Post-Game Talk: Post Game Colorado Avalanche Vs Minnesota Wild Jan. 19/2013 7:00PM MST.

[Foppa2118]

It annoys me when people start making statement about players, the team, and lines based on one game.

People were saying that Barrie isn't ready. The guy played one game and made quite a few nice decisions. Granted, he made quite a few head scratchers, but it's still only one game and he's still a rookie. Give him time before we make decisions about him.

Pluses from the game-

Before the wipeout Johnson looked great, when he came back he was so-so. Let's hope he shakes it off and plays dominant for the rest of the year.

Duchene looked good. Nothing too fancy, no spins. Played great defensively and hustled.

Stastny made quite a few nice passes. He could have a good year if his line mates start finishing. He does need to become a little less predictable and take a good shot every now and then like on that two on one. Really telegraphed that pass.

Varlamov looked good besides being left on his own a few times.

If we don't become more disciplined we are going to lose alot of games in a similar fashion.

You're acting as if this is the first time people have seen him. He looked awful at times to end the seasons last year, and didn't look any better in the last game. He is hurting the team out there more than he is helping it. He should be sent down to work on his game.

This one game thing is crap in his situation. He's one of the handful of players that is in actual game shape, he shouldn't be overly nervous with all the time he spent with the Avs last year, and his reactions should be as sharp as possible by now after playing 36 games with Erie this year.

 

[henchman21]

This team sorely needs a good offensive defensemen. Right now the only real options are Barrie or Elliott. Neither are really ready for the NHL. I think you have to give Barrie a stint to see if he can work it out, if he can't you have to bring Elliott into the fold to see if he can. It is either that or find a defensemen through a trade.

 

[Nihiliste]

You're acting as if this is the first time people have seen him. He looked awful at times to end the seasons last year, and didn't look any better in the last game. He is hurting the team out there more than he is helping it. He should be sent down to work on his game.

This one game thing is crap in his situation. He's one of the handful of players that is in actual game shape, he shouldn't be overly nervous with all the time he spent with the Avs last year, and his reactions should be as sharp as possible by now after playing 36 games with Erie this year.

Regardless of being in game shape and getting a 10 game audition last year, I don't think its unrealistic to expect that he still night need a little bit of time to adjust to the increased speed of the game / increased level of competition / increased physicality / new teammates.

I agree that he was awful on Saturday though.

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

You're acting as if this is the first time people have seen him. He looked awful at times to end the seasons last year, and didn't look any better in the last game. He is hurting the team out there more than he is helping it. He should be sent down to work on his game.

It was one game. I don't recall him looking awful at any time last year. I remember being pretty impressed with his play, despite him not scoring any points. His play in Lake Erie and in training camp earned him a shot with the Avs, and to send him down after a single game would be ridiculous.

 

[CantTouchThis]

I didn't see Barrie commit that many mistakes. I was however impressed with his puck moving skills and his stride. Can't fault him for any goals. And hey, he was a +1? So seriously, let's stop killing our prospects and let them develop. I'm happy to see him play, and would gladly give him a few extra minutes next game. Let's not forget he's only 21; mistakes will be made

 

[Nzap]

I agree that he was awful on Saturday though.

I am a bit mystified by these comments as I was OK with his performance.

I mean it wasn't great and he made a few mistakes, but a young d-man is never going to learn to play in the NHL without playing in the NHL.

He has played almost 2 seasons of AHL hockey already, so it isn't unreasonable at all to play him now in the NHL so that he can first get adjusted to it, and then afterwards show us 100% if he can adjust and if he can flourish.

It seems like people are all the time saying that we should keep him and him in the AHL for seasoning, but that cycle has to stop sometimes, and all players won't come out like Landeskog and put the entire ice on fire.
It takes time to learn to play in the NHL, and sometimes the best way to do that is to actually play in the NHL.

I am perfectly content seeing him in the NHL, and I expect him to improve if he gets to play more.
If by game 15-25 he still makes similar mistakes then we can assess the situation again. I mean, we won't win the cup this year so why not try to develop the talent we need/the talent that is good to have when we actually need it?

 

[Foppa2118]

It was one game. I don't recall him looking awful at any time last year. I remember being pretty impressed with his play, despite him not scoring any points. His play in Lake Erie and in training camp earned him a shot with the Avs, and to send him down after a single game would be ridiculous.

