Potential OHL Expansion Locations

Otto

Lynch Syndrome. Know your families cancer history
Teams use the pre-season games to attract fan in close by centers - play the pre-season games in towns close by so fans may see the level of play for the first time and get the "bug" - maybe take in a game later on in the year. Teams have to sell their product in area's where there is competition for the entertainment dollar.

It makes sense.... except St. Thomas and Woodstock are nowhere near Erie
 

Tarantula

Hanging around the web
Aug 31, 2017
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Many teams likely don't realize a profit for their X games, so moving a game to a smaller venue can also reduce cost as well as the reason ohlosdr mentioned.

I believe Oshawa has a X game at Ajax this year, likely a good example of ohlosdr's point. For some teams it might be a bit of a cost driven descision as well.
 

WolvesAndWings

Wherever I go, the strawman follows
Mar 18, 2017
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I understand Timmins is a three-hour drive away from Sudbury/North Bay and six-hour drive from SSM, but would Timmins be a good place for an OHL team?

Although, Chatham-Kent would be another good spot to place an OHL expansion team, same with Belleville one day getting another team. I think Ottawa should put their AHL team in St. John's or Thunder Bay. Speaking of Thunder Bay, I would be crazy to say them for OHL, unless they were willing to fly teams in and out at their expense; but they are well suited for AHL one day.

Would like to see Cornwall get another team. I love seeing more junior teams because it gives potentially great hockey players all a good opportunity.

There's no way the OHL goes to Timmins. Would struggle for attendance and it's more than just the distance of the trip, but the quality of the trip. Almost everyone who plays road games in Timmins will have a connecting road trip to Sudbury or NB, and I don't think anyone wants OHL teams taking highways 144 or 11 at night. 144 especially is a death trap all year round.

Timmins would probably be better off in the QMJHL, as weird as that sounds.
 

buzzworthy

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Jan 14, 2014
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Toledo would be a terrific city with a rabid fan base, a nice arena, and a perfect location. You would have to convince those fans that the OHL is a better product than the ECHL, which, in my opinion, it is. Unfortunately, it probably won't happen.
 

OSA

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Jun 11, 2011
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You know, I agree that Timmins is not likely to ever get an OHL expansion franchise (their arena is like 100 years old for heavens sake), but the reasons for that have more to do with just how spoiled the OHL community is.

Timmins is too small, too isolated, not wealthy enough, the roads are too treacherous etc.

- Timmins has a larger population than both Rouyn-Noranda and Val D’Or and is only marginally smaller than North Bay.

- The median household income is greater than both Quebec communities

- driving Hwy 144 to a Timmins is no more treacherous than driving Quebec Hwy 117 to Val D’Or.

- Timmins to Erie would be the longest trip in the OHL (narrowly edging out Sault Ste. Marie to Erie by a few km’s) which is still over 1,000 km shorter than the longest trips in the QMJHL and WHL!!

If Rouyn-Noranda and Val D’Or can exist then so too ought a team in Timmins. If anything, it would create a perfect 3 team road trip for travelling teams along with Sudbury and North Bay.
 

Hammer9001

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Apr 1, 2015
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Hamilton
So just thought I'd re-chirp on this thread and just list potential expansion locations and some pros and cons

Cornwall - Pro: East expansion allows for easy beneficial division shuffle, Has decent arena I'm to understand. Con: Ownership questions, small market

Brantford - Pro: Extremely close to other markets for travel and away draw, largest metro in Ontario without an OHL team. Owner likely present. Con: Arena is small (2,952) and may require expansion.

Chatham - Pro: Easy West division expansion and travel location. Con: Arena questions, ownership questions.

Burlington/Oakville - Pro: Extremely close to to other markets and large metro. Con: No arena, Ownership questions, tight land availability, historically stingy council, proximity to Hamilton/Mississauga creates regional concerns.

Belleville - Pro: Rich hockey history, brings back the Bulls, has a working now renovated arena, east expansion allows for easy beneficial division shuffle. Con: Sens AHL affiliate currently plays there and is tied to a 10 year lease.

