Line Combos: Powerplay Zone Entries

[ChaosAgent]

Although our PP1 is clicking overall, I cannot be alone in thinking that they are below average (at best) in cleanly entering the zone. Way too many straight-up clears out.

If I'm not alone, is the issue scheme or players? To me we have become way too focused on the stupid-drop-pass, Sid and Geno make way too many pointless lateral passes when crossing the blue line...and Jake Guentzel has absolutely no idea what he is doing in this part of the game. Like, for as terrific of a player as he is, this is an area that he doesn't "get." He keeps on throwing the puck softly around the wall to be cleaned up and cleared by the weak side D-Man.

I would consider removing Guentzel from PP1 in favor of Matheson or Rakell for starters, but I also think schematically things are stale on the entries.

Is this mountain out of a molehill? What say y'all?

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[vodeni]

Although our PP1 is clicking overall, I cannot be alone in thinking that they are below average (at best) in cleanly entering the zone. Way too many straight-up clears out.

If I'm not alone, is the issue scheme or players? To me we have become way too focused on the stupid-drop-pass, Sid and Geno make way too many pointless lateral passes when crossing the blue line...and Jake Guentzel has absolutely no idea what he is doing in this part of the game. Like, for as terrific of a player as he is, this is an area that he doesn't "get." He keeps on throwing the puck softly around the wall to be cleaned up and cleared by the weak side D-Man.

I would consider removing Guentzel from PP1 in favor of Matheson or Rakell for starters, but I also think schematically things are stale on the entries.

Is this mountain out of a molehill? What say y'all?

agree on Jake 100%,

 

[ColePens]

It's a needed thread BUT we aren't at practice so it's tough to see.

I think if an team going into the postseason watches film on us, it should be relatively easy to stop our breakout. LIterally let Letang do whatever he wants. He's not taking it. He will drop it every time. So just let him skate like a fool and worst case just attack at the blue.

 

[ChaosAgent]

It's a needed thread BUT we aren't at practice so it's tough to see.

I think if an team going into the postseason watches film on us, it should be relatively easy to stop our breakout. LIterally let Letang do whatever he wants. He's not taking it. He will drop it every time. So just let him skate like a fool and worst case just attack at the blue.

We do know PP2 does better on entries. I think it simply has more speed. Come in with speed, back off and spread out the PK.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Part of the issue is we're so predictable and we do it with so little speed.

Teams that are good at zone entries do it by using speed and backing defenses in because if the defense doesn't back in, they'll get burned. With the methodical (and predictable) approach on ours, teams can stand them up 4 guys across the blueline because there's zero chance our guys can fly past them with speed.

And has been mentioned, there's no variety. Letang never just carries it straight in if the PK is set for the drop back. It's like he's part of NHL22 where it's literally programmed into his code that that's what he does and can't deviate from it.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Nylander is pretty good at this. Bring him up solely for this purpose. Makes total sense.

 

[Zirakzigil]

Our PP entries have always been horrible when Sid, Geno and Letang are healthy. They get too cute with the puck. Carry it in with speed or dump and chase. Ive always been of the opinion that Sid and Geno should be on separate units build around themselves. We have the horses to do that now, Letang on one, Maths on the other, but not the will to do it.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

Although our PP1 is clicking overall, I cannot be alone in thinking that they are below average (at best) in cleanly entering the zone. Way too many straight-up clears out.

If I'm not alone, is the issue scheme or players? To me we have become way too focused on the stupid-drop-pass, Sid and Geno make way too many pointless lateral passes when crossing the blue line...and Jake Guentzel has absolutely no idea what he is doing in this part of the game. Like, for as terrific of a player as he is, this is an area that he doesn't "get." He keeps on throwing the puck softly around the wall to be cleaned up and cleared by the weak side D-Man.

I would definitely consider removing Guentzel from PP1 in favor of Matheson or Rakell for starters, but I also think schematically things are stale on the entries.

Is this mountain out of a molehill? What say y'all?

Wouldn't mind seeing either Math or RR there at the expense of Guentzel. Math is just smooth with the puck on his stick and RR is pretty good at protecting the puck. Either I think would be a much better choice

I just highly doubt we see Jake moved off there

 

[ChaosAgent]

Wouldn't mind seeing either Math or RR there at the expense of Guentzel. Math is just smooth with the puck on his stick and RR is pretty good at protecting the puck. Either I think would be a much better choice

I just highly doubt we see Jake moved off there

Yes, Jake is a genius in passing and those quick plays we often see in the zone.

Just way too many times if Sid loses the opening faceoff PP1 is going to have a fruitless 75 seconds. Today at Colorado I got so disgusted with their attempt; hence this thread. And Sid even won the faceoffs then, but Colorado pressured and got a quick clear then we could never re-establish. I would love to see us commit to just entering with speed at least once per PP. Even if Sid & Geno aren't the fastest these days.

