Potential buyouts on your team

[Jester]

In the end the teams with large payrolls get a Cap exemption that in effect lets them add two more of among the best the league has to offer.

This is fair?

the big owners just lost a lot of coin by not playing a full season so that the small markets could have a chance at making money while being competitive.

that was fair?

 

[norrisnick]

Isn't that what is in effect happening? Just change the names on the backs of the Sweaters. If Forsberg is bought out at 2/3 of salary and released he will still have that money in his pocket . . . and then can sign with another contender, Detroit maybe, for a fraction of his worth because he got his money. He does not need to choose between $$$'s and a competitive team so guess where he will end up. But Detroit does the same and their player goes to Toronto. Toronto's goes to Colorado.

In the end the teams with large payrolls get a Cap exemption that in effect lets them add two more of among the best the league has to offer.

This is fair?

I'm sure by now you've heard this phrase.

Life isn't fair.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

the big owners just lost a lot of coin by not playing a full season so that the small markets could have a chance at making money while being competitive.

that was fair?

Who said that I gave a damn what ownership made? Are they sending me a dime of it? Nor do they care a whit about me so it is even. For this moment in time my interests and their converged. If this is the sell out, then this is where the interests stop converging. This kills competitive balance and subverts the cap.

For that matter, what do you care how much the Flyers are making other than tangentially. Are they sending you more than what the Pens ownership is sending me?

 

[Levitate]

In otherwords it's a gift to New York, they get out from under a bad contract they had no point in aquiring and get money to spend elsewhere. They unload a player a team paid to get rid of for no cap penalty what so ever, that's a dodge.

err, why are you so stuck on the rangers here? a lot of teams have players they paid too much with bad contracts and they want to dump them so they can spend money elsewhere.

if this is a "gift to new york" it's a "gift" to every other team out there that is thinking about buying out a contract of someone. if it's a "dodge" for new york, it's a "dodge" for every other team

what's with the sour grapes

 

[Icey]

I disagree. Guerin was your leading scorer. Turg was 6th. Guerin provides leadership and will step in as the captain if Modano isn't back.

That is most of the Modano/Guerin problem right there. Guerin feels he deserves to be captain. Him and Mike has done nothing but butt heads since he was named captain. Billy doesn't know how to play without being front and center. He doesn't like taking a back seat to Modano. The stars are Modano's franchise and for t he good of the team, I say let Billy go, he's nothing but trouble on and off the ice.

Billy's scoring can be replaced by any one of a dozen UFA that will come at a cheap cost. He wasn't worth $9M last season and he's not worth $6M this season. For that kind of money I expect you to be a difference maker and he's just not.

If Turg would re-work his contract to create some cap space, then yeah, he'd gain some fan support.

Turgeon has a lot more fan support than you give him credit for.

As far as the rest of the Stars' moves that I talked about. I didn't really want to go into all the math, but since you asked for it.. Assuming buyouts don't count against the cap, and that Turg is bought out, this is what the Stars look like with the rollback..

Guerin - $6.74
Lehtinen - $3.57
Turco - $3.16
Boucher - $1.82
Barnes - $1.14
Klemm - $1.12
Daley - $0.456
Svoboda - $0.456

That totals out to $19.04..

Modano - $6.84
Zubov - $4.56
Morrow - $1.40

Now you're at $31.83..

Add in your other RFA's - none of which have done anything since their last contracts to deserve big raises..

Kapanen - $570
Erskine - $552
Ellis - $437
Smith - $418
Ott - $530
Miettinen - $624
Lessard - $570 (paycut there - the kid didn't do jack in the AHL)

Now you're at $34.96..

With the cap at $39.5 minus the $2.2 for player costs, you have 18 players under contract and $2.34M in cap space. If you have to give 110% QO's to your small time RFA's, then that gives you another $370k hit and about $2M in cap space..

Buying out Guerin instead of Turgeon gives you an extra $1.41 in cap space.. Buying both of them out gives you a whopping $12M in cap space.

Regardless of which of the two you'd rather see go - I think it's obvious that the Stars will be happy with the number of core players that they'll be able to keep if they buy out one of the two..

(04-05 salaires based on http://www.andrewsstarspage.com/Payroll/index.htm)

Your using old salary figures since Modano and Zubov no longer have contracts and you have left off Arnott who will still be a RFA and due a qualifying offer whom if according to you they let Turgeon go, then they will have to qualify.

Keep up with things. It's quite simple .
http://www.andrewsstarspage.com/Premium/6-19story.htm?

 

[me2]

Isn't that what is in effect happening? Just change the names on the backs of the Sweaters. If Forsberg is bought out at 2/3 of salary and released he will still have that money in his pocket . . . and then can sign with another contender, Detroit maybe, for a fraction of his worth because he got his money. He does not need to choose between $$$'s and a competitive team so guess where he will end up. But Detroit does the same and their player goes to Toronto. Toronto's goes to Colorado.

