Possible replacement players?Will AHLers be part of it?

[Wetcoaster]

while it's true that a player simply can't show -up...absolutely..

but getting a visa or working papers isn't an impossibility..also don't forget any population that may have an American wife or child ...

You may see a whole lot of weddings this summer.

Yes it is an impossibility under the current American immigration laws. if a labour dispute is in process - no work visas are issued and existing work visas are cancelled as happened during the last ECHL strike.

Just marrying someone does not make you a legal resident, you have to apply for immigration. Having a child born in the US is great for the child, it does zip for the foreign national parent.

The immigration process takes several years and while there is a provison to adjust your status from within the US in certain circumstances, you still need a work permit to work in the US and that is prohibited. And if you leave the US during the process of your status adjustment (say to play a Canadian replacement team) then you wait outside the country while your application is processed through a US consulate.

 

[Buffaloed]

I don't believe visa or work visas can be issued during a work stoppage.

A CBA legally imposed under the impasse procedures wouldn't be a work stoppage. That's the route the NHL has to follow if it wants to use replacement players.

 

[Wetcoaster]

By the 2009-2010 season(5 years) there will be 7 years of draft choices for all of the teams whom should be able to replace much of the current NHLers.

Hopefully they will open the game up and put some skill back into the game so that is will far succeed the 2003-2004 season in quality.



I believe that hiring cheep illegal-immigrant Mexican workers is called a ‘WAL-MART’ and is already practised in the US.

However Wal-Mart is not unionized and it is not in a labour dispute.

Once there is a labour dispute in progress - no work visas and existing visas are cancelled. There is no discretion under US immigration law - it is absolute bar as it is in Canada as well.

 

[CGG]

Claims that a good chunk of the union will cross right away, decent AHL players will cross, European scabs will be allowed, teams will throw money and lawyers out there to dodge immigration laws and non-scab laws in Canadian provinces, and so on and so forth...

All of this seems to be wishful thinking by people who hate the players so much, their desire to "screw the union" is trumping common sense and reasoning. You want a replacement league to be up and running successfully so badly that anything that contradicts your dreamy wishes is generally dismissed and ignored.

If the NHL magically gets to a point where it can start next season with replacement players, you are in for a shock at the poor quality of hockey players that will be used by the teams.

 

[Wetcoaster]

Absolutely, remember also of the entire workforce in the US only 13% of them are still unionized. I did all my own immigration ppwk when I relocated to the US from Canada it was a piece of cake.

Under what category did you enter the US?

 

[Wetcoaster]

the NHL wants to have a draft this year, so won't them players drafted be expected to play in the NHL. they will obviously be under a new agreement, correct?

with that, all of the junior players that haven't signed NHL deals would be expected to play.

Without a CBA there is no draft.

 

[Wetcoaster]

A CBA legally imposed under the impasse procedures wouldn't be a work stoppage. That's the route the NHL has to follow if it wants to use replacement players.

That is incorrect. An impasse decalration does not end the labour dispute because it is considered a temporary measure and the NHL is still required to bargain with the union.

 

[Buffaloed]

That is incorrect. An impasse decalration does not end the labour dispute because it is considered a temporary measure and the NHL is still required to bargain with the union.

Then they ought to follow Bob McKenzie's suggestion and continue the lockout indefinitely. Alternatively they could fold the entire league and the AHL could expand into former NHL cities.

 

[mr gib]

Then they ought to follow Bob McKenzie's suggestion and continue the lockout indefinitely. Alternatively they could fold the entire league and the AHL could expand into former NHL cities.

it's funny you say that - howie meeker on the west coast here predicted that would happen - fold the whole thing and return as something else - weird -

 

[Bicycle Repairman]

Alternatively they could fold the entire league and the AHL could expand into former NHL cities.

That would change the terms of the PHPA/AHL Collective Bargaining Agreement. Suddenly, they're a premier league. The players would want to be compensated accordingly.

Back to Square One!

 

[Jag68Sid87]

If the NHL magically gets to a point where it can start next season with replacement players, you are in for a shock at the poor quality of hockey players that will be used by the teams.

There will be no shock to the system, because most hockey fans have been watching a "poor quality of hockey" for about a decade now. You know, since right around the time of the last lockout. Coincidence?