 

[vodeni]

Yes, Jake is a genius in passing and those quick plays we often see in the zone.

Just way too many times if Sid loses the opening faceoff PP1 is going to have a fruitless 75 seconds. Today at Colorado I got so disgusted with their attempt; hence this thread. And Sid even won the faceoffs then, but Colorado pressured and got a quick clear then we could never re-establish. I would love to see us commit to just entering with speed at least once per PP. Even if Sid & Geno aren't the fastest these days.

Geno is by far the best entering the zone, Sid is the second best, both works, the trick here is when they bring the puck in and pass to either wing, if it gets to Jake or Rust, the next play is meaningless dump to no one, Rust is little bit better he recently sjates in and pulls up for the set up. At that point if they are pressed high, we rely on fast accurate passing which we have not seen too much lately. The worst is if Letnag brings the puck, it usually ends either in turnover or pass to someone skates while standing on the wall.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Geno is by far the best entering the zone, Sid is the second best, both works, the trick here is when they bring the puck in and pass to either wing, if it gets to Jake or Rust, the next play is meaningless dump to no one, Rust is little bit better he recently sjates in and pulls up for the set up. At that point if they are pressed high, we rely on fast accurate passing which we have not seen too much lately. The worst is if Letnag brings the puck, it usually ends either in turnover or pass to someone skates while standing on the wall.

I think Rust knows what he's doing. He accelerates and pulls up and backpasses and it often works. Jake is an adventure if it gets to him. I dread the meaningless soft walling of the puck.

I wish we had anyone with a forechecking presence to have dump & chase in PP1's arsenal. That could be Rust I suppose but we never enter the zone with speed.

To me the damning thing is that PP2 seems to be better at zone entry. I don't know if stats exist on this but I'd be surprised if it wasn't true. PP1 comes up empty way too often.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Yes, Jake is a genius in passing and those quick plays we often see in the zone.

Just way too many times if Sid loses the opening faceoff PP1 is going to have a fruitless 75 seconds. Today at Colorado I got so disgusted with their attempt; hence this thread. And Sid even won the faceoffs then, but Colorado pressured and got a quick clear then we could never re-establish. I would love to see us commit to just entering with speed at least once per PP. Even if Sid & Geno aren't the fastest these days.

I think part of the problem isn't even *just* the puck carrier, it's the other guys who are straddling the blueline who don't provide the puck carrier with any sort of outlet.

If you'll notice a lot of the time the puck carrier will gain the zone, but only slightly, and then turn it over because the guys standing along the blueline won't actually get open for him to dump it off to them. The defending PK can just stand up the puck carrier because the other guys don't get open to dish the puck off to.

This isn't meant to exonerate the puck carrier, as they're often really predictable. But I also wonder how much of that, especially when Geno's the puck carrier, is having no one open to access a pass and so they try and deke through the other team themselves, which 99 times out of 100 results in being stripped of the puck just as they're about to enter the zone.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I think part of the problem isn't even *just* the puck carrier, it's the other guys who are straddling the blueline who don't provide the puck carrier with any sort of outlet.

If you'll notice a lot of the time the puck carrier will gain the zone, but only slightly, and then turn it over because the guys standing along the blueline won't actually get open for him to dump it off to them. The defending PK can just stand up the puck carrier because the other guys don't get open to dish the puck off to.

This isn't meant to exonerate the puck carrier, as they're often really predictable. But I also wonder how much of that, especially when Geno's the puck carrier, is having no one open to access a pass and so they try and deke through the other team themselves, which 99 times out of 100 results in being stripped of the puck just as they're about to enter the zone.

There isn't enough movement entering the zone. We try to enter in the middle and have a guy on the wall as an outlet to chip the puck to, but then they often get the puck only a couple feet into the zone and then get closed off. If they mishandle it at all it's coming out.

I keep coming back to PP2 being better at entries. And they don't do the drop pass of death.

PP1 is elite in-zone but poor in getting there.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

There isn't enough movement entering the zone. We try to enter in the middle and have a guy on the wall as an outlet to chip the puck to, but then they often get the puck only a couple feet into the zone and then get closed off. If they mishandle it at all it's coming out.

I keep coming back to PP2 being better at entries. And they don't do the drop pass of death.

PP1 is elite in-zone but poor in getting there.

The ironic thing is that Erod is probably the best Zone entrance person on the roster
Note I'm in no way suggesting he be put back on PP1. Just an unfortunate mismatch of skills

 

[NeonKnight]

The ironic thing is that Erod is probably the best Zone entrance person on the roster

Yes, then reality rears its head when he's actually in the zone.