After these teams release all of these players, just how powerful are they going to look? If the Avs release Sakic and/or Blake, they don't look too impressive, especially if Forsberg isn't around. Strip half of Detroit away and it looks a bit bleaker for the Wings. etc They look powerful now, but as I said, they won't look quite as strong once the buyouts happen and UFA are let go.

That evens things right up.

In the end the teams with large payrolls get a Cap exemption that in effect lets them add two more of among the best the league has to offer.

This is fair?

Yes it is fair. Why? Because the Penguins now have the same chance at Forsberg as Detorit.

1. Who says they will sign for very little just to play in Detroit. If Atlanta offered Sakic and/or Sundin $4m + Heatley + Kovalchuk as wingers and offered to upgrade a Dman or two they would look very, very nice. Atlanta at $4m/y or Detroit at $1m. I can tell you a lot of UFAs would take the money.

2. If you think think players would take peanuts to play on a better team they might just choose other reasons. Pittsburgh has the biggest reason in the NHL for a player to sign there: the Mario factor. What star forward, if he was going to sign for peanuts, wouldn't want to play on Mario's wing? A couple of stars sign up with Mario for cheap, and suddenly the Pengs are looking like a playoff hope. That in turn attracts a couple of decent defensemen and Pengs are sitting around $30-32m and looking pretty solid.

 

[LordHelmet]

That is most of the Modano/Guerin problem right there. Guerin feels he deserves to be captain. Him and Mike has done nothing but butt heads since he was named captain. Billy doesn't know how to play without being front and center. He doesn't like taking a back seat to Modano. The stars are Modano's franchise and for t he good of the team, I say let Billy go, he's nothing but trouble on and off the ice.

I've heard all of the things you're saying about them butting heads, about Billy not taking a back seat to Modano, and I just don't see evidence of any of it. Mo would probably be glad to give up the C to Billy. And saying that he's been nothing but trouble? Come on, that's a huge exaggeration. Find me one example..

Billy's scoring can be replaced by any one of a dozen UFA that will come at a cheap cost.

Name them. Name the UFA's that can put up Guerin's numbers for less than his contract. There might be one or two - but for for every one of those, there are probably ten guys that can put up Turgeon's numbers for less than his contract..

Your using old salary figures since Modano and Zubov no longer have contracts and you have left off Arnott who will still be a RFA and due a qualifying offer whom if according to you they let Turgeon go, then they will have to qualify.

Did you completely ignore what I posted? I said that Modano and Zubov would need new contracts and that I was using their previous salaries minus the rollback (which would be a reasonable price for both). There's nothing that requires the Stars to give Arnott a QA and I said that they'd need to acquire a 4th center from somewhere.

Keep up with things. It's quite simple .
http://www.andrewsstarspage.com/Premium/6-19story.htm?

Sorry, I'm not going to pay a guy to tell me stuff that I can figure out on my own..

 

[txomisc]

the big owners just lost a lot of coin by not playing a full season so that the small markets could have a chance at making money while being competitive.

that was fair?

I wouldnt say they lost
alot of coin. Certainly not something that can't be made up for over the long term. Say they lost X million well if the CBA term is 6 years and they make X/6 more per year theyd come out even. Id imagine they will actually come out more in the positive at the end of the cba by several million.

 

[txomisc]

That is most of the Modano/Guerin problem right there. Guerin feels he deserves to be captain. Him and Mike has done nothing but butt heads since he was named captain. Billy doesn't know how to play without being front and center. He doesn't like taking a back seat to Modano. The stars are Modano's franchise and for t he good of the team, I say let Billy go, he's nothing but trouble on and off the ice.

Billy's scoring can be replaced by any one of a dozen UFA that will come at a cheap cost. He wasn't worth $9M last season and he's not worth $6M this season. For that kind of money I expect you to be a difference maker and he's just not.




Turgeon has a lot more fan support than you give him credit for.



Your using old salary figures since Modano and Zubov no longer have contracts and you have left off Arnott who will still be a RFA and due a qualifying offer whom if according to you they let Turgeon go, then they will have to qualify.

Keep up with things. It's quite simple .
http://www.andrewsstarspage.com/Premium/6-19story.htm?

Yep, Id say Guerin lost quite a bit of fan support in the 2004 playoffs. The guy had 1 point in five games and did not deserve any more than that. He was a complete no show. He took 23 shots, mostly of the lazy variety and ended up with zero goals. Turgeon worked as hard as any star along with Modano and Morrow (although none of them exactly produced)
Also during the regular season it was Morrows hard work that allowed Guerin and to a lesser degress Arnott to produce.

