Possible return of the Quebec Nordiques?

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SensGod

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Quebec, Winnipeg, Halifax, Hamilton, etc...

All these cities are better for hockey than the likes of Nashville, Fort Lauderdale, Raleigh obviously...heck...I'd even throw in Pittsburg and New Jersey at this point.

On Monday night...when the best team in the NHL was in town for the Panthers they could barely get 10 000 people to show up for the game. It's obvious that Mr. Bettman's "sun belt" experiment has failed...move on NHL...get back into more traditional hockey markets.

Geeez...even Portland would be better than most of these cities.
 

Brad*

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Some of the relocation arguments genuinely make me laugh. The expectations some people had for the new franchises, in new markets, is absolutely absurd. It's almost as if they expected to take a new team, put it in a market like the South which does not have a history with hockey, and have them sell out every game from the start. That's just not how it works. It takes time. All of those franchises in the south are building their fanbase as we speak. They don't have the great attendance figures that Toronto has, because they don't have anywhere near the history or relationship with the game of hockey as those big Canadian cities do. The whole point of given the Southern cities franchise was to build that support, and that will take quite a while. It does not happen over night, and it certainly doesn't happen quickly when most of the Southern franchises are poorly run and crap teams year in and year our (with some exceptions). It also amuses me that many are under the impression that attendance figures are the most important aspect of the viability of a franchise.

Another thing that annoys me is the "play to the heart strings" stuff that some fans do. OK, you lost your team due to relocation, but I'm sorry to say, that's life. Teams move. No number of threads on HF professing your love for the NHL and your disdain for the South will bring them back. The team would only return if the NHL thought it was a viable market for a pro hockey team. What many seem to conveniently ignore is that these teams all moved for a reason, and that reason was not to spite the fans. The NHL leaders did not wake up one morning and say, "I feel like moving the Nords today." In order for those teams to come back, they'd prove that they can be a viable business, as well as a viable sports team.

And the "it wasn't fair that our team was taken! that was mean!" act doesn't really go over that well when you also propose to relocate another team so you can have one back in your city. What about those fans, is it fair to them? Because there are plenty of loyal fans in those Southern markets, and taking their team away would be just as "unfair."
 

Pens75

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SensGod said:
Quebec, Winnipeg, Halifax, Hamilton, etc...

All these cities are better for hockey than the likes of Nashville, Fort Lauderdale, Raleigh obviously...heck...I'd even throw in Pittsburg and New Jersey at this point.

On Monday night...when the best team in the NHL was in town for the Panthers they could barely get 10 000 people to show up for the game. It's obvious that Mr. Bettman's "sun belt" experiment has failed...move on NHL...get back into more traditional hockey markets.

Geeez...even Portland would be better than most of these cities.

:D

A beautiful example of an ignorant hockey fan. (and from Canada to boot)

Hockey History Lesson 200 miles south of the Canadian border
 
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jester099

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futurcorerock said:
:shakehead

Oklahoma City Oilers

Kansas City Penguins

Houston Flames

...

Sorry, but the southern US has a much better infastructure for supporting pro teams than Quebec City, or any other non-pro sports Canadian city for that matter.

Also, They have money and investors.

Best of luck to QC, but I think they are in the running with American investors, and that is a fast race when you consider who's involved. Where were they in 1995 when they could've locked the Nords into QC with a cup win?


Yeah... why let lack of interest from fans get in the way of franchises in the south of the US.
 

Chootoi

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SammyTheBull said:
The mayor has been against the idea of a new sports venue in quebec city but Marcel said on RDS that he has a good relationship with her. Maybe he will presuade her ;)

never mind marcel, get sean avery in there - there'd be a team in quebec city ready to go for the '06 season.
 

QcS

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Guess there's no smoke without fire, we are hearing on the radio this morning that apparently Guy Laliberté (of Cirque du soleil) would be interested in investing in a New Colisée complex in Québec city, which would not only have the Québec NOrdiques but Cirque du soleil shows, rock concerts, etc..
 

QcS

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Brad said:
Some of the relocation arguments genuinely make me laugh. The expectations some people had for the new franchises, in new markets, is absolutely absurd. It's almost as if they expected to take a new team, put it in a market like the South which does not have a history with hockey, and have them sell out every game from the start. That's just not how it works. It takes time. All of those franchises in the south are building their fanbase as we speak. "

Some of them are. We should maybe focus on teams like the Washington Capitals.. who are AWFUL in terms of attendance. It's been like that for a few years now.
Washington is not a hockey city. Without their rich owner who had a scary experience in a plane and decided he wanted to win a cup at any price in Washington, they would be seriously considered for moving as we speak.