With all due respect, you just lost all credibility regarding Barrie with this statement. There were many many occasions where he looked bad/not ready last year, most obviously the extremely soft play for the puck in the corner that he turned over and directly led to the goal that put the dagger in the Avs playoff hopes.

With the short season especially there is no way he should be back in the lineup the next game unless O'Brien and Hunwick are ridiculously out of shape. He shouldn't be sitting in the stands, he should be playing with LEM.

 

[Freudian]

I thought Barrie was ok last year, especially since he played the last ten games when the team as whole sucked.

 

[member 116861]

With all due respect, you just lost all credibility regarding Barrie with this statement. There were many many occasions where he looked bad/not ready last year, most obviously the extremely soft play for the puck in the corner that he turned over and directly led to the goal that put the dagger in the Avs playoff hopes.

PJ Stock agrees.

 

[CantTouchThis]

I mean, we won't win the cup this year

How could you say that!!!!!?????

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

With all due respect, you just lost all credibility regarding Barrie with this statement. There were many many occasions where he looked bad/not ready last year, most obviously the extremely soft play for the puck in the corner that he turned over and directly led to the goal that put the dagger in the Avs playoff hopes.

With the short season especially there is no way he should be back in the lineup the next game unless O'Brien and Hunwick are ridiculously out of shape. He shouldn't be sitting in the stands, he should be playing with LEM.

I thought he looked fine last year. Sure, he had some hiccups, but what rookie defenseman doesn't? Obviously you disagree, to the point where I've apparently lost all credibility on the subject, so I'm not sure why I'm even responding to you.

But what does last year have to do with anything? Barrie has been one of the top defensemen in the AHL this year, and had a solid camp (I know, I was there). He earned a spot on the team. To dump him after one game seems like a rash decision. The Avs know what they have in O'Brien and Hunwick. We all know what they have in those two. The reward that Barrie could bring to the team is much higher than those two.

 

[Pokecheque]

I wouldn't call Barrie horrible, but yeah, he wasn't ready for the NHL. No way to know except to throw him into the fire and see how he does.

I wouldn't call his play in the corner "soft" either. He was scrappy and fought for everything...it's just that his lack of size made him especially easy to push around, and still does, as evidenced by Dany Heatley getting to a rebound in the crease despite Tyson's best efforts to hold him off. Not sure if there's any real solution to that. One thing I'll say is that for a smaller defenseman, John-Michael Liles was a lot harder to knock off the puck than most gave him credit for. Unfortunately not all diminutive blueliners (Cumiskey) have that ability.

 

[CantTouchThis]

as evidenced by Dany Heatley getting to a rebound in the crease despite Tyson's best efforts to hold him off.

It was a 5-3, positioning on a 5-3 is incredibly tough. He's got more than one person to worry about.

 

[hoserthehorrible]

It was a 5-3, positioning on a 5-3 is incredibly tough. He's got more than one person to worry about. Plus, on top of this, it was a 5-3... What the **** was he doing on the ice?
Sacco...

O'Byrne was in the box and Johnson was in the locker room recovering from his crash into the boards; they had no choice but to play the four Dmen that were available for the 5 on 3.

Also, it wasn't about who to cover or trying to cover multiple people on the 5 on 3. Barrie was clearly trying to prevent Heatley from scoring and Heatly flat out-muscled him. It was a physical mismatch the Barrie clearly lost.

 

[Foppa2118]

I thought he looked fine last year. Sure, he had some hiccups, but what rookie defenseman doesn't? Obviously you disagree, to the point where I've apparently lost all credibility on the subject, so I'm not sure why I'm even responding to you.

But what does last year have to do with anything? Barrie has been one of the top defensemen in the AHL this year, and had a solid camp (I know, I was there). He earned a spot on the team. To dump him after one game seems like a rash decision. The Avs know what they have in O'Brien and Hunwick. We all know what they have in those two. The reward that Barrie could bring to the team is much higher than those two.

You've lost credibility regarding Barrie because you said "I don't recall him looking awful at any time last year."

This is in OT against Vancouver with only a few games to go in the playoff hunt last year. Go to the end, or click on Higgins' goal on the right.

http://video.avalanche.nhl.com/videocenter/console?hlg=20112012,2,1125&lang=en

This is going to sound extremely condescending but I don't know how else to put it. I don't think you guys are watching defensive play closely enough. He's got promise but he's too big a liability defensively still. It's the same reason people think Wilson is a really good defenseman, or missed all of Brett Clark's mistakes.

