Speculation: Possible 2017 Off Season moves

[Rzombo4 prez]

I'd even do Sproul and a pick. Unless we think Sproul has more upside in him then he has shone. Granted it's such a small sample size, thus far.

Sproul plus a pick won't get us De Haan. Sproul is pretty worthless at this point in terms of trade value.

 

[theD86]

Sproul plus a pick won't get us De Haan. Sproul is pretty worthless at this point in terms of trade value.

Correct. A player like Nyquist would have to be included in a package.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

It is hard to say. My guess is that Gus probably isn't worth much more than De Haan at this point. I have seen little to suggest that he will land us a better defensemen after several years of "improving the defense" offseason talk.

Yeah, I understand that. And I get that our defense isn't really in a spot where we can poopoo a 25 point guy because there is such a dearth of offense from back there... but I'm also not thrilled about trading a guy in Nyquist who before this past year's slumber on offense from the entire team was a 25-30 goal guy for Quincey but with slightly better offensive numbers.

The Wings NEED a top pairing D. They don't necessarily need another guy who's optimally slotted in as a #4D. I'm definitely not looking to do Nyquist+ for him. I'd do Nyquist+something significant ('17 1st, AA, Svech, hell '18 1st) to land someone quite a bit better than CDH.

Basically, the time is past to make a trade akin to a single or a double on that blueline. You want to move assets out, it's gotta be a homerun. Otherwise, you sit on what you have and pray to god that you land Liljegren or Makar this year and Rasmus Dahlin next year... and that Hronek and Saarijavi and Cholowski pan out.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Correct. A player like Nyquist would have to be included in a package.

Which is a non-starter for me. I don't want an eh upgrade on D if I'm including Nyquist and other things in a package. Bulk up the package and land Hanifin or Shea Theodore or a guy like that, not a mid-20s D who's ceiling is middle pairing.

Basically, trading Nyquist for Calvin De Haan is the kind of move that everyone here *****es about. A sideways move to band-aid the defense, with the added bonus of weakening our already kinda meh forwards. If you can buy De Haan cheap, I'm all for getting him... however, getting him for Nyquist is not getting him cheap. It's getting him at market value, at best.

Toss out Nyquist + AA + '18 1st and see what that can return. I think that might be closer to the D we need. If something like that could pull a Trouba or Fowler now, I'd probably be okay with risking that it's a top 3 pick and we miss out on Dahlin.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Yeah, I understand that. And I get that our defense isn't really in a spot where we can poopoo a 25 point guy because there is such a dearth of offense from back there... but I'm also not thrilled about trading a guy in Nyquist who before this past year's slumber on offense from the entire team was a 25-30 goal guy for Quincey but with slightly better offensive numbers.

The Wings NEED a top pairing D. They don't necessarily need another guy who's optimally slotted in as a #4D. I'm definitely not looking to do Nyquist+ for him. I'd do Nyquist+something significant ('17 1st, AA, Svech, hell '18 1st) to land someone quite a bit better than CDH.

Basically, the time is past to make a trade akin to a single or a double on that blueline. You want to move assets out, it's gotta be a homerun. Otherwise, you sit on what you have and pray to god that you land Liljegren or Makar this year and Rasmus Dahlin next year... and that Hronek and Saarijavi and Cholowski pan out.

I am not necessarily suggesting that we trade Gus for the sake of trading him. I do, however, think that one of the key decisions Holland needs to start addressing is where Tatar and Gus fit into the organization past their UFA years. I think it is clear now that their vintage of player is not the next core, but some sort of buffer group of players between the old guard and they next core (if we can call Larkin, Mantha, AA and the 2016 draftees the next core). If they don't belong here for the long term, I think they are best used to acquire younger assets (though not necessarily draft picks). In that regard, De Haan probably isn't the best target and we should instead be focusing on someone like Theodore.

 

[MTU hockey]

I wouldn't lose sleep over losing a guy like Nyquist or Tatar. They are solid top 6 wingers but at this point in time I think we can replace their production from within with a full season of Mantha plus AA(getting a bigger role)/Svech/Bertuzzi earning roles while at the same time increasing the size of our top 6 and relieving the forward logjam. Now I don't know a thing about De Haan, so I don't know if it's worth moving Nyquist/Tatar for him straight up, but if he is indeed a legit 2nd pair TWD then I'd be fine with it. This team needs top pairing guys as well as top 4 guys, DeKeyser and Green are the only legit top 4 dmen we have on the roster, let that sink in.

As much as I like XO, Jensen, Kronwall they are not legit top 4 dmen on a contending roster, if you can add a legit second pairing guy it would go a long way towards rebuilding. Plus De Haan is a good age at 26 y.o. he could reasonably contribute for the next ~6 years and generally dmen age better.

