Confirmed with Link: Pre-season Roster Trimmed - Final Roster Set (OP Updated)

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Not as ridiculous as not having one of your best goal scorers/players not on your PP1 because he can be an asset on the PP2/ shoots the same way as Mantha. Leafs might as well have Tavares on the PP2 because Matthews shoots left and is a center or same with Point/ Stamkos because they both shoot right. C'mon.

Toronto probably should. Why the hell do you think Phil Kessel was on the third line in Pittsburgh? Or the Wings didn't stick with Yzerman-Fedorov-Shanahan when the Russian Five was here? Or why they KEPT trying to split up Datsyuk and Zetterberg at the top of the lineup. Or Pittsburgh doesn't put Crosby and Malkin together all the time. Or any other myriad of examples.

If you can get away with not having ALL of your best skaters on PP1 or, hell, not have all your best skaters burnt out by the end of your PP, then you do that. Teams like having balance whenever possible. If I can have PP1 and PP2 both be deadly, why on God's earth would I not do that?

But no, we should just load all of our best skaters on one line and **** the rest of them. You guys aren't talking reasonably. You have the thought in your mind that you want AA on PP1, because by god, he's a 30 goal scorer... while ignoring the fact that Mantha outperformed AA in what would be an equivalent role in roughly equivalent PP minutes last year (AA actually had more and went 3g,8a and Mantha 7g,6a) And that AA actually scored 27 goals at ES. I'd rather have the dude who can score in bunches at ES play at ES and give a slightly easier matchup to the facilitator that can help others score. And just because AA doesn't start at PP1 or whatever doesn't prevent him from putting in time on the PP, maybe even PP1. But no, AA should be guaranteed every minute and every advantageous line position, because, by god, he scored 30 goals.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Not as ridiculous as not having one of your best goal scorers/players not on your PP1 because he can be an asset on the PP2/ shoots the same way as Mantha. Leafs might as well have Tavares on the PP2 because Matthews shoots left and is a center or same with Point/ Stamkos because they both shoot right. C'mon.

Comparing Athanasiou to Tavares, Matthews, Stamkos or Point is fantastic. Look at those fancy Ivy League degrees, that’s pretty much the same as a high school diploma.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Comparing Athanasiou to Tavares, Matthews, Stamkos or Point is fantastic. Look at those fancy Ivy League degrees, that’s pretty much the same as a high school diploma.

That's needlessly antagonistic.

Toronto probably should have Tavares center PP2 or Matthews center PP2.

Because I'd surely be more scared of a one-two punch like

X-Matthews-Marner
X-Tavares-Nylander

Don't know the Leafs players well enough outside of the top to fill in the lines, but I sure as hell like that balanced lineup more than overloading the top (outside of the rare scenario late in a game where you have to.)

E: to bring it back to Detroit, they should look at it like
F1 needs to do X
F2 needs to do Y
F3 needs to do Z.

What guys do we have that fit X, rank them and put them there.
What guys do we have that fit Y, ditto
and so on.

 

[Retire91]

Hope Adam Erne has a late development curve it would be a nice surprise if he turns out to be a servicable bottom 6

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

Hope Adam Erne has a late development curve it would be a nice surprise if he turns out to be a servicable bottom 6

I have absolutely no issue with Green or Howard. I used to take issue with Howard, but it doesn’t matter now.

 

[vladdy16]

So wait, are you saying "I don't actually have an argument, just whatever you say is bull****" That's a new one.



No, you weren't dismissing mine. You were dismissing ANY argument that attempts to use similar logic to what the coaches and league use by saying it. There is no argument about "OMG, THESE LINES" that doesn't revolve around you not agreeing with how they're laid out. There is no "other possibility"... outside of things that literally wouldn't happen such as Abby, Ericsson, and others being banished to GR en masse. I mean, there are certain immutable truths of a situation that are just dead-ends to a true debate. I don't mean this as a straw man or saying it's your argument, but the core tenets here are that the Wings have 23 guys on the big roster. They're not going to make any more moves of shuffling them prior to game 1. So, it's all about how they piece together these 23 pieces and not any external signing or call up or whatever. So there really isn't much of a "keeping my options open" aspect here.

My own authority? What ****ing authority do I have? I don't think you know what the appeal to authority fallacy means. I'm a message board nobody. So... the fact that I say something carries no weight whatsoever. I was just saying that when you look at the moves there is a logic behind them that doesn't rely on "oh, it's Yzerman, he knows what he's doing."

Lastly, all of these items that you list are completely irrelevant when we are discussing the short-term implications of a rostered lineup for games 1 and 2 of the NHL season. If you were extending the debate further than that, there are all kinds of variables that change the argument at the drop of a hat. I mean, if you were talking later this season... a good deal of those guys at GR are going to get time at the NHL level, which will change the roster structure by necessity. If you were talking next season, then Ericsson is gone, Daley is gone, basically every defenseman who isn't DDK or a young guy is gone. Several forwards are also gone. But such discussions are for a later time because you or I can't possibly know what injuries will happen, what roster moves will be made, or whether a guy like Veleno will take off like a rocketship.

