuskin as a 2nd line forward is space.
We've got Athanasiou at 2nd line forward.
Then we choose between Zadina, Svechnikov, Rasmussen and Hirose for the other job.

We have to push at least 1 one of those guys into the lineup this year, preferably 2.

On top of that, we've got a bunch of bottom sixers who aren't going to leave the team anytime soon.

If we wouldn't have signed Filppula, I'd see the value in given Brassard or Namestnikov a look - likely to fill the same kind of role Flip has. But we have Filppula, so there's no need.

If we hadn't signed Nemeth, I'd be all about trying out a LD. But we signed Nemeth.

It isn't like if someone makes the team on a PTO they have some NMC and have to be cemented to a roster spot or a regular spot in the line-up...

Someone has to sit in the pressbox too. We know they aren't going to put Abdelkader or Helm there, at least not to start the year. DLR is a possibility. But they certainly aren't going to put a young guy on the roster to regularly sit when they could play a top role for GR every night.

If they roll with 13 forwards, they basically have 3 spots open for Hirose/Rasmussen/Svechnikov/Zadina/Ehn/Turgeon/PTO/late UFA signing/Cleary/etc. Three young guys could make the team and push DLR to the pressbox, or two of them make it and they have someone that is better suited to sit in the pressbox or alternate sitting with DLR and work into the line-up.

If Nichushkin has a good camp and they sign him for $900k to work his way into the line-up as a #12/13F that doesn't have a guaranteed spot, how is that a negative? He makes an impact, they qualify him and make adjustments down the road including using him as a tradeable asset. If he sucks, he gets David Booth spot duty and leaves at the end of the year.

Or he has a good camp and gets signed because the team has a ton of injuries. He then keeps those young guys that also made the team from getting comfortable since they can easily be sent to GR if he's outperforming them. And if he doesn't, you waive/demote him (and he likely wants to terminate to go back home) and move on.

Steve Yzerman is trying to build a competitive team and isn't just going to limit himself to his own prospects to get back to that level.

And on the subject of Yzerman, the notion of "more wingers than they can fit!" is ironically hilarious. As I've pointed out in other threads, the dude was literally operating an NHL top 6 forward factory in Tampa and used the extras to trade for pieces like Bishop, the 1st rounder that got Vasilevsky, Sergachev and McDonagh. If he can get just ONE Dman like McDonagh or Sergachev doing the same in Detroit, then by all means sift through some NHL team trash bins as much as possible to find more.
 

Henkka

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So who's job does he take?
At this point, why not just go with your own young talent instead of backseating them to someone who busted out of Dallas?

The Wings don't need Nischuskin.
They've already got more wingers than they can fit.
With the signing of Filppula, we've got more centers than we can fit.
We've also got more defenseman than we can fit.

And then Yzerman goes and trades for Erne.
 
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MBH

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It isn't like if someone makes the team on a PTO they have some NMC and have to be cemented to a roster spot or a regular spot in the line-up...

Someone has to sit in the pressbox too. We know they aren't going to put Abdelkader or Helm there, at least not to start the year. DLR is a possibility. But they certainly aren't going to put a young guy on the roster to regularly sit when they could play a top role for GR every night.

If they roll with 13 forwards, they basically have 3 spots open for Hirose/Rasmussen/Svechnikov/Zadina/Ehn/Turgeon/PTO/late UFA signing/Cleary/etc. Three young guys could make the team and push DLR to the pressbox, or two of them make it and they have someone that is better suited to sit in the pressbox or alternate sitting with DLR and work into the line-up.

If Nichushkin has a good camp and they sign him for $900k to work his way into the line-up as a #12/13F that doesn't have a guaranteed spot, how is that a negative? He makes an impact, they qualify him and make adjustments down the road including using him as a tradeable asset. If he sucks, he gets David Booth spot duty and leaves at the end of the year.

Or he has a good camp and gets signed because the team has a ton of injuries. He then keeps those young guys that also made the team from getting comfortable since they can easily be sent to GR if he's outperforming them. And if he doesn't, you waive/demote him (and he likely wants to terminate to go back home) and move on.

Steve Yzerman is trying to build a competitive team and isn't just going to limit himself to his own prospects to get back to that level.

And on the subject of Yzerman, the notion of "more wingers than they can fit!" is ironically hilarious. As I've pointed out in other threads, the dude was literally operating an NHL top 6 forward factory in Tampa and used the extras to trade for pieces like Bishop, the 1st rounder that got Vasilevsky, Sergachev and McDonagh. If he can get just ONE Dman like McDonagh or Sergachev doing the same in Detroit, then by all means sift through some NHL team trash bins as much as possible to find more.

We already have a competitive situation.
Veleno could push for job (he'd have to push hard).
Hirose, Svechnikov, Rasmussen and Zadina are going to push for jobs.
There's likely only room for two of them.

Cholowski is far from a sure thing to make the team.

And Steve Yzerman doesn't have the talent in Detroit to turn a Namestnikov into a McDonough.
When you center Kucherov, you're going to score a lot of points.

This isn't Tampa.

We've just added Erne.
Let's assume 14 forwards.
1. Larkin. 2. Bertuzzi 3. Mantha
4. Athanasiou. 5. Nielsen. 6. Filppula
7. Glendening. 8. Helm. 9. Abdelkader.
10. Erne. 11.
Those are the locks. You know Blashill isn't going to pressbox those guys.
12. De La Rose
13. Ehn.
14. Zadina
15. Rasmussen
16. Svechnikov
17. Hirose
18. Kuffner
19, Smith.
20. Turgeon
21. Veleno.