He's too easy to play against at this point in his development and the Avs dont have the luxury of a full season to be waiting for him tk prove otherwise. Unless it directly leads to a goal some people can't see how forwards just have their way with him, and swing momentum towards their team because of it.

He can't contain forwards at all, he can't clear the net at all which led to the PP goal against the Wild. His only hope is to hone his instincts enough to break up plays before they happen with his positioning and stuck work, and its nowhere near the level needed now. He's also still turning the puck over instead of making smart passes. He just needs to keep working on it with Erie.

You shouldn't base his NHL readiness on points in the AHL, especially when the AHL thread here has plenty of posters complaining about bad plays and turnovers he's still making.

 

[CantTouchThis]

O'Byrne was in the box and Johnson was in the locker room recovering from his crash into the boards; they had no choice but to play the four Dmen that were available for the 5 on 3.

Also, it wasn't about who to cover or trying to cover multiple people on the 5 on 3. Barrie was clearly trying to prevent Heatley from scoring and Heatly flat out-muscled him. It was a physical mismatch the Barrie clearly lost.

good call, Changed it.

I still think he just got caught on the wrong side of the puck. they were playing the inverted V so he was the only one back there. He had to worry about which side the puck went (to the right, or left of the net) and he obviously picked wrong, miss judged, and got caught. Still though, its far from a week goal by him. Plus, on the first goal, i think it was johnson that got caught in the exact same predicament, and he wasn't on a 5-3...

 

[hoserthehorrible]

good call, Changed it.

I still think he just got caught on the wrong side of the puck. they were playing the inverted V so he was the only one back there. He had to worry about which side the puck went (to the right, or left of the net) and he obviously picked wrong, miss judged, and got caught. Still though, its far from a week goal by him. Plus, on the first goal, i think it was johnson that got caught in the exact same predicament, and he wasn't on a 5-3...

On the first goal it was Zanon that got beat in front of the net. He was in decent position but when the puck came into the crease he was leaning back on his heels and went to stick check the opponent and whiffed. Had he played the body, or not whiffed on his stick check, then he would have likely been able to prevent the goal.

You could see Zanon was pissed that he mis-played the stick check after the goal. In Zanon's case he wasn't out-muscled, he simply misplayed the situation and he knew it. In Barrie's case he knew what to do he simply wasn't big or strong enough to do it.

 

[Ivan13]

With all due respect, you just lost all credibility regarding Barrie with this statement. There were many many occasions where he looked bad/not ready last year, most obviously the extremely soft play for the puck in the corner that he turned over and directly led to the goal that put the dagger in the Avs playoff hopes.

With the short season especially there is no way he should be back in the lineup the next game unless O'Brien and Hunwick are ridiculously out of shape. He shouldn't be sitting in the stands, he should be playing with LEM.

Quite a hilarious statment considering that Mars is one of the most, if not the most knowladgable poster in our forum.

I thought Barrie was ok last year, especially since he played the last ten games when the team as whole sucked.

Agreed wholeheartedly.

 

[Foppa2118]

Quite a hilarious statment considering that Mars is one of the most, if not the most knowladgable poster in our forum.

Firstly you dont have to tell me about other posters on this board, Ive been here as long as most of them. I dont have anything against anyone here and think Mars is usually quite informed. I wasn't referring to his credibility on anything but what were talking about.

Explain to me how someone can have an accurate impression of Barrie if they are strongly disagreeing that hes not ready, and say they don't remember him looking awful at any time last year.

Go to Higgins OT goal and tell me is this a bad play that may have ended the Avs playoff hopes, or not?

http://video.avalanche.nhl.com/videocenter/console?hlg=20112012,2,1125&lang=en

 

[Nzap]

Go to Higgins OT goal and tell me is this a bad play that may have ended the Avs playoff hopes, or not?

http://video.avalanche.nhl.com/videocenter/console?hlg=20112012,2,1125&lang=en

Of course that was a bad play.
But if a rookie can't make bad plays in the NHL that team will never have any of their prospects make the team.
If we don't allow Barrie to play despite him making some mistakes, we will never be able to use him as an NHLler.

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

You've lost credibility regarding Barrie because you said "I don't recall him looking awful at any time last year."

