Post Pre-Season Prospect Stock Market

[RedWingsNow*]

Rising
Mrazek -- Just keeps looking awesome every step of the way. Is now probably the #1 prospect in the organization.
Ouellet -- Everything about his screams NHLer. Organization raves about his poise and maturity.
Mantha - Good camp for a kid just drafted. Went back to the Q and is tearing it up.
Athanasiou - Generated great comments and reviews. Team moved him to center during camp. If he makes that transition, his value increases even more.
Ryan Sproul -- Very impressive skating with the puck in pre-season games. Defense is nowhere near ready though. Expect a year and a half in GR. Maybe more if the Wings screw around with his game.
Marchenko -- Just looked every solid and poised -- even with that brutal giveaway.
Almquist - Two goals were an eye opener. Still, he was brutal in his own end the last two games he played.
Nylen -- Didn't come over, but having a great start in Sweden.
McNulty -- Showed good mobility with that big frame

Holding Steady
Jurco -- Didn't do much to raise or hurt his stock. Big year coming up for Jurco.
Sheahan -- Doesn't seem especially big or physical. Skating was a surprise.
Ferraro -- Quickness. Looks like an NHLer, even if it's a depth guy.
Backman - Never came over.'
Frk -- Good in the rookie tournament.
Pulkkinen -- Skating has improved. But he gets smashed an awful lot. Hard worker.
Nedomlel --After initial reports from the prospect tournament were positive, we just didn't see much.
Paterson --
Callhahan -- Scoring that goal was nice. The problem is, with Sheahan, Jurco, and Nyquist and Ferraro and Tatar and now Glendening all trying to win a job -- where does a guy like Callahan ever get a shot?
Coreau --
LM Aubry -- Looked decent in the pre-season game
Nicastro -- Do or die season for Max.
Parkes --
Marshall --
De Haas --
Bertuzzi -- Looked bigger and quicker than I expected.
Nastasiuk -- Solid.
Pope --
Wheaton -
Melen
McKee
Nestrasil
Hudon

Falling
Calle Jarnkrok - No points in the AHL stint. Nothing exciting in the prospect tournament. Invisible in the NHL games. No prospect's stock fell as much as Jarnkrok's.
Tvrdon - Didn't show much. Talk he might go to juniors as an overager is never a good thing.
Nick Jensen - Not his fault. But he's competing with lots of guys for attention right now, and he's not getting any.
Bodin -- It was worth a shot, right?
McCollum -- Feels like the organization is giving up on him and I don't think that's a good idea.

Click to read more...

 

[Frk It]

Frk is going to be a riser. Blashill likes him and he is going to score goals.

Nothing Marchenko has done recently puts him as a "riser", think it's more appropriate to say he is "holding steady". Personal bias may have influenced that one though.

Janmark, Mcnulty, Frk, and Mantha will probably be the biggest risers by next summer.

Jarnkrok is a concern for me.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

I don't agree about Jarnkrok. He may be more subtle and defensively-oriented than advertised, but I really liked what I saw from him. He's in the right place a lot of the time and makes good decisions. He definitely needs to be more assertive, but I think he'll find that as the year goes on. Developing chemistry with his wingers will be key for him.

I think we'll see a big push from him in the latter half of the season.

But part of this nonsense about his stock falling is no doubt due to the fact that a lot of people had no idea what his game was actually like. People have to recalibrate their ideas of how Jarnkrok plays.

 

[Frk It]

I don't agree about Jarnkrok. He may be more subtle and defensively-oriented than advertised, but I really liked what I saw from him. He's in the right place a lot of the time and makes good decisions. He definitely needs to be more assertive, but I think he'll find that as the year goes on. Developing chemistry with his wingers will be key for him.

I think we'll see a big push from him in the latter half of the season.

But part of this nonsense about his stock falling is no doubt due to the fact that a lot of people had no idea what his game was actually like.

I hear what you are saying about Jarnkrok, but the way he is trending is not great.

That may mean nothing in the long run though.

I remember watching Jurco towards the first 1/2 of last season and thinking "What the hell are people talking about", he really didn't look to me to match with the way people talked about him. But then as the season went on he hit a switch and really just took his game to another level.

So maybe something like that could happen with Jarnkrok.

I haven't really seen the offensive side game people speak about, but I'm hoping that is coming soon.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

I don't agree about Jarnkrok. He may be more subtle and defensively-oriented than advertised, but I really liked what I saw from him. He's in the right place a lot of the time and makes good decisions. He definitely needs to be more assertive, but I think he'll find that as the year goes on. Developing chemistry with his wingers will be key for him.

I think we'll see a big push from him in the latter half of the season.

But part of this nonsense about his stock falling is no doubt due to the fact that a lot of people had no idea what his game was actually like. People have to recalibrate their ideas of how Jarnkrok plays.

ANyone who watched Jarnkrok play in the NHL, prospect tournament and pre-season would not say Jarnkrok is our best prospect.

Considering that's where he's ranked on many lists, I think it's 100 percent fair to say that his stock is dropping.

As for being subtle -- that sounds like something Malik would write when he's making excuses for a player who isn't living up to expectations.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

Frk is going to be a riser. Blashill likes him and he is going to score goals.

