Potential of Spezza vs. Malkin

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Canuck21t

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Slay said:
Too early to tell who is going to be better. But this upcoming season can give some answers. Spezza will play on the 1st line in NHL for the contender, Malkin on the 2nd line in RSL also for the contending team. Also Malkin will have a good chance to go to the Olympics (even though there is some abundance of centers: Fedorov, Zhamnov, Datsyuk, Yashin, Kozlov and Malkin, but I guess some of them will be sent to the wing).

I've seen Spezza only once, in juniors, and he looked good, especially in understanding of the game and playmaking, his wristshot seems very good too. But also he looked heavy, I mean Kovalchuk-like heavy (though he is listed only 206lbs) and no legs of Kovalchuk. But I heard that he has improved his speed greatly, so will see.

Malkin's best quality is also very good understanding of the game, other than that: very soft hands with long reach, fast effortless skating, good physical game. Don't forget that Malkin more than 3 years younger (just turned 19) and still developing. He doesn't look as a complete player yet, I mean it is still notable that he has resources to work with and he already looks very good. He is almost 6'4 but looks very fast on his skates, skates without effort (his skating is not as good as Fedorov or Zherdev but speed-wise it is very good). Partly it is because he is not very heavy (about 192lbs) but at the same time he is very strong physically, doesn't avoid rough stuff. I think in the future he has a chance to be close to Fedorov's 2-way game and statistical-wise a PPG player or more.

At international level (mainly, I take juniors) I think Malkin is surpassing Spezza.

PS: yesterday Malkin scored on PP and Metallurg beat Salavat 1-0 on Romazan Cup. Today Metallurg plays vs AK-Bars.
Slay, you're the best. You're always objective and so calm; I have no choice but to respect you. I also agree with you about Malkin and Spezza. Spezza's skating has gotten better and hopefully (for me anyway), he'll get a chance to prove to the world that he's among the best young players out there, much more than he was able to prove in previous years. Malkin I'm sure will be awsome when he'll finally come to the NHL. Like some have said, he may even be better than Ovechkin.
 

Kaizer

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Apr 26, 2003
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Genghis Keon said:
Ovechkin at 18: 53-13-10-23
Ovechkin at 19: 37-13-14-27

Korolyuk at 18: 52-16-13-29
Korolyuk at 19: 50-30-19-49

Balmochnyk at 18: 37-10-4-14 (the same as 53-14-6-20)

I think that's close (except Korolyuk blowing Ovechkin out of the water at 19), anyone else? :teach:

Or are you going to change your oh-so-valid argument now that you see it works against Ovechkin too?
IHL or MHL or whatever isn't RSL and there ware bucnh of teams that can't play even in 2nd tier league in Russia now.
 

TaiMaiShu

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Aug 12, 2005
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stardog said:
With all of these comparison threads around I wanted to ask around for an opinion on who will be the better all around player between the 2 most highly touted 2nd overall selections in recent memory.
Who will be better offensively and on D?
What are each guys max NHL scoring potential and who does Malkin most resemble in today's NHL?
Would you trade one for the other straight up?
Will either match Heatly in terms of scoting?
Let the debate begin!


i dnt think these are the "2 most highly touted 2nd overall selesctions in recent memory." i believe you would have to put a DANY HEATLEY in the PICTURE :amazed: (yes look at the headline under my name)
<------------------
 

Egil

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I don't think Kovolchuk makes Ottawa has an 18 year old. His defense was horendous, and we didn't need scoring at that point. Their has NEVER been a player as good as Spezza taken by a top, top team in the NHL. Because of that, comparing what Spezza has done to other prospects is extremely difficult. Despite the hype that players get, it is NOT guaranteed that Kovolchuk ends up being better than Spezza, who is getting his first real opportunity THIS season. These players are still extremely young, and they will continue to improve. Spezza's game is ALOT more suited to a prolonged career than Kovolchuk's as well.

As for Malkin, I assume he is a very good player. He stands a reasonable chance of being as good, if not better, than Spezza (and a chance that he will be better than Kovolchuk). Anyone talking of certainties with any of these players is simply speculating out of their asses.
 

Genghis Keon

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Kaizer said:
IHL or MHL or whatever isn't RSL and there ware bucnh of teams that can't play even in 2nd tier league in Russia now.

Balmochnyk played for Tolyatti Lada in the RSL. They placed behind Yaroslvl, but ahead of teams like Moscow Dynamo and CSKA Moscow.