Brampton - Pro: Has an arena, ECHL team is drawing 3000+ (better then the Battalion Days), large metro. Con: Moved from Brampton to North Bay due to lack of support, currently has an ECHL team, area is already serviced by Mississauga (the arenas are literally 10 minutes down the road) and they are struggling for attendance.

Woodstock, Timmins, Brockville, Leamington, Lindsay, Stratford and Midland are also in the conversation, but realistically only because they are metros with populations greater then Owen Sound. That said, they all suffer the same problems, Ownership Questions, arenas that are too small, being very small markets, potentially already having allegiance to nearby OHL teams or in the case of Timmins, travel issues as well. I just don't see someone coming forward to make the investment in these places. I mean, it's a long and treacherous road whose promised land is to have what Owen Sound has, and that is a break even franchise that contributes to the community. Owen Sound's ownership is very clear, they are happy with that, and they share the costs amongst 5 different owners lessening the blow if a bad year comes around. It's not very often you find owners who are content with that, and the ones that are, are true hockey fans

I will also add that I am disqualifying Thunder Bay

While it may be the second largest metro in Ontario without an OHL team, its travel issues are simply insurmountable. The closest other team to Thunder Bay is SSM and it is 7 hours away. While an occasional long bus stint is acceptable, even if Thunder Bay was given it's own division of it's closest teams (SSM, Sudbury, Saginaw and North Bay) they would have 10.5 hours of travel time on average to teams within their own division. This is well beyond the current 9 hours the OHL currently has as its current max (SSM to Erie), and given every other team would be around 13+ hours away, it's just too much of a travel burden that not even teams in the WHL bear (yes they do have long stints, but they still play their majority of games in division which is usually 4 hours away). Unless the cost of air travel goes down dramatically, I can't see the league putting a team there barring an insanely rich owner who is willing to front the flight costs.
 
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WolvesAndWings

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Mar 18, 2017
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You know, I agree that Timmins is not likely to ever get an OHL expansion franchise (their arena is like 100 years old for heavens sake), but the reasons for that have more to do with just how spoiled the OHL community is.

Timmins is too small, too isolated, not wealthy enough, the roads are too treacherous etc.

- Timmins has a larger population than both Rouyn-Noranda and Val D’Or and is only marginally smaller than North Bay.

- The median household income is greater than both Quebec communities

- driving Hwy 144 to a Timmins is no more treacherous than driving Quebec Hwy 117 to Val D’Or.

- Timmins to Erie would be the longest trip in the OHL (narrowly edging out Sault Ste. Marie to Erie by a few km’s) which is still over 1,000 km shorter than the longest trips in the QMJHL and WHL!!

If Rouyn-Noranda and Val D’Or can exist then so too ought a team in Timmins. If anything, it would create a perfect 3 team road trip for travelling teams along with Sudbury and North Bay.

I would really like it in theory but having driven both roads one point I think you're wrong on is the 144. That highway is far worse than Quebec 117. Its two feet narrower than all other Kings Highways in Ontario other than the 129 (Chapleau to Thessalon), is bumpier, less straight, and the moose hazard is insane.

More about hockey now, adding Timmins would force Sudbury and North Bay to play more Saturday games at home, which for Sudbury anyway are always the worse attendance wise. Additionally, I highly doubt the teams down south want a 4th Northern team, as for most that would add an extra trip to the North. I know OHL teams are relatively spoiled compared to Q and W teams but Southwestern Ontario controlls the league unfortunately.
 

ohloutsider

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Jan 13, 2016
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I would really like it in theory but having driven both roads one point I think you're wrong on is the 144. That highway is far worse than Quebec 117. Its two feet narrower than all other Kings Highways in Ontario other than the 129 (Chapleau to Thessalon), is bumpier, less straight, and the moose hazard is insane.