This is in OT against Vancouver with only a few games to go in the playoff hunt last year. Go to the end, or click on Higgins' goal on the right.

http://video.avalanche.nhl.com/videocenter/console?hlg=20112012,2,1125&lang=en

This is going to sound extremely condescending but I don't know how else to put it. I don't think you guys are watching defensive play closely enough. He's got promise but he's too big a liability defensively still. It's the same reason people think Wilson is a really good defenseman, or missed all of Brett Clark's mistakes.

He's too easy to play against at this point in his development and the Avs dont have the luxury of a full season to be waiting for him tk prove otherwise. Unless it directly leads to a goal some people can't see how forwards just have their way with him, and swing momentum towards their team because of it.

He can't contain forwards at all, he can't clear the net at all which led to the PP goal against the Wild. His only hope is to hone his instincts enough to break up plays before they happen with his positioning and stuck work, and its nowhere near the level needed now. He's also still turning the puck over instead of making smart passes. He just needs to keep working on it with Erie.

You shouldn't base his NHL readiness on points in the AHL, especially when the AHL thread here has plenty of posters complaining about bad plays and turnovers he's still making.

Every player is going to make mistakes. When I said he didn't look awful at any point last year, I meant for extended periods or entire games. You can cherry pick out a terrible play from anyone in every single game. Unfortunately, his happened to come in OT.

Then again, I don't know what LAST season has to do with this season. He had a strong camp, and he's had a real strong year in the AHL. Of course, they can send him down, and go with the exact same defense as last year. That sure seemed to get the Avs real far. Everyone knows what they have in the other defensemen on the team. Might as well see what Barrie brings to the table, because it's a hell of a lot different then what the other 6 bottom pairing guys the Avs are carrying can.

If I shouldn't base his NHL readiness off points in the AHL, then you shouldn't base his NHL readiness off last season (which has no bearing on anything right now) and a single game this season. I haven't even seen the posts about Barrie's mistakes in the AHL. Every time I go into the Lake Erie thread, everyone is raving about him.

In a perfect world, Barrie wouldn't have even been out on the PK last game. That's not why he's even in the NHL. Unfortunately, O'Byrne and Hejda can't stay out of the box, and Johnson knocked himself out, so he was put in that situation. To make matters worse, it was a 5 on 3, and for some reason, Barrie was covering the front of the net instead of Hejda, the other defenseman on the ice who was far more suited for that job.

Barrie isn't up here for his defense. He's up here because outside of Johnson and occasionally Wilson, no other defenseman on this team can provide offense. I'm sure the Avs organization knows he'll have his hiccups defensively, but the team has a need for the offense he can provide and that's why he'll probably be up here for a bit. If you want the Avs to continue dressing 6 defensemen who can clear the crease but can't make a pass more than 5 feet, then it looks like we're in for more of the same from last year.

 

[Foppa2118]

Of course that was a bad play.
But if a rookie can't make bad plays in the NHL that team will never have any of their prospects make the team.
If we don't allow Barrie to play despite him making some mistakes, we will never be able to use him as an NHLler.

Not the point of the clip. If you think allowing a defenseman to keep playing despite making mistakes in a 48 game season, instead of sending him down that's your opinion, and nothing I say or show you.will change that.

 

[Ivan13]

Firstly you dont have to tell me about other posters on this board, Ive been here as long as most of them. I dont have anything against anyone here and think Mars is usually quite informed. I wasn't referring to his credibility on anything but what were talking about.

Explain to me how someone can have an accurate impression of Barrie if they are strongly disagreeing that hes not ready, and say they don't remember him looking awful at any time last year.

Go to Higgins OT goal and tell me is this a bad play that may have ended the Avs playoff hopes, or not?

http://video.avalanche.nhl.com/videocenter/console?hlg=20112012,2,1125&lang=en

You cherry picked one bad play and took it as some kind of a fail proof evidance that he was subpar last season. That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. He's was a rookie defenseman who looked very good considering his experiance at the highest level and the talent of the players around him.

 

[Nzap]

Not the point of the clip. If you think allowing a defenseman to keep playing despite making mistakes in a 48 game season, instead of sending him down that's your opinion, and nothing I say or show you.will change that.

I said quite the opposite a few posts above my previous post (the one with if not showing improvement in 15-25 games then send him down again as he then has had enough time to get used to the NHL and should have adjusted accordingly), so I'm done arguing with you as you clearly don't read my posts.

 

[CantTouchThis]

At the exception of a goal against on a 5-3, where did TB falter? I thought he had a decent game all things considered.