Post-Game Talk: Post Game Colorado Avalanche Vs Minnesota Wild Jan. 19/2013 7:00PM MST.

[RoyIsALegend]

I can't believe I recorded this game and put myself through that 2nd period, even after knowing the result.

Downie was so frustrating...

 

[The Kingslayer]

I can't believe I recorded this game and put myself through that 2nd period, even after knowing the result.

Downie was so frustrating...

It was painful to watch...but I did it too. Just to see where things went wrong.

 

[The Kingslayer]

At the exception of a goal against on a 5-3, where did TB falter? I thought he had a decent game all things considered.

PMB breakaway was the result of a terrible play by Barrie in the neutral zone. Everyone on the ice looked lost except Varlamov who came up with the save.

 

[Foppa2118]

Every player is going to make mistakes. When I said he didn't look awful at any point last year, I meant for extended periods or entire games. You can cherry pick out a terrible play from anyone in every single game. Unfortunately, his happened to come in OT.

I'm sorry to call you out on this, but saying you don't remember looking awful at any time, usually means any time, not extended periods of time. My point is that if someone remembered that play they would never use a sentence like not remember looking awful at any time.

I don't always remember things either, but I don't tell people they are wrong about a player when I may have forgotten one of the most painful moments of the season.

It's not about picking out one play, that was to show you the "soft" play that put a dagger in the team last year that I was talking about, and you replied with your statement about not remembering anything awful.

If I had a DVR with all the games, and the time to sit down and make a montage of all the mistakes he made last year I could easily do it, but I don't have the luxury of either of those things. If you disagree with me that they happened, that's fine there's nothing to argue over in that regard, but my point was that it doesn't make a great case for you when you didn't remember the OT play either.

Then again, I don't know what LAST season has to do with this season. He had a strong camp, and he's had a real strong year in the AHL.
Last season has to do with evaluating Barrie, because it's used as a bar for improvement. If he's still making the same mistakes, it's a problem, and he was still making the same mistakes. Looking lost in his positioning, chasing forwards around the ice in his own zone, skating his way with the puck into trouble instead of making simple plays, being overwhelmed in front of the net, and in the corners.

It's not an indication of whether he will ever round out his game, it's simply an indication of where his game is at now. It happened with enough regularity in the last game, I don't see any reason to give him another game and expect it to disappear forever.

Of course, they can send him down, and go with the exact same defense as last year. That sure seemed to get the Avs real far. Everyone knows what they have in the other defensemen on the team. Might as well see what Barrie brings to the table, because it's a hell of a lot different then what the other 6 bottom pairing guys the Avs are carrying can.

The exact same defense from last year argument doesn't really make much sense, since Barrie was part of that. O'Brien, Wilson, and likely even Hunwick are better options for bottom pairing defenseman at this point. Barrie can have his shot when injuries hit, not force him in there and ignore his mistakes, hoping they will eventually go away.

If I shouldn't base his NHL readiness off points in the AHL, then you shouldn't base his NHL readiness off last season (which has no bearing on anything right now) and a single game this season. I haven't even seen the posts about Barrie's mistakes in the AHL. Every time I go into the Lake Erie thread, everyone is raving about him.

I don't think that's a fair comparison at all. How can you say point production in the AHL, is as important as overall NHL performance from the season prior in terms of NHL readiness.

I mentioned this somewhere else here, but I don't put a lot of stock into AHL point production. There is just so many different factors that keep this from being an accurate way to evaluate their overall NHL game. Smaller players like Hensick or Cumiskey can light up the AHL, but have all their weaknesses exposed in the NHL, while more all around players like Shattenkirk can go scoreless in his AHL career, get called up and instantly become an NHL regular. Barrie is having his weaknesses exposed, and not putting up any offense. He simply should not be playing in the lineup over O'Brien, or even Hunwick, especially when the margin for error is that much smaller with a 48 game season.

Offense isn't Barrie's problem anyway, despite him having 0 points in 11 career games. His problem IMO, as I mentioned is his defense. It's beyond the point where it can be an acceptable trade off for offense. Especially when said offense hasn't been there.

In a perfect world, Barrie wouldn't have even been out on the PK last game. That's not why he's even in the NHL. Unfortunately, O'Byrne and Hejda can't stay out of the box, and Johnson knocked himself out, so he was put in that situation. To make matters worse, it was a 5 on 3, and for some reason, Barrie was covering the front of the net instead of Hejda, the other defenseman on the ice who was far more suited for that job.

I won't disagree with you on that. He had to be out there, Sacco had no choice. He did the best he could, and it will likely never be his strong suit, but it was just one example of an area of his game where he struggles. Containing forwards, and preventing easy rebound tap ins applies just as much to 5 on 5 play for a defenseman.