Personally I think a good option is to call Anaheim or Carolina about their plethora of solid defense prospects. Between Theodore/Vatenan/Fleury/Larsson someones got to be available at a decent price, and they are young enough to be able to contribute when the team is good again.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

I wouldn't lose sleep over losing a guy like Nyquist or Tatar. They are solid top 6 wingers but at this point in time I think we can replace their production from within with a full season of Mantha plus AA(getting a bigger role)/Svech/Bertuzzi earning roles while at the same time increasing the size of our top 6 and relieving the forward logjam. Now I don't know a thing about De Haan, so I don't know if it's worth moving Nyquist/Tatar for him straight up, but if he is indeed a legit 2nd pair TWD then I'd be fine with it. This team needs top pairing guys as well as top 4 guys, DeKeyser and Green are the only legit top 4 dmen we have on the roster, let that sink in.

As much as I like XO, Jensen, Kronwall they are not legit top 4 dmen on a contending roster, if you can add a legit second pairing guy it would go a long way towards rebuilding. Plus De Haan is a good age at 26 y.o. he could reasonably contribute for the next ~6 years and generally dmen age better.

Personally I think a good option is to call Anaheim or Carolina about their plethora of solid defense prospects. Between Theodore/Vatenan/Fleury/Larsson someones got to be available at a decent price, and they are young enough to be able to contribute when the team is good again.

XO had a really solid season, his numbers were really outstanding for being poorly coached on a sinking ship of a team. I think he can be a legit middle pairing guy still.

If we walked out of June with De Haan and Heiskanen without losing Mantha, I'd be very pleased.

 

[sully6one]

XO had a really solid season, his numbers were really outstanding for being poorly coached on a sinking ship of a team. I think he can be a legit middle pairing guy still.

If we walked out of June with De Haan and Heiskanen without losing Mantha, I'd be very pleased.

If XO was a better skater I'd agree, but not until then.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Nyquist for De haan?

No thanks

Trade for picks and prospects

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

If XO was a better skater I'd agree, but not until then.

I read this periodically throughout the season here, and frankly, never saw it. His skating isn't that big of an issue.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I read this periodically throughout the season here, and frankly, never saw it. His skating isn't that big of an issue.

I can't help but infer from this that you don't watch the Wings too much. XO's skating is without question a big issue and a very limiting factor to his style of play and effectiveness.

 

[Mijatovic]

If XO was a better skater I'd agree, but not until then.

He can fulfil a role. Doesnt give up too many horrid goals. Provides minimal offence in that he can generally make a clear obvious pass but will hardly ever get a decent shot on net and wont be creative. He's a bottom pairing guy. Doesnt have the nouse to make up for his below average physical abilities.

 

[Inspiration]

He can fulfil a role. Doesnt give up too many horrid goals. Provides minimal offence in that he can generally make a clear obvious pass but will hardly ever get a decent shot on net and wont be creative. He's a bottom pairing guy. Doesnt have the nouse to make up for his below average physical abilities.

He has more offensive ability than he is given credit for. His raw numbers don't look particularly strong due to low minutes and lack of power-play opportunities, but his 5v5 points/60 since entering the league are actually pretty good.

 

[Mijatovic]

He has more offensive ability than he is given credit for. His raw numbers don't look particularly strong due to low minutes and lack of power-play opportunities, but his 5v5 points/60 since entering the league are actually pretty good.

Ive never looked at his numbers. I just watch him play. He certainly is not creative.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

I can't help but infer from this that you don't watch the Wings too much. XO's skating is without question a big issue and a very limiting factor to his style of play and effectiveness.

Yeah, maybe from being a top pairing defenseman. He was one of the better blue liners all year and this narrative that his skating inhibits his contributions is both blown out of proportion and is regurgitated by people who lead me to believe that they echo message board opinions and didn't actually watch him play.

 

[sully6one]

Yeah, maybe from being a top pairing defenseman. He was one of the better blue liners all year and this narrative that his skating inhibits his contributions is both blown out of proportion and is regurgitated by people who lead me to believe that they echo message board opinions and didn't actually watch him play.

He gets caught flat footed a fair amount, his top end speed is very poor, transitioning is off balanced at time which slows him down, his first step is not good either. He does have excellent positioning which makes up for a lot of his downfalls. In my opinion from watching him, if he improves his skating to the caliber of most NHL defenseman, he could be a #3 guy.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Nyquist for De haan?