The big shock would be if replacement hockey turns out to be better than the 2003-04 version. And with new rules that could open up the game, more studies on how to finally call all obstruction penalties, and the restrictions on goaltending equipment, plus the shootout in the regular season, I wouldn't discount it so quickly.

Wouldn't it be ironic if "replacement hockey" brought back the 50-goal scorer and 100-point man? If it doesn't, oh well we didn't have it in 2003-04 anyway.

 

[CGG]

There will be no shock to the system, because most hockey fans have been watching a "poor quality of hockey" for about a decade now. You know, since right around the time of the last lockout. Coincidence?

The big shock would be if replacement hockey turns out to be better than the 2003-04 version. And with new rules that could open up the game, more studies on how to finally call all obstruction penalties, and the restrictions on goaltending equipment, plus the shootout in the regular season, I wouldn't discount it so quickly.

Wouldn't it be ironic if "replacement hockey" brought back the 50-goal scorer and 100-point man? If it doesn't, oh well we didn't have it in 2003-04 anyway.

A peewee team in Quebec City could have a 50-goal 100-point scorer, is that worth paying $198 a ticket for? The best way to improve the on-ice product is not to replace the 700 best players in the world with players 2 and 3 levels below them.

 

[Buffaloed]

That would change the terms of the PHPA/AHL Collective Bargaining Agreement. Suddenly, they're a premier league. The players would want to be compensated accordingly.

Back to Square One!

They need to go back to square one. There's so much ego, greed, and pursuit of personal agendas involved, that the NHL and NHLPA are unable to identify a common goal and make sacrifices to achieve it. I can't imagine the AHL and PHPA having as much difficulty working out a fair CBA as we've seen from their supposedly superior brethren.

 

[Bicycle Repairman]

They need to go back to square one. There's so much ego, greed, and pursuit of personal agendas involved, that the NHL and NHLPA are unable to identify a common goal and make sacrifices to achieve it. I can't imagine the AHL and PHPA having as much difficulty working out a fair CBA as we've seen from their supposedly superior brethren.

Well, that's nice.

Didn't Cyndi Lauper once sing "Money Changes Everything?"

 

[Jag68Sid87]

A peewee team in Quebec City could have a 50-goal 100-point scorer, is that worth paying $198 a ticket for? The best way to improve the on-ice product is not to replace the 700 best players in the world with players 2 and 3 levels below them.

You honestly think a "replacement hockey" ticket anywhere is going to cost $198? You get what you pay for, so expect ticket prices to be adjusted accordingly.

In the end, it'll be far less of a ripoff than any NHL regular season game since 1993-94.

 

[CGG]

You honestly think a "replacement hockey" ticket anywhere is going to cost $198? You get what you pay for, so expect ticket prices to be adjusted accordingly.

In the end, it'll be far less of a ripoff than any NHL regular season game since 1993-94.

Yes I do, and that place is Toronto. With a waiting list for season tickets, and with the belief of many that the sucky hockey will be temporary before the players come crawling back, why would they lower their prices? Either pay the going rate ($198) or give up your right for season tickets this season and forever more.

 

[RangerBoy]

Replacement hockey is designed to break the union.Just like the NFL did.Lawrence Taylor crossed and it was over.Some NHL players will cross because they need to money.They are used to living in a certain manner which requires them to make NHL money.Jason Blake of the Islanders bought a new house on Long Island and now he may lose the house.Is Bill Guerin or Vinny Damphousse or Trevor Linden going to pay Blake's mortgage?I don't think so

 

[I in the Eye]

They need to go back to square one. There's so much ego, greed, and pursuit of personal agendas involved, that the NHL and NHLPA are unable to identify a common goal and make sacrifices to achieve it. I can't imagine the AHL and PHPA having as much difficulty working out a fair CBA as we've seen from their supposedly superior brethren.

I think that society as a whole needs to go back to square one... The whole capitalist thing is only a blink in the history of the earth - and we humans are not only destroying ourselves, but the earth... Humans as a whole need to wake up and realize that capitalism breeds ego, greed, and pursuit of personal agendas - at the expense of the 'common good' - the earth, the neighbour, the animal, the global community, etc...

Bush should let loose his nuclear bombs on the earth, and lets all just start over again from scratch... Those humans that are left will be armed with the knowledge of what didn't work the first time around... Where's Bin Laden's phone number when you need it...

The potential Gary Bettman way to cleanse the environment...