 

[Icey]

Sorry, I'm not going to pay a guy to tell me stuff that I can figure out on my own..

In other words your willing to go to the guys website and quote him when its for free, but when you have to pay a whole 75 cents a month ($8 a year) then your not willing to pay for him to do the work. Problem is your work isn't accurate and his is. It's ashame you can't support a guy who runs a hockey website for your home team on his own dime, on his own time after his full time job and all he is trying to do is recoop some of the money he spends, yet your more than willing to over pay a player like Guerin. Got it!

 

[LordHelmet]

In other words your willing to go to the guys website and quote him when its for free, but when you have to pay a whole 75 cents a month ($8 a year) then your not willing to pay for him to do the work.

Ummm, ok.. sorry, I'll go grab the Stars' 05-06 contracts off of their official website... Happy now? Jeez...

Problem is your work isn't accurate and his is.

You keep saying this... Where is my work not accurate? Instead of griping and yelling, why don't you try making a point or showing a problem with my analysis?

It's ashame you can't support a guy who runs a hockey website for your home team on his own dime, on his own time after his full time job and all he is trying to do is recoop some of the money he spends, yet your more than willing to over pay a player like Guerin. Got it!

He's not doing it on his own dime, he's charging for it. Mark runs a great site and I enjoyed reading it, but sorry, if you start charging for a website then I can easily live without it..

And by the way - I'm not paying Guerin - Hicks is. And also by the way, if you want the definition of "overpay" the first man on the list would be Turgeon..

 

[Taranis_24]

The Caps pay about 40% of Jagr's salary . . . . Rangers are on the "hook" for the entire contract when it comes to cap figures.

Critter - Being a Capitals fan myself I hope you are correct on this. But, if you are incorrect it would seem then the CAPS could or should be able to buyout that portion of the contract to clear it from their books and make more space available under their cap. So, do you think that even if the Rangers did not want to buyout Jagr could the CAPS still buyout their portion of the salary owed and rid themselves of this guy completely?

 

[kdb209]

Originally Posted by HockeyCritter
The Caps pay about 40% of Jagr's salary . . . . Rangers are on the "hook" for the entire contract when it comes to cap figures.

Critter - Being a Capitals fan myself I hope you are correct on this. But, if you are incorrect it would seem then the CAPS could or should be able to buyout that portion of the contract to clear it from their books and make more space available under their cap. So, do you think that even if the Rangers did not want to buyout Jagr could the CAPS still buyout their portion of the salary owed and rid themselves of this guy completely?

Brooks has claimed that the cap $'s will be split between Wash and NYR, but the Washingon GM has denied this.

But if the salary cap $'s are split, there would be no way for the Capitals to buy out their portion (allegedly 40%). Jagr is no longer under contract to the Caps - they have just agreed to pay a %-age of his salary as one of the terms of the trade. Jagr is under contract to the Rangers, and only they can decide to buy him out or not (and if 40% of his salary does count against Washington's cap, they would have little reason to want to).

Washington can't buy out their 40% and call 40% of Jagr a free agent.

 

[mooseOAK*]

Found this on the net about the new NBA CBA , bayarea.com but you need to register:

For this summer and this summer only, teams are allowed to cut one player and be rid of the luxury tax on that player's contract, although they'll still owe the guy a salary that would have you rushing out to buy lottery tickets.

Case in point: Allan Houston, New York Knicks, who barely played last season because of an arthritic knee and who is owed $40 million for the next two seasons. He'll get that money, but if they cut him, the Knicks will save an equal amount they would otherwise owe the league.

 

[Tawnos]

So New york gets to erase their Jagr mistake for 67% of 4.18 for the next 4 years i.e a check for 11 millionish gets them 4 mill in cap space over the next 4 years, someone else has to deal with Jag's moodiness, the Rangers pick up another sniper and that isn't a cap dodge?

Jagr isn't gonna go anywhere. Plus, it's only three years. 4 years of his 7-year contract are gone, and the 8th is a club option.

I hope they buyout both Holik and Kasparaitis though. In fact, if they could, I'd buy out Nylander too. Start over.

 

[Isles72]

I know what you are saying and it sounds good on paper to keep Yashin at only 2.2 more than it would cost to buy him out - but counting that $7.6 against the cap every year would be a huge detriment to the rest of the lineup. If they buy him out and take the initial hit financially, they can sign two more top notch players for what it would cost to keep him.

what they could do is ''front load '' him during a year in which they have extra cap space

for example , if the cap is 38 mil and the isles come in at around 28 mil after all their players are signed --they could renegotiate with Yashin to give him , lets say 8 mil front loaded

this would ease the burden of the deal for the rest of the years remaining