They have one of the best and most exciting young players we've seen in a VERY long time on the team right now and they can only manage an average of 10000 fans a game.
 

jester099

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Brad said:
Some of the relocation arguments genuinely make me laugh. The expectations some people had for the new franchises, in new markets, is absolutely absurd. It's almost as if they expected to take a new team, put it in a market like the South which does not have a history with hockey, and have them sell out every game from the start. That's just not how it works. It takes time. All of those franchises in the south are building their fanbase as we speak. They don't have the great attendance figures that Toronto has, because they don't have anywhere near the history or relationship with the game of hockey as those big Canadian cities do. The whole point of given the Southern cities franchise was to build that support, and that will take quite a while. It does not happen over night, and it certainly doesn't happen quickly when most of the Southern franchises are poorly run and crap teams year in and year our (with some exceptions). It also amuses me that many are under the impression that attendance figures are the most important aspect of the viability of a franchise.

Another thing that annoys me is the "play to the heart strings" stuff that some fans do. OK, you lost your team due to relocation, but I'm sorry to say, that's life. Teams move. No number of threads on HF professing your love for the NHL and your disdain for the South will bring them back. The team would only return if the NHL thought it was a viable market for a pro hockey team. What many seem to conveniently ignore is that these teams all moved for a reason, and that reason was not to spite the fans. The NHL leaders did not wake up one morning and say, "I feel like moving the Nords today." In order for those teams to come back, they'd prove that they can be a viable business, as well as a viable sports team.

And the "it wasn't fair that our team was taken! that was mean!" act doesn't really go over that well when you also propose to relocate another team so you can have one back in your city. What about those fans, is it fair to them? Because there are plenty of loyal fans in those Southern markets, and taking their team away would be just as "unfair."

What you say is true, it takes time to develop markets and everything, but why try to build a market somewhere they've never seen ice other than in their drinks when you have thousands of people north of the border praying every day that they get a hockey team...

It just seams wrong to me. Some market already exist that aren't served right now, why try to build some new ones ?

The economics of the game as changed with the new CBA, and cities that couldn't support hockey teams financialy now can.

I think it's time to bring back hockey in those cities where everybody already cares about the sport.

Saying Dallas is a great hockey market because they fill the arena often is just wrong IMHO.

I'm not sure everybody in Dallas even knows there is a hockey team. The city is just big enough so that a small fraction of the population that actualy know hockey exists can fill the arena...
 

NyQuil

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Wingman said:
A beautiful example of an ignorant hockey fan. (and from Canada to boot)

Hockey History Lesson 200 miles south of the Canadian border

Pittsburgh's problems are easily solved.

1. Their head coach is on thin ice.

2. They have another head coach who is a living legend.

Solution:

Simply make Bill Cowher the coach of the Penguins AND the Steelers. It's not as if he'd be any worse than Ed Olczyk. And you might get confused Steelers fans showing up for tailgate parties at the Igloo.
 

Jordoe28

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Troy McClure said:
So would I. Why build a giant, expensive arena when there is no team to fill it?


I say take one from Canada. The Quebec Senators has a nice ring to it.

Why would you do that, the Sens are among the top 3 in attendance this year, and all Canadian teams are among the top 10.
 

SensGod

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NyQuil said:
Pittsburgh's problems are easily solved.

1. Their head coach is on thin ice.

2. They have another head coach who is a living legend.

Solution:

Simply make Bill Cowher the coach of the Penguins AND the Steelers. It's not as if he'd be any worse than Ed Olczyk. And you might get confused Steelers fans showing up for tailgate parties at the Igloo.

Oh yeah...and don't forget that the city needs to give enough of a rat's *** to build them a new arena.

The fans and players can care all they want...but it's obvious that the city of Pittsburg doesn't really care about them.
 

irisheyes555

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Chili said:
If you want to compare attendance figures they are here.

The most interesting number I found is the worst draw on the road is ... the defending Stanley Cup champs... go figure.

so much for that southern hockey doesn't sell as well as others. the bottom five in home average: Wash, NYI, Anah, StL, and NJ. 2 from NYC area and one from LA.

and as a side note how does Calagry average 12% more than the stadium is rated as maximum. what fire marshall would let you put 2k+ standing room only tickets on a consistent basis. maybe if it a football stadium you could get away with that many extras on a one time basis. but to average 2k more on a 17k building? i would be willing to bet that the number of fans attending is correct, just that the max rated for the building(i.e. what the % is figured on) is not correct. :dunno:
 

John Flyers Fan

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Chili said:
If you want to compare attendance figures they are here.

The most interesting number I found is the worst draw on the road is ... the defending Stanley Cup champs... go figure.

Take a look at their road games to date and that will show you why they are such a bad road draw. It's because they've only played 4 games in places that will sellout. The other games have been against teams that draw terribly at home, regardless of the opponent.

Florida
Pittsburgh
Washington - 3
Atlanta - 3
New Jersey
Carolina

Ottawa
Toronto
Montreal
Philadelphia
 

Gnashville

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jester099 said:
What you say is true, it takes time to develop markets and everything, but why try to build a market somewhere they've never seen ice other than in their drinks when you have thousands of people north of the border praying every day that they get a hockey team...

It just seams wrong to me. Some market already exist that aren't served right now, why try to build some new ones ?