Realistically, we were headed into this season with Hirose, Svechnikov, Zadina and Rasmussen battling for 2 open spots in the top 9.
With Abdelakder/Glendening/Ehn on line 4.
De La Rose and Turgeon extra.

I just don't see much value in Erne.
He's not a top 9er.
And You know LFG, Abby are locks for L4. I'd just as soon go with Ehn.
 

Gniwder

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If they roll with 13 forwards, they basically have 3 spots open for Hirose/Rasmussen/Svechnikov/Zadina/Ehn/Turgeon/PTO/late UFA signing/Cleary/etc.
LOL, just want to point out that Cleary was originally signed on a PTO on a much better Wings team, so sometimes teams (and players) do get lucky.
 
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ShelbyZ

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LOL, just want to point out that Cleary was originally signed on a PTO on a much better Wings team, so sometimes teams (and players) do get lucky.

I remember that as well. I was more alluding to his final PTO though. LOL
 

MBH

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LOL, just want to point out that Cleary was originally signed on a PTO on a much better Wings team, so sometimes teams (and players) do get lucky.

At the time, the Wings desperately needed players to fill slots for the minimum salary, or close to it.
Cleary. Samuelsson. Lilja. Osgood.
So we had talent. But our depth was shot because we had to shed our $4M a year veterans.
 

ShelbyZ

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At the time, the Wings desperately needed players to fill slots for the minimum salary, or close to it.
Cleary. Samuelsson. Lilja. Osgood.
So we had talent. But our depth was shot because we had to shed our $4M a year veterans.

There were a lot more too: Franzen, Williams, Lebda, Woolley. Even Chelios was making peanuts for a guy 3 years removed from being 1st team all start and 2nd in Norris voting, albeit way on the wrong side of 40YO.

That training camp was like a battle royal for spots at the bottom of the line-up. At forward, Franzen, Williams and Hudler and were battling with AAAA guys meant for GR like Don MacLean and Eric Manlow, as well as a bunch of PTO's like Cleary, Blake Sloan, Rem Murray and Dan LaCouture. Samuelsson actually came in after camp started when they were still trying to figure out how to fit Datsyuk in and that Michael Hackert dude that had scored a bunch of goals in the German league was going to miss camp. On D it was Andy Delmore battling with Jamie Rivers to stay in the NHL before Brett Lebda stole Babcock's heart, which allowed Delmore to get claimed on waivers and forced the team to bring back Jason Woolley when Kronwall went down longterm.

I remember being super invested in that camp after not having hockey for a year. I also took that September off before starting a new job in October and basically had nothing to do but argue about who should make the team on the Let'sGoWings forum LOL.

There was even some junior enforcer there whose name was literally "Robin Big Snake". I just looked him up and he put up 16G and 20A in only 8 games in some senior league last year. Maybe he's got enough left for another NHL PTO... :laugh::laugh:
 

Gniwder

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There were a lot more too: Franzen, Williams, Lebda, Woolley. Even Chelios was making peanuts for a guy 3 years removed from being 1st team all start and 2nd in Norris voting, albeit way on the wrong side of 40YO.

That training camp was like a battle royal for spots at the bottom of the line-up. At forward, Franzen, Williams and Hudler and were battling with AAAA guys meant for GR like Don MacLean and Eric Manlow, as well as a bunch of PTO's like Cleary, Blake Sloan, Rem Murray and Dan LaCouture. Samuelsson actually came in after camp started when they were still trying to figure out how to fit Datsyuk in and that Michael Hackert dude that had scored a bunch of goals in the German league was going to miss camp. On D it was Andy Delmore battling with Jamie Rivers to stay in the NHL before Brett Lebda stole Babcock's heart, which allowed Delmore to get claimed on waivers and forced the team to bring back Jason Woolley when Kronwall went down longterm.

I remember being super invested in that camp after not having hockey for a year. I also took that September off before starting a new job in October and basically had nothing to do but argue about who should make the team on the Let'sGoWings forum LOL.

There was even some junior enforcer there whose name was literally "Robin Big Snake". I just looked him up and he put up 16G and 20A in only 8 games in some senior league last year. Maybe he's got enough left for another NHL PTO... :laugh::laugh:
If you ask me, that's the way the bottom of the lineup should be every year. Let veterans, prospects, and PTOs battle it out. No guarantees based on salary or draft position.
 
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ShelbyZ

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If you ask me, that's the way the bottom of the lineup should be every year. Let veterans, prospects, and PTOs battle it out. No guarantees based on salary or draft position.

I agree. It is a bit fascinating that the Red Wings really trended down when they moved into that loaded roster, "too much depth is a good problem", more subtractions than additions in camp phase.

-You had the Presidents trophy team in 2006 with the aforementioned camp battle royal.
-For the next season, they lose a 40G Shanahan as well as Yzerman, and basically don't even sweat it. Greg Johnson gets signed for league minimum and then has to retire. They put Hudler and Kopecky on the roster, but without guaranteed spots in the line up and let guys like Filppula, Mat Ellis, Darryl Bootland and PTO's like Boyd Devereaux battle for a couple spots, before they settle on hanging onto Joey MacDonald as a #3 goalie to ride the pine when Osgood starts and rotate Hudler and Kopecky on the 4th line WHILE BRAD NORTON IS INTENDED TO DRESS EVERY GAME.
-The next year, Lang and Williams are gone, they move on from Bertuzzi and Calder, sign Drake for near league minimum and let Igor Grigorenko, Mark Hartigan, PTO Aaron Downey and Mat Ellis battle for a couple forward spots.

Fast forward 5 years and they've got way too many forwards and they're paying Jordin Tootoo 3x as much money and term to do what what Dallas Drake did for league minimum.
 
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