Nothing Marchenko has done recently puts him as a "riser", think it's more appropriate to say he is "holding steady". Personal bias may have influenced that one though.

Janmark, Mcnulty, Frk, and Mantha will probably be the biggest risers by next summer.

Jarnkrok is a concern for me.

In both prospect games I watched Marchenko was every bit as good as Ouellet.
In the NHL game, Marchenko was very good, except his blunder.
Check the GDT- I wasn't alone in my assessment.

I hope Frk is a riser. My memory of him in the preseason is sketchy. Did he play the first or second game?

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

ANyone who watched Jarnkrok play in the NHL, prospect tournament and pre-season would not say Jarnkrok is our best prospect.

Considering that's where he's ranked on many lists, I think it's 100 percent fair to say that his stock is dropping.

As for being subtle -- that sounds like something Malik would write when he's making excuses for a player who isn't living up to expectations.

What's interesting is the relatively persistent rumor that certain Wings site rankings are highly influenced by the organization's actual rankings. That would indicate that Jarnkrok is valued highly by the Wings, and that's something that seems to track with regard to media coverage of him. What's more, the Wings have watched him all along. In fact, Hakan was the guy spending time on Jarnkrok.

Do you think the Wings organization has soured on him too? or are we going to doubt Hakan's scouting reports all the while? Of course, there's always door number 3: the Wings organization values Jarnkrok because they're dumb.

I think where you go wrong with this line of reasoning is that you honestly think you can tell if Jarnkrok is a good prospect or not based on the prospect tournament (which, if you actually managed to get anything substantive out of those grainy videos, you're a superscout; no, you're a supersuperscout) and the preseason. Myself, I'm not convinced you can get a good read on new European guys until they've settled down with the system and their team and linemates. It's a lot to take in, and not a lot of time in which to do it.

Maybe you didn't see what you wanted to see in these preseason games, but it's a stretch to throw out Jarnkrok's excellent track record based on them. It's unlikely that he's been excellent to this point and has just completely hit a wall and become mediocre. It's much more likely that he has to learn to adjust.

but I do concede that's a much less sexy point.

edit: it's also worth pointing out that if the preseason is evidence that Jarnkrok sucks, it's also evidence that the vast majority of this Wings team is just awful at ice hockey in general and that we'll be drafting top 5.

 

[InjuredChoker]

What's interesting is the relatively persistent rumor that certain Wings site rankings are highly influenced by the organization's actual rankings. That would indicate that Jarnkrok is valued highly by the Wings, and that's something that seems to track with regard to media coverage of him. What's more, the Wings have watched him all along. In fact, Hakan was the guy spending time on Jarnkrok.

Do you think the Wings organization has soured on him too? or are we going to doubt Hakan's scouting reports all the while? Of course, there's always door number 3: the Wings organization values Jarnkrok because they're dumb.

I think where you go wrong with this line of reasoning is that you honestly think you can tell if Jarnkrok is a good prospect or not based on the prospect tournament (which, if you actually managed to get anything substantive out of those grainy videos, you're a superscout; no, you're a supersuperscout) and the preseason. Myself, I'm not convinced you can get a good read on new European guys until they've settled down with the system and their team and linemates. It's a lot to take in, and not a lot of time in which to do it.

Maybe you didn't see what you wanted to see in these preseason games, but it's a stretch to throw out Jarnkrok's excellent track record based on them. It's unlikely that he's been excellent to this point and has just completely hit a wall and become mediocre. It's much more likely that he has to learn to adjust.

but I do concede that's a much less sexy point.

edit: it's also worth pointing out that if the preseason is evidence that Jarnkrok sucks, it's also evidence that the vast majority of this Wings team is just awful at ice hockey in general and that we'll be drafting top 5.

Nylander! More soft Swedes!

 

[ChadS]

I would rather make judgements based on an actual season rather than a pre-season... And I hope the Wings' front office would too.

 

[Henkka]

Nylen -- Didn't come over, but having a great start in Sweden.

Mattias Janmark-Nylen is just Janmark now. Not Nylen. Just like Magnus Pääjärvi-Svensson left that later part of the name and is known as Magnus Pääjärvi nowadays.

Tvrdon - Didn't show much. Talk he might go to juniors as an overager is never a good thing.

WHL has been running for a while now, and Tvrdon is still at Grand rapids. I think he'll stay there.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

What's interesting is the relatively persistent rumor that certain Wings site rankings are highly influenced by the organization's actual rankings. That would indicate that Jarnkrok is valued highly by the Wings, and that's something that seems to track with regard to media coverage of him. What's more, the Wings have watched him all along. In fact, Hakan was the guy spending time on Jarnkrok.

Do you think the Wings organization has soured on him too? or are we going to doubt Hakan's scouting reports all the while? Of course, there's always door number 3: the Wings organization values Jarnkrok because they're dumb.

I think where you go wrong with this line of reasoning is that you honestly think you can tell if Jarnkrok is a good prospect or not based on the prospect tournament (which, if you actually managed to get anything substantive out of those grainy videos, you're a superscout; no, you're a supersuperscout) and the preseason. Myself, I'm not convinced you can get a good read on new European guys until they've settled down with the system and their team and linemates. It's a lot to take in, and not a lot of time in which to do it.