Barrie isn't up here for his defense. He's up here because outside of Johnson and occasionally Wilson, no other defenseman on this team can provide offense. I'm sure the Avs organization knows he'll have his hiccups defensively, but the team has a need for the offense he can provide and that's why he'll probably be up here for a bit. If you want the Avs to continue dressing 6 defensemen who can clear the crease but can't make a pass more than 5 feet, then it looks like we're in for more of the same from last year.

Absolutely. It's a HUGE need, and I don't have a big issue with them giving him a shot for one game, especially when he was one of the most in shape players on the team. What I will have an issue with is him continuing to play in the lineup. He's not providing enough offense to make up for the rest of his game, and the rest of his game is not just at a level that can be acceptable in a 3rd pairing role like O'Brien or Hunwick, it is a few nothces below that. It's Hunwick's game when he first came to Colorado. He's just too soft and easy to play against, and it's on nearly every shift.

The team can't afford that right now, and him working on these holes in his game playing 1st or 2nd pairing minutes in Erie is a perfectly acceptable alternative. There's not reason to force him into the lineup for offense at this point in his career, when he's not scoring, and when Hunwick can play the same role offensviely, and even O'Brien put up 20 points year.

 

[Foppa2118]

I said quite the opposite a few posts above my previous post (the one with if not showing improvement in 15-25 games then send him down again as he then has had enough time to get used to the NHL and should have adjusted accordingly), so I'm done arguing with you as you clearly don't read my posts.

Do you read what you are posting, or do you expect me just to gloss over what you're saying?

I said that I won't get into an argument with you over your opinion, if your opinion is that they should keep playing a defenseman that is making mistakes, instead of sending him down.

Which is exactly what you said in your first post that advocated giving him 15-25 games to prove himself, and exactly what you just said in this post, again advocating giving him 15-25 games.

If that's your opinion, than any debate over the issue wasn't going to get far, that's what I was saying.

You willing to play Barrie for 25 games waiting for improvement, which is over half the season, is absolutely ridiculous. If Sacco gave Barrie that many games without improving, this board would lynch him, and rightfully so.

You cherry picked one bad play and took it as some kind of a fail proof evidance that he was subpar last season. That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. He's was a rookie defenseman who looked very good considering his experiance at the highest level and the talent of the players around him.

You're jumping into an argument that didn't involve you, and not following the chain of commentary.

I wasn't cherry picking anything. The poster said he didn't remember ANY awful plays from last year. I showed him one. Also being the one I was referring to in the post he quoted.

As I said in my previous post, there are countless plays form last year, and even from the last game where he looked completely out of place, or played it wrong. I'm not going to dedicate a whole day to making a montage for you if you don't remember them, and can't see them happening in real time.

Unless you're asserting that he doesn't make any more mistakes than the average defenseman, just stop with this ridiculous argument because you don't have a point. All you're doing is saying I'm wrong, and not supplying any evidence or rationale to back it up. I'm the only one showing or pointing out what he's doing to back up my point. We both see it differently, quit talking about it unless you want to provide a reason beyond I think they should play him. If that's the only reason you believe that, fine. Nothing left to talk about.

 

[twostroke27]

Hmmm...I'm honestly surprised about how hard everyone is being on Barrie. Both myself and my brother we impressed with him overall as was my friend who isn't an avs fan. I thought he did pretty well overall. Oh well, everyone is entitled to their opinion I guess.

Downie made me almost go into a blind fit of rage though.

 

[Foppa2118]

Hmmm...I'm honestly surprised about how hard everyone is being on Barrie. Both myself and my brother we impressed with him overall as was my friend who isn't an avs fan. I thought he did pretty well overall. Oh well, everyone is entitled to their opinion I guess.

Downie made me almost go into a blind fit of rage though.

He just needs to work on his game that's all. Hes still too vulnerable defensivley still and if Sacco is telling the truth when he says he doesnt have time to be patient with players this season, he should be sent down rather than sitting in the box like last year. He's not destined to be a bust or anything.

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

Hmmm...I'm honestly surprised about how hard everyone is being on Barrie. Both myself and my brother we impressed with him overall as was my friend who isn't an avs fan. I thought he did pretty well overall. Oh well, everyone is entitled to their opinion I guess.

Downie made me almost go into a blind fit of rage though.

Barrie really underwhelmed me. I liked that he carried the puck well, but aside from that he was useless all game from my perspective. I still don't get what people see in him over Elliott, who carried the puck well AND had a wicked shot.

I'd rather Barrie spent more time in LE and Hunwick played at this point. Maybe even running 7-dmen in order to be sure that we don't run into another EJ/ROB situation where Barrie is on the PK.

 

[Frenchy]

Someone should make a GDT or at the very least a pre-game thread.
I'm at the office , i dont have the time to make something nice and i dont want to open a thread just fun the fun of having a thread .

we should close this thread and open a new on for tonight's game .