GDT: Pre-Season #2: Tue., Sept. 17, 2019, FLYERS at Islanders, 7:00 pm ET

Tripod

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He was making a "safe" play. He was flipping it out of the zone. He just ****ed it up. Royally.

Morin fought the puck the other night, but I still found myself saying about a half dozen times, 'Hagg doesn't make that play'. His execution can be hit or miss, but at least you can see he has some semblance of what to do with the puck.
You see that clip...then read:

Hagg Plays Well in Pre-season Loss

"Hagg did his part, contributing four hits and four blocked shots while playing in all situations. He took seven shots and put three on goal."-Sam C
 

Lindberg

Bennyflyers16 get a life
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It was an even worse play, as he turned it over right in front of his own net. Hagg’s was intercepted in the neutral zone.

No it wasn't. Did you even watch both plays? Hagg literally had time and space to make a decision with the puck while Ghost did not. You can't even see if the other two players were open.

Hagg has an easy pass to make and does the worst possible thing with it.

It is ridiculous that you can't even be objective about your analysis.
 
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Rebels57

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You see that clip...then read:

Hagg Plays Well in Pre-season Loss

"Hagg did his part, contributing four hits and four blocked shots while playing in all situations. He took seven shots and put three on goal."-Sam C

I f***ing hate him (Sam) and everything he stands for (taking a dream job for granted and phoning it in).
 
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Rebels57

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Theres a shift approx 7 minutes into the 1st that perfectly encapsulates Hagg.

Has time to pass to LW. Awful pass gets picked off. Forward attacks his side, Hagg backs all the way up to the bottom of the faceoff circle before yielding the shot.

Hes the worst defensemen in the NHL.
 

GapToothedWonder

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I couldn't have said it better, so I won't even try. I don't know why so many people have a love affair with NAK, I just don't see him making the NHL team.
Hart kept them in the game while he was playing, as soon as he came out Berube looked mediocre.
That's how I've seen the first two performances by this team.....mediocre.
I'm not expecting miracles from the coaching staff, but I want them to be more aggressive on the offensive side.

It's not a love affair of NAK or any certain players. It's a issue with the systematic issue of playing players with no long term upside during a time period where the team needed to be evaluating young talent and moving towards the future, even if that young talent had a very slim chance of reaching an impactful level of play.
 
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GapToothedWonder

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Literally not even close to the same play. Hagg had zero pressure and completely screwed it up.

Yeah Myers decision to put Ghost in that spot is also pretty terrible. But I would still rather see Ghost chip that along the glass to the left winger down the ice once he has been hung out to dry.

Or better yet a system that doesn't create such a massive gap between our forwards and defenceman while also somehow not creating passing lanes in all that space.
 

Starat327

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No it wasn't. Did you even watch both plays? Hagg literally had time and space to make a decision with the puck while Ghost did not. You can't even see if the other two players were open.

Hagg has an easy pass to make and does the worst possible thing with it.

It is ridiculous that you can't even be objective about your analysis.

Its impossible to be objective in analysis when you have an objective in your analysis.
 

deadhead

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It's not a love affair of NAK or any certain players. It's a issue with the systematic issue of playing players with no long term upside during a time period where the team needed to be evaluating young talent and moving towards the future, even if that young talent had a very slim chance of reaching an impactful level of play.

A time period when the team made the playoffs 3 of 5 seasons and fell short last year primarily b/c the goalies imploded like the drummers on Spinal Tap.

That makes it tough, you gonna tell Giroux that you're giving up on the season to audition some marginally talented prospects?
 

deadhead

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When its nigh impossible that they'd be any worse than some of the players we were trotting out? Yes.

If that was true, they'd be playing.
They did play a lot of young scrubs, maybe you've forgot Weal, Cousins, Luby, Leier, Akeson, Hagg.
 

Starat327

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If that was true, they'd be playing.
They did play a lot of young scrubs, maybe you've forgot Weal, Cousins, Luby, Leier, Akeson, Hagg.

No, I didn't forget. But if you're not willing to take a chance that NAK, who played well in the AHL, could be better than any of them (Save for Hagg, although id probably trust NAK over Hagg on D as well), when they are clearly bad, thats more telling of the decision making process than the players, in my opinion.
 

deadhead

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That's because NAK is trying to make the 2019-20 Flyers, not the 2016-17 rebuilding depleted roster.
NAK hasn't shown he's better than Twarynski, for example (their careers have been very similar so far with NAK a year ahead).
He's had a couple solid AHL seasons, uh, so did Bailey, how'd he work out?

I have no problem with a HC going with a marginal veteran over a marginal kid with limited upside, it's one thing to live with growing pains with TK, but why bother with NAK? NAK isn't the next Sharp or Williams, who had shown more at the same age.

That's not an endorsement of Stewart, Andreoff, Gabriel, et al, rather, it makes sense for a GM to defer to the HC on players that aren't future core performers - if a veteran makes the HC more comfortable, go with the veteran.

That's different than trading top young prospects for veterans to make your HC happy, short-term gain for franchise suicide.
 
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Starat327

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Happy to agree to disagree here. In a time when your GM indirectly acknowledges he's rebuilding, and is giving you unwavering support, you get the leeway to try things out that may not work. If the idea was to build to the future, you should be identifying what pieces work for the future, not plugging in vets who have no future. No one expected NAK to be a Sharp or Williams (im not sure why we always have to go to extremes in comparisons, but i digress), but its perfectly rational to think he could have been/ still could be a useful 4th liner. But we dont have any data to make that decision now because we decided that playing players like Vandevelde who had no NHL future who were "marginally better" (i cant say that without laughing) instead.
 
