GDT: Pre-6: Bruins 4 at FLYERS 3, Monday, Sept. 24, 2018, 7:00 p.m. ET

[orangey]

"By god hatcher's broken Gritty in two."

RIP Gritty.

 

[Tripod]

He stagnated long ago. He hasn't gotten any better in multiple years.

That's why the scouting reports are off... everyone around him improved and he stayed at the same level as back then. He could probably still look good against those junior teams, but in the NHL he's one of the worst.

And that's the thing. Certain people talk as if Hagg gets grief for no reason. No, he earns it. Personally, I WANT him to be really good. I wish he was because then we would be better. I WISH he was great defensive Dman. But he isn't. He hits, yup. But rarely does he hit a guy with a puck, separating them, leading to a turnover. He hits the guy after backing in and after that guy has already made a play.

He scored that 1 nice goal last year that gives some people hope, but Grossmann, Shelley, etc... did too.

He has looked worse this pre-season than last pre-season & reg season.

 

[Bruckuss]

I see Elliot and Stolarz on the Flyers site for projected tandem, but thought I heard somewhere Hart was in again tonight? (maybe from his post game vid?)

Was hoping to see Hart again for obvious reasons

 

[Tripod]

I watched that PPV....it was the best!

 

[deadhead]

Honestly, the only reason he is playing now is because Hak is a HUGE proponent of hitting and "playing large" (whatever the hell that means). Myers has looked fantastic so far this preseason. Be a damn shame if he lost his spot.

Actually, some of it has to do with MacDonald and Sanheim being injured, doesn't make sense to run Provorov and Ghost into the ground in the preseason.

Myers hasn't looked fantastic, he's looked as expected, big, mobile, good shot, still a bit clueless in his D-zone.

If he's sent down it won't because of some fantastical Hakstol preference (since Myers has hit and played as large as Hagg in the preseason), but because Hextall thinks he needs more seasoning and would rather have him playing more minutes in a bigger role in the AHL until he's ready.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

Instead of hating we should all embrace gritty!!! It's like we have our own flyers flavored Frankenstein.

 

[Magua]

Sounds like Farmer is in tonight. Save the day.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I'd bench press that fat bastard and throw him off the top deck . Jesus it's getting worse by the day that organization.

Would you like Gritty better if he was a juicer rather than a user?

 

[deadhead]

I can live with MacDonald - Hagg/Folin as my 3rd pair until January if need be.
Hagg and Folin are #7 defensemen, but we're used to that, MacDonald is a solid 3rd pair guy, just getting paid like a 2nd pair defenseman.

MacDonald - Myers would be preferable, and pairing with MacDonald may be one point in favor of keeping Myers, whereas if he had to pair with Hagg, uh, maybe not.

It's pretty obvious we're not making a Cup run until Hart (and maybe Sandstrom) are ready, as good as this team was with really lousy goalie play the second half of last year, those lousy goalies were totally exposed in the playoffs.

So I'm on board with Hextall being a little conservative with player development right now, because I don't think it's going to be an issue by say February or March.

 

[Tripod]

I can live with MacDonald - Hagg/Folin as my 3rd pair until January if need be.
Hagg and Folin are #7 defensemen, but we're used to that, MacDonald is a solid 3rd pair guy, just getting paid like a 2nd pair defenseman.

MacDonald - Myers would be preferable, and pairing with MacDonald may be one point in favor of keeping Myers, whereas if he had to pair with Hagg, uh, maybe not.

It's pretty obvious we're not making a Cup run until Hart (and maybe Sandstrom) are ready, as good as this team was with really lousy goalie play the second half of last year, those lousy goalies were totally exposed in the playoffs.

So I'm on board with Hextall being a little conservative with player development right now, because I don't think it's going to be an issue by say February or March.

Well of course, because points don't matter at the beginning of the year.

 

[deadhead]

Because young players who struggle don't help you garner points.

Flyers were a much better team with MacDonald and without Sanheim last season.

Now I don't think it was that simple (getting Patrick healthy was also key, and even god forbid, playing Lehtera over Leier), but they did get better when they took Sanheim out of the lineup. And Sanheim was helped by a month in the AHL to get his head together instead of continuing to flounder at the NHL level.

I don't see how "rushing" a prospect helps a team, now the $64K question is when is a player ready? Unfortunately, preseason doesn't always make that clear because the quality and intensity of play is 2 notches early, and 1 notch later in preseason, under regular season play. Vorobyev has done everything he can to show he's ready, in the case of Myers, he's shown enough that he MIGHT be ready, but that's Hextall's call.

 

[bennysflyers16]

Well of course, because points don't matter at the beginning of the year.

And Farmer IS NOT Playing 3rd pair minutes, ZERO chance.

 

[Striiker]

And that's the thing. Certain people talk as if Hagg gets grief for no reason. No, he earns it. Personally, I WANT him to be really good. I wish he was because then we would be better. I WISH he was great defensive Dman. But he isn't. He hits, yup. But rarely does he hit a guy with a puck, separating them, leading to a turnover. He hits the guy after backing in and after that guy has already made a play.

He scored that 1 nice goal last year that gives some people hope, but Grossmann, Shelley, etc... did too.

He has looked worse this pre-season than last pre-season & reg season.

Exactly right.

We don’t pick “scapegoats” out of thin air... despite what the contrarians like to suggest.

There’s a very clear pattern.

The “scapegoated” players who get hate (Macdonald, Hagg, Manning, Lehtera, Filppula, Vandevelde, etc) are all awful players who hurt the team.

The “infallible” players who get defended (Giroux, Voracek, Ghost, Konecny, etc) are all great players who help the team.