More about hockey now, adding Timmins would force Sudbury and North Bay to play more Saturday games at home, which for Sudbury anyway are always the worse attendance wise. Additionally, I highly doubt the teams down south want a 4th Northern team, as for most that would add an extra trip to the North. I know OHL teams are relatively spoiled compared to Q and W teams but Southwestern Ontario controlls the league unfortunately.
I don't agree about "Southwestern Ontario" controlling the league. The League has and will always be controlled by the sports groups in and around the GTA. League office wish list is to have as many as possible teams in and around the GTA. This is in spite of the fact that this area has little to no interest in Junior Hockey. The other shown interest is NY state. Branch has said that he would welcome a chance to get a foothold into the NY state market. Although they may never put a team there the Buffalo pre-season games show their interest in the area.
 

OSA

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Jun 11, 2011
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I would really like it in theory but having driven both roads one point I think you're wrong on is the 144. That highway is far worse than Quebec 117. Its two feet narrower than all other Kings Highways in Ontario other than the 129 (Chapleau to Thessalon), is bumpier, less straight, and the moose hazard is insane.

More about hockey now, adding Timmins would force Sudbury and North Bay to play more Saturday games at home, which for Sudbury anyway are always the worse attendance wise. Additionally, I highly doubt the teams down south want a 4th Northern team, as for most that would add an extra trip to the North. I know OHL teams are relatively spoiled compared to Q and W teams but Southwestern Ontario controlls the league unfortunately.

Maybe I’m working about some of the issues you can encounter on 144. I’ve driven both (in the Fall mind you) and I found the 117 to have more turns and sections with closer proximity to the rocks. I’ll admit that the 144 seems more narrow, but imagining the 2 highways in the winter, I wasn’t seeing one as being more treacherous than the other.

From a hockey standpoint, wouldn’t Timmins be stuck with the Saturday night games? I’d think Sudbury and North Bay would alternate between Friday nights and Sunday afternoons/evenings.
 

buzzworthy

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Jan 14, 2014
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I have a question about travel and schedules. The Otters and Owen Sound both have double weekend games, home and home. Do any other OHL teams do this? It does make for some entertaining hockey. It would save quite a bit on travel time and cost.
 

Lycanthrope

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Dec 3, 2011
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I would really like it in theory but having driven both roads one point I think you're wrong on is the 144. That highway is far worse than Quebec 117. Its two feet narrower than all other Kings Highways in Ontario other than the 129 (Chapleau to Thessalon), is bumpier, less straight, and the moose hazard is insane.

More about hockey now, adding Timmins would force Sudbury and North Bay to play more Saturday games at home, which for Sudbury anyway are always the worse attendance wise. Additionally, I highly doubt the teams down south want a 4th Northern team, as for most that would add an extra trip to the North. I know OHL teams are relatively spoiled compared to Q and W teams but Southwestern Ontario controlls the league unfortunately.
As a salesperson that has travelled 144 extensively it is brutal, narrow and winding at times. That road alone should unfortunately disqualify Timmins.
 

tony d

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Jun 23, 2007
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Yeah, Timmins or Thunder Bay would make sense to me for OHL expansion teams. Travel is a factor sure but it would be good to see a team in Northern Ontario.
 

InSuL1nImP

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Feb 11, 2017
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Toledo, Cleveland, Uxbridge, Kawartha Lakes, Cornwall, Lansing, Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse.
 

AttackSound

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Aug 25, 2016
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I have a question about travel and schedules. The Otters and Owen Sound both have double weekend games, home and home. Do any other OHL teams do this? It does make for some entertaining hockey. It would save quite a bit on travel time and cost.

The only reason why Owen Sound/Erie meet a doubleheaders is due travel distance if there were another teams closer to either city that didn't effect either conference then. Most teams that have marathon type travel will do some form of double header throughout the season usually home and homes are known from teams like Ottawa and Soo are typically known for double-header throughout the season.
 
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Firebrd828

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Oct 21, 2015
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Toledo, Cleveland........Lansing, Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse.
ECHL, AHL.....NCAA, NHL, AHL, AHL.

Aside from their repeated attempts to try to try to locate a team right in the heart of the GTA, the OHL has tended to stay away from markets where they would compete against these other leagues for attendance/exposure. Lansing would be very interesting to those of us in Michigan, however.
 