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deadhead

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My point is if NAK turns out to be a decent 4th liner for another team, we'll just plug in Twarynski or someone else.
It's just not a big deal, and it's rational for a HC to prefer a veteran who he thinks will be better for team chemistry.
It makes no sense to give NAK a job because he's 22 instead of say a 26 year old veteran when both may be gone in a year.

That being said, NAK has the inside track for the job, but it's his to win, not to be gifted.
The decision should be made based on AV's preferences.

My suspicion is that Rubtsov has a better shot than NAK, though NAK may be kept as a 13th forward.
If they don't deem Rubtsov ready, won't surprise me if Fletcher trades for a veteran 4C with one year on his contract, and moves Laughton to LW.
 

baudib1

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The issue isn't that NAK can't be Sharp or Williams. Why can't he be Cirelli or Joseph though? There's no reason he can't.

The Flyers have been great at drafting for years. Last year they had 1 forward on the team they drafted after the first round (Lindblom).

Tampa Bay had 7, that's not counting Gourde. To pick an average team at random, Columbus had 4. The time for the Flyers to start giving these guys chances was three years ago.
 
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Ghosts Beer

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That's because NAK is trying to make the 2019-20 Flyers, not the 2016-17 rebuilding depleted roster.
NAK hasn't shown he's better than Twarynski, for example (their careers have been very similar so far with NAK a year ahead).
He's had a couple solid AHL seasons, uh, so did Bailey, how'd he work out?

I have no problem with a HC going with a marginal veteran over a marginal kid with limited upside, it's one thing to live with growing pains with TK, but why bother with NAK? NAK isn't the next Sharp or Williams, who had shown more at the same age.

That's not an endorsement of Stewart, Andreoff, Gabriel, et al, rather, it makes sense for a GM to defer to the HC on players that aren't future core performers - if a veteran makes the HC more comfortable, go with the veteran.

That's different than trading top young prospects for veterans to make your HC happy, short-term gain for franchise suicide.
Exactly. Getting worked up over NAK is ridiculous. It’d be like getting worked up over Taylor Leier. It’s all because NAK was a 2nd rd pick. But there are a zillion NAKs out there. I completely defer to the coach as to which depth forwards he thinks best fit his systems & goals.
 

deadhead

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The issue isn't that NAK can't be Sharp or Williams. Why can't he be Cirelli or Joseph though? There's no reason he can't.

For the same reason the 3 players TB drafted ahead of Cirelli or Joseph aren't playing for them.
Sometimes you hit on a real player in the middle rounds (we found Lindblom), but most don't pan out.
Cirelli and Joseph didn't become NHL players because TB gave them TOI, they got TOI because they were NHL players.
If NAK wins AV's confidence, he'll make the team and get TOI - it's a simple as that.
 

Starat327

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My point is if NAK turns out to be a decent 4th liner for another team, we'll just plug in Twarynski or someone else.
It's just not a big deal, and it's rational for a HC to prefer a veteran who he thinks will be better for team chemistry.
It makes no sense to give NAK a job because he's 22 instead of say a 26 year old veteran when both may be gone in a year.

That being said, NAK has the inside track for the job, but it's his to win, not to be gifted.
The decision should be made based on AV's preferences.

My suspicion is that Rubtsov has a better shot than NAK, though NAK may be kept as a 13th forward.
If they don't deem Rubtsov ready, won't surprise me if Fletcher trades for a veteran 4C with one year on his contract, and moves Laughton to LW.

To be clear, I'm 100% on board with NAK earning his spot. I dont think he should be given this spot because hes paid his dues, been around longer, or draft pedigree (such an insinuation is laughable, but given the source, im not surprised). The part in question is what was used to make the determination that NAK didnt earn his spot? He had a good showing in the AHL, and wasnt given much of a chance to prove he could be a functional NHL player because we were more worried about playing guys like Weise.

I wont claim to know what goes on in the line up, and i understand that not every decision is going to be 100% "who is the better player". But the general idea seems to be that "the HC made the decision, and he knows best" when weve got some pretty clear evidence that the HC clearly does not always know best. It's ok to call that out and criticize that.
 

dragonoffrost

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Its impossible to be objective in analysis when you have an objective in your analysis.
tenor.gif
 

baudib1

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For the same reason the 3 players TB drafted ahead of Cirelli or Joseph aren't playing for them.
Sometimes you hit on a real player in the middle rounds (we found Lindblom), but most don't pan out.
Cirelli and Joseph didn't become NHL players because TB gave them TOI, they got TOI because they were NHL players.
If NAK wins AV's confidence, he'll make the team and get TOI - it's a simple as that.

Cirelli and Joseph have essentially the same or worse juniors/AHL production as NAK. I've said this many times before.

Tampa just gives their second-tier prospects more chances to succeed and play. Arguing that this is NAK's fault for not winning a job is ludicrous.
 

hatcher

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Exactly. Getting worked up over NAK is ridiculous. It’d be like getting worked up over Taylor Leier. It’s all because NAK was a 2nd rd pick. But there are a zillion NAKs out there. I completely defer to the coach as to which depth forwards he thinks best fit his systems & goals.
Whats a Kubel again? Is that a player?
 

Lindberg

Bennyflyers16 get a life
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Yeah Myers decision to put Ghost in that spot is also pretty terrible. But I would still rather see Ghost chip that along the glass to the left winger down the ice once he has been hung out to dry.

Or better yet a system that doesn't create such a massive gap between our forwards and defenceman while also somehow not creating passing lanes in all that space.

Its still not a good play by Ghost but its hard to see in the replay what exactly happened on the play. Looks like the puck hit the TML player and came down around his stick.

What I find strange is how often the offensive players escape ridicule for poor positioning of outlet passes. If the players aren't there to support the correct puck movement, a lot of bad things are going to happen.
 
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