We don’t sit here, pick a player like Hagg to hate on at random, and decide that they’re bad. We hate the players BECAUSE they’re bad.

And the inverse is true. We want Sanheim in because he helps the team win. We didn’t just pick his name out of a hat and decide we were going to defend him.

Same thing with the coach. Nobody wants him to be bad. He’s hated because he is.

 

[Tripod]

Because young players who struggle don't help you garner points.

Flyers were a much better team with MacDonald and without Sanheim last season.

Now I don't think it was that simple (getting Patrick healthy was also key, and even god forbid, playing Lehtera over Leier), but they did get better when they took Sanheim out of the lineup. And Sanheim was helped by a month in the AHL to get his head together instead of continuing to flounder at the NHL level.

I don't see how "rushing" a prospect helps a team, now the $64K question is when is a player ready? Unfortunately, preseason doesn't always make that clear because the quality and intensity of play is 2 notches early, and 1 notch later in preseason, under regular season play. Vorobyev has done everything he can to show he's ready, in the case of Myers, he's shown enough that he MIGHT be ready, but that's Hextall's call.

You know what also doesn't garner point? Shitty older players.

If only unskilled guys were held to the same standard as the skilled guys. They are allowed to be shit without issue from Hak. And as we have seen, he goes out of his way to PRAISE the shit players even after having shit games.

 

[deadhead]

As usual, a gross exaggeration.

TK and Voracek are not great players by any measure, they're good players with TK having upside left, Voracek is what he is.
Giroux had a great season, his first in five years, Couts finally got the recognition he's deserved for three seasons.
Ghost finally became an all around defenseman despite his physical limitations, Provorov is still a work in progress.

The "scapegoated" players were not awful players who hurt the team, we've seen Rinaldo in action, let's get real!
They were marginal players who were replacement level or slightly below, replacing other scrubs.
When Gudas returned and MacDonald got healthy, Hagg's minutes were reduced to 15 minutes a night.
Hagg basically replaced Streit/Schultz, Sanheim tried to replace MDZ.
VdV was replaced by a combination of Lehtera/Leier, PEB by Laughton.
MacDonald is ranked around 120th league wide by Corsica. He's a competent veteran, not pretty, but he has value (just not $5M/yr).

It's hard to build and maintain depth in the NHL, the draft and salary cap work against that.
Even Lavi's best teams had scrubs on the 4th lines and 3rd defensive pairs.
So harping about the limitations of limited players is kinda silly.

 

[Tripod]

Exactly right.

We don’t pick “scapegoats” out of thin air... despite what the contrarians like to suggest.

There’s a very clear pattern.

The “scapegoated” players who get hate (Macdonald, Hagg, Manning, Lehtera, Filppula, Vandevelde, etc) are all awful players who hurt the team.

The “infallible” players who get defended (Giroux, Voracek, Ghost, Konecny, etc) are all great players who help the team.

We don’t sit here, pick a player like Hagg to hate on at random, and decide that they’re bad. We hate the players BECAUSE they’re bad.

And the inverse is true. We want Sanheim in because he helps the team win. We didn’t just pick his name out of a hat and decide we were going to defend him.

Same thing with the coach. Nobody wants him to be bad. He’s hated because he is.

Yup.

I was 100% behind the hiring of Hak because I felt him being used to coaching 18-22 year olds would be very good for us. I thought he would be more of a "teacher" type.

Instead, Hak himself says he needs to be a better communicator and I have said many times, his biggest issue is that he can not adapt on the fly. If something isn't working, he keeps trying it. He chases bad matchups for us at times. He can't get out of his own way.

He has not shown me that he can out-coach the opposition. And that matters in a playoff series.

 

[Alchemy]

I expected everyone to be all over Gritty. You guys didn't disappoint.

 

[Alchemy]

I just don't see how at this point Lehtera makes the roster. He's cooked.

 

[BernieParent]

I expected everyone to be all over Gritty. You guys didn't disappoint.

Actually, I think Gritty is all over us.

Excuse me, please, I have to go and shower, exfoliate, and get a good delousing.

 

[hatcher]

Would you like Gritty better if he was a juicer rather than a user?

Jesus what a terrible idea and then f*** it up making that kinda outfit lol.

 

[KrazyKat]

f***. if hart isnt playing, i honestly dont feel like watching.

 

[Adtar02]

Actually, some of it has to do with MacDonald and Sanheim being injured, doesn't make sense to run Provorov and Ghost into the ground in the preseason.

Myers hasn't looked fantastic, he's looked as expected, big, mobile, good shot, still a bit clueless in his D-zone.

If he's sent down it won't because of some fantastical Hakstol preference (since Myers has hit and played as large as Hagg in the preseason), but because Hextall thinks he needs more seasoning and would rather have him playing more minutes in a bigger role in the AHL until he's ready.

Which is great considering he has out played hagg in all three zones. If he is sent down it’s cause hexy wants him playing and hak has indicated he will six others over him. That’s it

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

I'd bench press that fat bastard and throw him off the top deck . Jesus it's getting worse by the day that organization.

Seriously, if anyone wants to know the greatest post in the history of this board, it's this one. Killing me, Mango, ****'s sake

 

[Magua]

 

[deadhead]

Which is great considering he has out played hagg in all three zones. If he is sent down it’s cause hexy wants him playing and hak has indicated he will six others over him. That’s it

I'm sure Hextall and Hakstol discuss this, and it's probably more like the kid isn't ready for a lot of responsibility, so if he's up, he's 3rd pair with MacDonald, playing 15 minutes a night at best ES, and either Myers or Sanheim on the PK. Whereas in the AHL, he'll be on the PP1, the PK and play 20+ minutes a night.

So which would be better for his development?