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Ward Cornell

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The only reason why Owen Sound/Erie meet a doubleheaders is due travel distance if there were another teams closer to either city that didn't effect either conference then. Most teams that have marathon type travel will do some form of double header throughout the season usually home and homes are known from teams like Ottawa and Soo are typically known for double-header throughout the season.
Honestly, It would great for Erie and some other teams to do this double-header. I would imagine that a lot more visiting fans would make a trip to Erie (or wherever) to see a double-header than just one game. It would also give the visiting team a moral boost!
As for ownership issues for Stratford, well Justin Beiber is now living in Cambridge and a 40 minute easy drive away! (ohh just spit balling there) :)
 

Captain Crash

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Apr 9, 2015
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Honestly, It would great for Erie and some other teams to do this double-header. I would imagine that a lot more visiting fans would make a trip to Erie (or wherever) to see a double-header than just one game. It would also give the visiting team a moral boost!

The problem is that it can be an attendance killer for the home team. If a casual fan looks at the schedule for the upcoming weekend and sees the same visitor twice, they're more likely to pick one just one game to attend rather than potentially both. This has been an issue in some other leagues that utilize the double-header format frequently such as the FHL. That's not to say it shouldn't be done at all, but that it should be used sparingly.
 
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Kingpin794

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Apr 25, 2012
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Has anyone thrown out Battle Creek, MI? No AHL, ECHL, USHL, NCAA. I'm not sure but Kellogg Arena (almost 5000 capacity for ice shows) might be able to be used for hockey. Gets a team in West Michigan that's not far from the Chicago area.
 
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TcNorth

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Has anyone thrown out Battle Creek, MI? No AHL, ECHL, USHL, NCAA. I'm not sure but Kellogg Arena (almost 5000 capacity for ice shows) might be able to be used for hockey. Gets a team in West Michigan that's not far from the Chicago area.
Kingpin794, that is a nice arena in Battle Creek. I have been their several times. There is only a 26 mile difference between them and Kalamazoo of the ECHL which could be a problem. For 40 plus years Battle Creek has been K-Wings fans in the IHL and ECHL. However Flint and Saginaw are only 38 miles a part and have been rivals for nearly 50 years in the IHL, COHL/UHL, and OHL. You never know.
 

Hammer9001

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Apr 1, 2015
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Toledo, Cleveland, Uxbridge, Kawartha Lakes, Cornwall, Lansing, Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse.

Realistically, Toledo, Syracuse, Rochester and Cleveland are out unless their ECHL/AHL team parts ways. Given the Rochester American's have been around since 1956, I don't see that happening any time soon. I also don't see Buffalo working, given the Sabres don't exactly sell out.

Uxbridge I would say is very unrealistic, given it's even smaller then Owen Sound
 

Firebrd828

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Oct 21, 2015
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Kingpin794, that is a nice arena in Battle Creek. I have been their several times. There is only a 26 mile difference between them and Kalamazoo of the ECHL which could be a problem. For 40 plus years Battle Creek has been K-Wings fans in the IHL and ECHL. However Flint and Saginaw are only 38 miles a part and have been rivals for nearly 50 years in the IHL, COHL/UHL, and OHL. You never know.
Western Michigan University is also in Kalamazoo. They've been playing very good hockey for a good while now.
 

Firebrd828

Registered User
Oct 21, 2015
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Fraser, MI? 3,400 seat arena and a population of almost 900,000 in Macomb county. Already has a NA3HL Junior team (Metro Jets), but the arena complex has five sheets of ice, so sharing space wouldn't be a problem.
 

TcNorth

Registered User
Jan 25, 2015
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Fraser, MI? 3,400 seat arena and a population of almost 900,000 in Macomb county. Already has a NA3HL Junior team (Metro Jets), but the arena complex has five sheets of ice, so sharing space wouldn't be a problem.
Fraser, MI had a team as an original member of the Colonial Hockey League (minor/pro) in the early, mid and late 90’s as did the Flint Bulldogs (who were reinvented as the Flint Generals. Then it became the United Hockey League, then finished as the IHL. They never had really good crowds as the Detroit Falcons/Michigan Falcons/Motor City Mechanics with so much going on around Detroit and that area in Fraser.
 

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