Korolyuk played for Krylja Sovetov, but, looking at it, I don't know if they played in the RSL or in the High League: http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues/seasons/russia19991996.html

Nevertheless, Ovechkin is surrounded by his present contemporaries in RSL stats: Malkin, who outpointed Ovy in their respective 18 y/o seasons; Zherdev, who outpointed Ovy in their respective 18 y/o seasons; Perezhogin, who scored more goals than Ovy in their respective 19 y/o seasons, though he did play 11 more games; Semin, who put up comparable stats in their respective 18 y/o seasons; and Frolov put up slightly better stats in their respective 19 y/o seasons. So, and I ask this using SubNova's "logic," what makes Ovechkin better than any of these other players?

I'm not taking a dig at Ovechkin, btw; I'm just trying to turn to tables to show how some arguments are beyond laughable (i.e. a purely statistical comparison between Daigle and Crosby).
 

Slick Nick

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Egil said:
I don't think Kovolchuk makes Ottawa has an 18 year old. His defense was horendous, and we didn't need scoring at that point. Their has NEVER been a player as good as Spezza taken by a top, top team in the NHL. Because of that, comparing what Spezza has done to other prospects is extremely difficult. Despite the hype that players get, it is NOT guaranteed that Kovolchuk ends up being better than Spezza, who is getting his first real opportunity THIS season. These players are still extremely young, and they will continue to improve. Spezza's game is ALOT more suited to a prolonged career than Kovolchuk's as well.

Spezza a 40-50 goals/year player :confused:

I'd love to see that happen, but I think he'll be in the 25-35 range at his prime. He's no near Kovalchuk, it's not worth even discussing about it.

Yeah, and Malkin is magic... Slay described him perfectly, as usual. The hands, the reach, the passes, the effortless skating.. he's going to be a concession player, no doubt about it.
 

SubNova

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I think I know what this is all about; it’s like those guys that buy big trucks to offset their lack of size in other places. Canadians are pissed off that they don’t have good prospects while there are a number of European prospects especially Russian prospects. If you take out a guy like Heatley because he wasn’t borne in Canada you are left with Crosby and a few goalies. After this year you will have only goalies to hype up.
 

WVP

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SubNova said:
I think I know what this is all about; it’s like those guys that buy big trucks to offset their lack of size in other places. Canadians are pissed off that they don’t have good prospects while there are a number of European prospects especially Russian prospects. If you take out a guy like Heatley because he wasn’t borne in Canada you are left with Crosby and a few goalies. After this year you will have only goalies to hype up.
I'd stop now if I were you.
 

Tap on the Ankle

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Slick Nick said:
Spezza a 40-50 goals/year player :confused:

I'd love to see that happen, but I think he'll be in the 25-35 range at his prime. He's no near Kovalchuk, it's not worth even discussing about it.


Errr... is it just me, or are you implying that more goals = better player?
 

SubNova

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Errr... is it just me, or are you implying that more goals = better player?

Is it me or is hockey about putting the puck in the net. Now I know why NHL is doing so bad with the fans. Maybe Canada should think about starting its own league where people just skate around and fight. Thats what like to call good old Canadian hockey, hey maybe we should not even skate but just fight. SWEET new reality TV show idea!
 

IdiotsPickedMyName*

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SubNova said:
I think I know what this is all about; it’s like those guys that buy big trucks to offset their lack of size in other places. Canadians are pissed off that they don’t have good prospects while there are a number of European prospects especially Russian prospects. If you take out a guy like Heatley because he wasn’t borne in Canada you are left with Crosby and a few goalies. After this year you will have only goalies to hype up.

Yeah look at all those slick first rounder russians this season!!!......Oh wait there weren't any


As to this argument you can't even mention Malkin's name in the same sentence as Spezza yet. Malkin has proved nothing in the NHL except that he won't come over yet because he doesnt think he can win the Calder. :sarcasm:
 

NyQuil

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I've watched Spezza quite closely since being introduced to the NHL, and I can already safely say that there has been no better playmaker on the Senators in franchise history than this guy.

He has vision and a deft passing touch that is unequalled by anyone who has ever played on the team, and he's only put in 1 1/2 seasons.

While he can roof it with the best of them, and has a pretty wicked snap shot, Spezza's strengths are his playmaking abilities and I expect it'll be the assist column that sees his greatest contribution to the league.
 

Tap on the Ankle

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SubNova said:
Is it me or is hockey about putting the puck in the net.