I don't necessarily disagree with it... But personally, I'd only willingly support this strategy if I was a casual observer - like an alien... Not if it could negatively (and selfishly) impact my family, myself, and my home...

Because I'm a hockey fan who loves NHL hockey, I have to think that there's a much better, less costly way to cleanse the environment than starting from square one - like through education (GM competence training), and through civil negotiation involving 'give and take' with thy neighbour... IMO, it's a defining factor that helps seperate us humans from the other animals...

I'm all for threatening the 'square one' alternative to the NHLPA though - to see if they blink

 

[dakota]

Without a CBA there is no draft.

I thought if there is impasse and the league re-opens they do so under the last offered CBA... then the players strike... therefore would there not be a new CBA... thus allowing the league to hold a draft?

 

[Wetcoaster]

Replacement hockey is designed to break the union.Just like the NFL did.Lawrence Taylor crossed and it was over.

That was just the beginning.

Then the NFLPA decertified, relied upon the courts, filed antitrust suits and won the war.

The players got the free agency they sought, the end of the Rozelle Rule and the owners had to pay $195 million to settle the antitrust suits. Whereupon the NFLPA reconstituted and signed a CBA implementing their gains.

It did not work out so well for the NFL owners and when the MLB owners tried it they lost.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Go ask any NFL owner to see if they complain about it today.

It was a necessary evil, in my opinion.

 

[Wetcoaster]

I thought if there is impasse and the league re-opens they do so under the last offered CBA... then the players strike... therefore would there not be a new CBA... thus allowing the league to hold a draft?

You are assuming that the NHL would declare an impasse, that the NLRB/courts would ultimately uphold the declaration of impasse (and on the case law that is less than 1 in 10) or that the NHLPA does not decertify.

If they NHL goes ahead and holds a draft and then the declaratation of impasse is rejected the drafted players can file antitrust suits and they are entitled to treble damages.

 

[wazee]

No they cannot. It is a statutory bar.

So unless the NHL can get Congress to pass an amendment to US immigration law there is no way around this. Given that Congress could not get together enough to pass laws during the 1994 MLB strike for "America's Pastime" - what are the chances the NHL will be able to get Conress to move?

Same law applies in Canada.

In 1994, both houses of Congress were controlled by the Democrats. Since labor unions are a major constituency of the Democratic Party, it is not surprising they would not act in 1994.

Since 1995, Congress has been controlled by Republicans who do not benefit from labor unions.

Now you could say that the US Congress does not care enough about hockey to act and you might be right. This time around, however, they might care enough about baseball. President Bush made a comment recently that he hoped baseball owners and players would settle their differences before their CBA expired. As a former owner, there is little doubt which side he would be on in that case. Not saying he or Congress will take any action, but if you wanted to avert a problem for MLB, they might use the NHL to show the way...

I would prefer the NHL and the NHLPA settle their differences without going the impasse/NLRB/courts route. But if they take that path, the change in the political climate in the U.S. in the last decade would tend to favor the owners...proving, I guess, that elections do matter...

 

[wazee]

That was just the beginning.

Then the NFLPA decertified, relied upon the courts, filed antitrust suits and won the war.

The players got the free agency they sought, the end of the Rozelle Rule and the owners had to pay $195 million to settle the antitrust suits. Whereupon the NFLPA reconstituted and signed a CBA implementing their gains.

It did not work out so well for the NFL owners and when the MLB owners tried it they lost.

The NFL gave up free agency in return for a salary cap. I have long thought the NHL would end up trading a lower free agency age for a salary cap.

To put the 195M in perspective...I do not remember exactly what the salary cap for the NFL was back then, but I think 80M would be in the ballpark. So the settlement was about 2 1/2 times a single team's cap. Not a big deal for a league where the TV contract alone rakes in billions.

The NFLPA came out of the last work stoppage significantly weakened...no matter how you try to spin it...

 

[Epsilon]

The NFL gave up free agency in return for a salary cap. I have long thought the NHL would end up trading a lower free agency age for a salary cap.

To put the 195M in perspective...I do not remember exactly what the salary cap for the NFL was back then, but I think 80M would be in the ballpark. So the settlement was about 2 1/2 times a single team's cap. Not a big deal for a league where the TV contract alone rakes in billions.

The NFLPA came out of the last work stoppage significantly weakened...no matter how you try to spin it...

80 million is the current team cap. It wasn't even close to that in 1987.