I was limiting my discussion to this week or this month in terms of roster discussion. And if someone is complaining about the lines and how it's so mean and rude that AA has to deign to play with LGD, that there is a logic to it that doesn't involve blindly trusting the coach. I'd probably do it also.

This is the largest strawman i have ever seen.

You are telling me what my opinion is, while referencing a smattering of other posters posts.

Before you went on another unsolicited, poorly formatted tirade, you seemed to get the point of my last post. I'm not making any specific arguments, i'm sharing my current perspective and both appreciating and offering a counter food for thought to those that dont see things how I do atm.

I'm not saying what you are saying is BS or that you're wrong. I dont even know what the point of your posts to me is yet. Negativity policing is all I can think of.

You don't seem capable of seperating my posts from others, or interested in being amiable or productive. If you want to have an argument, make a concise point and I'll respond. Or quote something i've said, and i can clarify, defend or concede.

 

[Hen Kolland]

That's needlessly antagonistic.

Toronto probably should have Tavares center PP2 or Matthews center PP2.

Because I'd surely be more scared of a one-two punch like

X-Matthews-Marner
X-Tavares-Nylander

Don't know the Leafs players well enough outside of the top to fill in the lines, but I sure as hell like that balanced lineup more than overloading the top (outside of the rare scenario late in a game where you have to.)

E: to bring it back to Detroit, they should look at it like
F1 needs to do X
F2 needs to do Y
F3 needs to do Z.

What guys do we have that fit X, rank them and put them there.
What guys do we have that fit Y, ditto
and so on.

Is it though? Listing 4 names who all have performed at a level such that a down season is still better than Athanasiou’s best. I’m not saying AA is a bad player, but he’s not world class.

I actually like Toronto’s powerplay primarily because they have players playing to strengths. And notice that Nylander and Kapanen are slotted on the second unit. They know what they want Nylander doing is too similar to Matthews, so the better player gets the top unit. That’s all we need is AA to slot the right dot or bumper on the second unit.

 

[NickH8]

Update on larkin:

 

[Ezekial]

I believe at this point we've all lost.

 

[RedMenace]

Yep, seems like this one has run its course.

 

[raymond23]

Larkin injury update today. Please don’t be long term I’d be so fricking sad

 

[lhsgolf19]

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

This is the largest strawman i have ever seen.

You are telling me what my opinion is, while referencing a smattering of other posters posts.

Before you went on another unsolicited, poorly formatted tirade, you seemed to get the point of my last post. I'm not making any specific arguments, i'm sharing my current perspective and both appreciating and offering a counter food for thought to those that dont see things how I do atm.

I'm not saying what you are saying is BS or that you're wrong. I dont even know what the point of your posts to me is yet. Negativity policing is all I can think of.

You don't seem capable of seperating my posts from others, or interested in being amiable or productive. If you want to have an argument, make a concise point and I'll respond. Or quote something i've said, and i can clarify, defend or concede.

Whatever, you're right. I'm wrong. You're good looking, I'm not attractive. I'm dumb, you're smart. I'm the worst, you're the best.

 

[raymond23]

thank god

 

[Konnan511]

Whatever, you're right. I'm wrong. You're good looking, I'm not attractive. I'm dumb, you're smart. I'm the worst, you're the best.

 

[lhsgolf19]

 

[ElysiumAB]

This roster looks bad.

 

[lhsgolf19]

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

You now reminded me of Miss Honey. Thank you. She's not Lea Thompson, but best part of that movie still.

 

[lhsgolf19]

 

[Ricelund]

This roster looks bad.

Well yeah, it's one of the worst rosters in the league. Easily.

 

[lhsgolf19]

 

[SirloinUB]

Man. Individually, I think Glendening, Filppula, Ehn, Nielsen, Erne, Helm, de la Rose, Abdelkader can all contribute something to a successful team but when these guys make up over half your roster you aren't going anywhere.

I know I'm beating a deadhorse. I also understand these things take time. But... its just depressing that we've been in some form of rebuilding since 2014 and it feels like we're still stuck in square 1.

 

[ShelbyZ]

It might just be some new coffee that we got at my office, but I feel like this team could actually overachieve this season.

-Last season, the team seemed to be at it's best when the D was either fully healthy or had Ericsson as the only guy that was out, which is exactly how they are entering this season. They now have Hronek in that mix, as well as a possibly improved Cholowski
-Three of their top 4 forwards (AA, Mantha and Bertuzzi) as well as bunch in the bottom 9 or so (Hirose, DLR, Ehn, Erne) are in contract years, heading into restricted free agency in an offseason where the team isn't expected to have to really shake them down to get under the cap...
-Howard gets a decent bonus if the team makes the playoffs, and probably still doesn't want to leave at the deadline
-Blashill is probably coaching to either keep his job here or quickly be considered for an NHL HC vacancy if Yzerman goes in a different direction

I think if enough of those factors work out, they probably still won't make the playoffs but could end up at least a .500 team.

 

[Ricelund]

I know I'm beating a deadhorse. I also understand these things take time. But... its just depressing that we've been in some form of rebuilding since 2014 and it feels like we're still stuck in square 1.

They have a ways to go but they're not stuck in square one. The Griffins are stacked and they have a good, young first line.