No thanks

Trade for picks and prospects

Trading for De Haan makes zero sense, Unless Kronwall has told Holland that he can no longer play and will LTIR it for his last 2 years or so. Or if by a miracle we can move Ericsson out other then that trading for De Haan really doesn't make much sense here.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Trading for De Haan makes zero sense, Unless Kronwall has told Holland that he can no longer play and will LTIR it for his last 2 years or so. Or if by a miracle we can move Ericsson out other then that trading for De Haan really doesn't make much sense here.

Yep, this was pretty much my point.

Wings need to aim higher if they want to trade for a D. A middle pairing guy is a bad trade for them outside of two things.

a) They get the middle pairing D for a bargain basement price. Think two thirds for DeHaan (like the Boychuk deal, just a round lower cause DeHaan is no Boychuk).

b) They find a way to get out of Ericsson's deal, don't want to play a Hronek or Saarijavi yet, want DeHaan on a year or two deal for close to his 2.4M and get him reasonably cheap.

With where they are at, dealing Nyquist for DeHaan makes no damn sense.

 

[Frk It]

We have 1 defenseman that's worth a damn. If the rest of them blew away in a windstorm tomorrow, I wouldn't even care.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Yep, this was pretty much my point.

Wings need to aim higher if they want to trade for a D. A middle pairing guy is a bad trade for them outside of two things.

a) They get the middle pairing D for a bargain basement price. Think two thirds for DeHaan (like the Boychuk deal, just a round lower cause DeHaan is no Boychuk).

b) They find a way to get out of Ericsson's deal, don't want to play a Hronek or Saarijavi yet, want DeHaan on a year or two deal for close to his 2.4M and get him reasonably cheap.

With where they are at, dealing Nyquist for DeHaan makes no damn sense.

Totally agree that Nyquist for De Haan is pretty bad unless the NYI add another significant piece on to him as well, Calvin De Haan is another shut down D man and we already have tons of those to begin with. We need an elite top pairing PMD not more shut down type of guys.

 

[Sami]

Give me Kovalchuk and Radulov! Then sign Yevgeni Dadonov!

 

[Reddwit]

We have 1 defenseman that's worth a damn. If the rest of them blew away in a windstorm tomorrow, I wouldn't even care.

Haha, I don't know why, but that last sentence actually made me laugh out loud.

Back on topic, I think it's poor asset management to move Nike/Tatar for CDH but I wouldn't cry over it. I think the idea of targeting a young defenseman with an inconsistent past is a great move though. No one is going to give us a great defenseman or one with great potential who hasn't had any missteps as of yet for a mid-level asset like Nike/Tats, bundled or not.

Dumba should be our first target though. He's potentially exposed, like CdH, but the impact of his upside is massive vis-a-vis Calvin's.

 

[theD86]

I'd love to see the Wings go all for either Trouba or Fowler. That would be a step in the right direction. But, the Jets would ask for a dman to be included in a deal and the Ducks would ask for wingers............. Not sure the Wings can swing a deal

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

I'd love to see the Wings go all for either Trouba or Fowler. That would be a step in the right direction. But, the Jets would ask for a dman to be included in a deal and the Ducks would ask for wingers............. Not sure the Wings can swing a deal

They already did go all in on Trouba and failed.

Time has passed on Fowler. Probably could have gotten him, comparatively, for a song last year compared to what you'd pay now. Last year, it looked like he was quickly becoming odd man out in Anaheim. He looks like a 1/2D again now.

 

[Winger98]

RE: de Haan

My problem is that he's really not that young. 26 isn't old, but it's also a point where he's likely developed into whatever he's going to be. Maybe he can handle some more minutes, maybe he can put up some more points, but is he going to evolve into a 40+ point guy in the next couple of years? I seriously doubt it. If that type of ceiling was there, I think we'd have seen more of it by now. I favor going after Dumba instead just because of the age difference and the greater opportunity it will give him to reach his potential.

This isn't saying either is a good/bad D, just that their ages -even the relatively young 26 - dictates certain things about their remaining career arcs. Also, I think the younger guys will fit in better with our guys coming up in Larkin, Mantha, AA, Svech, etc.

They already did go all in on Trouba and failed.

Time has passed on Fowler. Probably could have gotten him, comparatively, for a song last year compared to what you'd pay now. Last year, it looked like he was quickly becoming odd man out in Anaheim. He looks like a 1/2D again now.

yeah, if we're looking for a deal, it's time to probably switch our sights to someone like Dumba (or someone else maybe pushed out by the expansion draft) or to someone out of the blue that folks aren't expecting to be traded (like Hamilton a couple of years ago).

I said it before, but I'll be happy if we can just move a cumbersome contract or two and then dump more ice time on Jensen, XO, and the rest next year.