Maybe you didn't see what you wanted to see in these preseason games, but it's a stretch to throw out Jarnkrok's excellent track record based on them. It's unlikely that he's been excellent to this point and has just completely hit a wall and become mediocre. It's much more likely that he has to learn to adjust.

but I do concede that's a much less sexy point.

edit: it's also worth pointing out that if the preseason is evidence that Jarnkrok sucks, it's also evidence that the vast majority of this Wings team is just awful at ice hockey in general and that we'll be drafting top 5.

When I watch players -- I watch for things like winning board battles, competing on board battles, how fast they get up and down the ice. How close they are to the puck. Does the puck follow them around?

Good NHL prospects don't always produce. But they tend to stand out. Pulkkinen, while not producing, has been involved, has been getting his shots on goal and finding times to wind up for his slapshot against NHL checking -- these are important little things to note.

Jarkrok has done very little that stands outs.

Nobody is saying he's a bad prospect. But this is a "stock market."
Today, Jarnkrok's stock is down, in my book. It won't matter at all if he gets things going and is a big player for GR in March.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

I would rather make judgements based on an actual season rather than a pre-season... And I hope the Wings' front office would too.

I make judgments all year around. But this seems like an excellent milemarker

Post prospect camp/prospect tournament, pre-season --- it's a great time.
We get to see these prospects beside one-another -- against NHL level talent, against prospect level talent.
There are some prospects who I probably won't see again all year. And I'm sure that's true of many of us.

 

[Henkka]

I would rather make judgements based on an actual season rather than a pre-season... And I hope the Wings' front office would too.

Agree.

But all those pre-season judgments RedWingsNow did, were pretty much right. These are pre-season prospect stocks, we will have new stock values later. Järnkrok is not dead yet.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Even as a big Jarnkrok guy that did see some things I like about him, his stock has taken a hit. He just isn't generating offense, I know he is PP specialist and isn't seeing a lot of it, but his ability to hold onto the puck needs to result in him finding the right pass eventually and he is struggling with that.

On the whole OP list, some of them are guys we know him to be high on. For me Marchenko's stock didn't really rise any that was the player I expected. If you have turned in the KHL games, the savvy puck mover that has a physical element was there. It isn't like he came in and supplanted a guy like Ouellet who is in front of him. Sproul has always been rated on NHL potential more than readiness, so while solid Marchenko still is in kind of a holding pattern. It is just the depth we have at that position right now in the organization.

I would think Nasty was a riser in terms of this draft, thought he was very good in the prospect tournament.

 

[waltdetroit]

Time wise - if you are just rating prospects beginning July 2013 - I agree with almost all you say. If we are rating their careers with the Red Wings, i would have 4-5 more risers. I think Jarnkrok hasn't shown enough nor is strong enough to move up to the DRW. IMHO he will need 2 yrs or more in GRG before he's ready. I mean hes been good but I haven't seen anything compared to the hype that follows him.

 

[ProPAIN]

I don't agree on Jarnkrok either. Especially on such a small sample size in the AHL and a prospect tournament.

Btw, I think we should use Janmark instead of Nylen.

I would put Nastasiuk, Paterson and Janmark in the rising category (for me anyways). Didn't expect much from Nastasiuk, but he seems like a Ferraro type player for our future. Janmark looked like a typical Hakan pick, but I wasn't expecting him to make such an impact (that may be my lack of knowledge of the SEL though). Paterson is getting "best goalie in the OHL" talk lately.

I would put Hudon, Nestrasil, Aubry and Parkes in the falling category. It might be harsh, but I don't see them ever making the NHL.

 

[TheNextDaigle]

ANyone who watched Jarnkrok play in the NHL, prospect tournament and pre-season would not say Jarnkrok is our best prospect.

Considering that's where he's ranked on many lists, I think it's 100 percent fair to say that his stock is dropping.

As for being subtle -- that sounds like something Malik would write when he's making excuses for a player who isn't living up to expectations.

How many games does that entail? No offence, but if it is less than 20 games, your evaluation is close to WORTHLESS...

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

Not worried about Jarnkrok, we can give a better assessment of his play at the end of the season.

 

[GoAwayDanCleary]

You guys, its called the post preseason prospect stock market for a reason. Sure its a small sample size but that doesn't mean you aren't allowed to take anything from it.

Jarnkrok hasn't shown even a glimpse of offensive potential in any NA event so his stock, for now, is down with me.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

You guys, its called the post preseason prospect stock market for a reason. Sure its a small sample size but that doesn't mean you aren't allowed to take anything from it.

Jarnkrok hasn't shown even a glimpse of offensive potential in any NA event so his stock, for now, is down with me.

I guess we should get ready for the post post preseason prospect stock market, then!

 

[PullHard]

Sproul and Marchenko to "holding steady" are the only differences I make on my list

 

[Bench]

I guess we should get ready for the post post preseason prospect stock market, then!

Like the real stock market, perception sometimes has more influence than reality.