:biglaugh:

No, it's just you. If hockey was only about putting pucks in nets, it would be strictly a shootout competition. There would be no need for passing, checking, referees, faceoffs, lineups, defensemen, coaches, etc. etc. etc.
 

IdiotsPickedMyName*

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fisher said:
:biglaugh:

No, it's just you. If hockey was only about putting pucks in nets, it would be strictly a shootout competition. There would be no need for passing, checking, referees, faceoffs, lineups, defensemen, coaches, etc. etc. etc.


:biglaugh: Thats exactly what i was thinking
 

Zine

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Feb 28, 2002
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fisher said:
Errr... is it just me, or are you implying that more goals = better player?

I don't think he's implying that, but the point still stands. As of now, Spezza isn't even in the same statosphere as Ilya. At 22, Kovalchuks arguably the most dangerous offensive weapon in the league while Spezza isn't even a top 10 center.
Even for the future, I don't see anyone surpasing Kovalchuk offensively. Spezza will probably be behind the likes of Crosby, Kessel and perhaps Malkin in terms of top NHL centers.
 

SubNova

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Yeah look at all those slick first rounder russians this season!!!......Oh wait they're weren't any

If there was another 1st round Russian player Canada would go in to state of depression, you guys cant even deal with Kovy doing good how will you deal with 4 or 5 players. Ohhh I know how... you will try to hurt them during the game that’s right good old Canadian hockey. Putting goons on the ice. Isn’t that part of the plan if you can’t stop them hurt them kill them just to win.

No, it's just you. If hockey was only about putting pucks in nets, it would be strictly a shootout competition. There would be no need for passing, checking, referees, faceoffs, lineups, defensemen, coaches, etc. etc. etc.

Just because you list some parts of the game doesn’t mean that’s what the game is about. The game is about putting the puck in the net and doing more then your opponent that’s it. The things you listed are done so you can get to put the puck in the net. Without that goal in mind you would have no game at all. Anyway you cut it, it’s about putting the puck in the net. Have fun with a team full of good faceoff guys

Canadian Hockey = Endless machine of role players.
 

Zine

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SubNova said:
If there was another 1st round Russian player Canada would go in to state of depression, you guys cant even deal with Kovy doing good how will you deal with 4 or 5 players. Ohhh I know how... you will try to hurt them during the game that’s right good old Canadian hockey. Putting goons on the ice. Isn’t that part of the plan if you can’t stop them hurt them kill them just to win.



Just because you list some parts of the game doesn’t mean that’s what the game is about. The game is about putting the puck in the net and doing more then your opponent that’s it. The things you listed are done so you can get to put the puck in the net. Without that goal in mind you would have no game at all. Anyway you cut it, it’s about putting the puck in the net. Have fun with a team full of good faceoff guys

Canadian Hockey = Endless machine of role players.

I'm not a big fan of the traditional Canadian style either - but enough already. Your rants aren't winning you any fans. :shakehead
 

SubNova

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Canadian hockey needs to stop projecting its self on the NHL, if you don’t like action and scoring then watch your own league. I don’t want NHL to end up being all about getting a player hurt via fights or cheap hits. This is skilled sport I don’t see how teams have two goons in each lineup just to fight. Our why a top end player needs a goon on his line just incase.
 

IdiotsPickedMyName*

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SubNova said:
Canadian hockey needs to stop projecting its self on the NHL, if you don’t like action and scoring then watch your own league. I don’t want NHL to end up being all about getting a player hurt via fights or cheap hits. This is skilled sport I don’t see how teams have two goons in each lineup just to fight. Our why a top end player needs a goon on his line just incase.

Well considering their wouldn't be an NHL without Canadians, we respectfully ask you to go form your own league.

whats with this guy :dunno:
 

Beukeboom Fan

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Slick Nick said:
How many players can you name that can put up 50 goals/year stats? Just curious... :dunno:

I think the point that is trying to be made is that you have some guys that can put up offensive numbers but the shortfall in the other parts of their game reduce their value.

Look at a guy like Donald Audette. Given 1st line icetime on a really bad team - he'll put up his share points. Of course, any team that is playing him 20 minutes a night is losing a bunch of games.

I think the thought process is that a team would rather have a balanced player that can contribute in all aspects (Sakic, Yzerman, Modano, Forsberg, Messier in his prime, etc) of the game rather than just a prolific goal scorer that doesn't do anything else (Mike Gartner, younger version of Luc Robitaille, etc).
 
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