The economics of the game as changed with the new CBA, and cities that couldn't support hockey teams financialy now can.

I think it's time to bring back hockey in those cities where everybody already cares about the sport.

Saying Dallas is a great hockey market because they fill the arena often is just wrong IMHO.

I'm not sure everybody in Dallas even knows there is a hockey team. The city is just big enough so that a small fraction of the population that actualy know hockey exists can fill the arena...
We've seen ice before, This is not LA
Nashville forecast BTW it much colder than that here.
Yes the economics have changed cities like Nashville and Raleigh can support franchises averaging 12K a night and be competive. Why even mention Dallas they are doing just fine. Like I have said in several of the threads bashing the South No one talks about Attendance problems in Basketball, Baseball, and Football. But Hockey it has to be a full house every night 42 times a season or the team/market is a failure :shakehead. I guess the Toronto Blue Jays and Raptors are failures, or for that matter the Canucks in the 80's :sarcasm:.
 
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jester099

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Gnashville said:
We've seen ice before, This is not LA
Nashville forecast BTW it much colder than that here.
Yes the economics have changed cities like Nashville and Raleigh can support franchises averaging 12K a night and be competive. Why even mention Dallas they are doing just fine. Like I have said in several of the threads bashing the South No one talks about Attendance problems in Basketball, Baseball, and Football. But Hockey it has to be a full house every night 42 times a season or the team/market is a failure :shakehead. I guess the Toronto Blue Jays and Raptors are failures, or for that matter the Canucks in the 80's :sarcasm:.

The ice comment was meant as humor, and it was aimed at the cities of the south, like in Florida, Texas or LA...

Big attendance and big hockey market are not the same in my mind...

I heard that if you talk to people in the streets of Dallas, a few people really know what's happening with their hockey team... Not a very good sign of a great hockey market. If you talk to people outside the city of Dallas, nobody knows anything at all...

That's how popular hockey is in that area.

When I hear talk of moving a team in Houston, I just can't figure out why...
 

Slats432

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Gnashville said:
or for that matter the Canucks in the 80's :sarcasm:.
1995-96 NHL Edmonton Oilers Edmonton AB Edmonton Coliseum 16,437 12,335 23 75% . .
1994-95 NHL Edmonton Oilers Edmonton AB Edmonton Coliseum 16,437 13,124 22 80% $15.00 $60.00
1993-94 NHL Edmonton Oilers Edmonton AB Northlands Coliseum 16,437 13,478

Yep....every market has their bumps......
 

Habsaku

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jester099 said:
The ice comment was meant as humor, and it was aimed at the cities of the south, like in Florida, Texas or LA...

Big attendance and big hockey market are not the same in my mind...

I heard that if you talk to people in the streets of Dallas, a few people really know what's happening with their hockey team... Not a very good sign of a great hockey market. If you talk to people outside the city of Dallas, nobody knows anything at all...

That's how popular hockey is in that area.

When I hear talk of moving a team in Houston, I just can't figure out why...
$
 

Mace_37

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19nazzy said:
Kanata is definately growing.

My dad used to live 10 minutes away from the CC. Always cool to drive by there

Too bad the Corel Centre is 15 minutes outside of Ottawa. It really makes it a pain in the *** to go see a game if you don't have a car. I don't know what they were thinking. They're the Kanata Senators, not the Ottawa Senators.
 

Hasbro

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Verbeek said:
Too bad the Nordiques will never really be back. No way they get the rights off the Avalanche.. who I assume still own the name and logo.
They could probably make a deal since the name is dormant. As an Avs fan I would hope they would.

anyway, sigh another relocation contraction thread :shakehead
 

Mike Bossy*

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the pens can go to Winnipeg
the thrashers can go to Quebec :thumbu:
 

Troy McClure

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jester099 said:
I heard that if you talk to people in the streets of Dallas, a few people really know what's happening with their hockey team... Not a very good sign of a great hockey market.
Dallas has more people with more money and more businesses with more money. That's all that matters. Quebec City has a metro population of around 671,000. Dallas/Ft. Worth has a combined 5.2 million. Dallas is a better NHL market than Quebec City. Sorry.

jester099 said:
If you talk to people outside the city of Dallas, nobody knows anything at all...
So what. Who cares about them.

jester099 said:
That's how popular hockey is in that area.
Before 1993, you could only go ice skating at about 3 places. Finding a league to play hockey was tough. Now, every suburban high school has a hockey team. All the local colleges have club hockey. There are 6 Stars owned ice complexes around the Metroplex with 5 or six other ice rinks owned by other people. Between the ice league and inline leagues, you have a whole lot of people of all ages playing hockey that wouldn't have had the Stars not moved there.

What you and others like you don't get is that this is a long term investment for the NHL. They don't care that the 50 somethings in a football town don't watch hockey, but they do care that thousands and thousands of kids do care and are playing. There are more pro hockey teams in Texas than all of Canada, so spare me your ignorant BS.
 
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