Positives and Negatives

HarryLime

Registered User
Jun 27, 2014
4,826
2,548
Halifax
So it's been a rough life as a Leafs fan and this is one of the all time lows but figured I'd make a thread where it's not all negative. What are some aspects you're happy with? Also list negatives to vent


Positives:

Auston Matthews: If there was ever 1 thing keeping me from completely losing interest/hope/passion it's him. If he stays here he will go down as one of the best Leafs ever. He was terrific in the series and I feel worse for him, especially after his post game 4 interview. We're lucky to have him.

Zach Hyman: We need more players that play with the intensity he does. Babcock was 100% right about him. He is a warrior and a heart and soul kind of player that you want in a battle.

Morgan Rielly: He makes mistakes, he's not perfect but he is terrific tbh. I haven't always been the biggest fan of his but he is our 2nd best player imo. He's still only 26 and getting better. I feel like his pinch game has got better. He will never be the shutdown anchor but that's ok. I feel like he is Duncan Keith lite defensively but offensively he is better in a lot of areas. I can live with the mistakes.

Uniforms: I spent 30 minutes thinking of a 4th positive and yeah.... I love that our uniforms are dope lol.

Jason Spezza: I feel for him too. He played with a lot of heart and this was before the fight. He provided a spark that the leaders of the team couldn't do.


Negatives:

Mitch Marner: This isn't prisoner of the moment it's something that has been building for 5 years. I wanted us to draft him in 2015. In the season he is mostly fine but there's always those moments in the back of my head where I watch him get embarrassed in physical confrontations and flail to the ground like a 7 year old boy getting tossed by his dad in play wrestling. I truly think come playoff time, this guy is counter productive. He might get a few points in open space on the power play, but at 10.9 million dollars, I would move off Marner while he is still valuable. I know he will put up 80-90 points next year but I don't care. I would much rather go into a playoff series with a guy on the Dave Perron, prime Patrick Hornqvist tier or even Jake Debrusk. I have lost 100% faith in Marner to be effective against a gritty team like Boston/Columbus in a playoff series. I would ship him out for a top pairing defensement to play with Rielly or a top 6 forward that can play a 2 way game. I realize this is scathing in some ways but it's the truth in my eyes. He is too weak physically. At 10.9 million I just don't see how he is an asset.

Depth Scoring:

Where was Ilya Mikheyev, Kaspari Kap and the others? Complete no shows. It sucks that so little of the cap can be dedicated to this area due to Matthews-Tavares-Marner.

Cap:

There's no way this team can move on with those 3 guys getting so much. One of Matthews-Tavares-Marner may need to move on. Don't want to make this a hit piece on Marner but Matthews isn't going anywhere (unless he demands a trade), JT either.

Hopeful:

William Nylander: He is probably public enemy 1 or 2 on here but I was encouraged by him this year. I would much rather keep him over Marner due to contract and size. I think Nylander has untapped potential and with Marner out of the way he could breakout in a way a lot of us didn't expect. As a 1st line winger on Matthews line, I could see 90 + points.

Unsure:

Frederick Andersen: I wish we would have lost 6-5 so I could be sure he was the problem. The thing is.... We didn't score a damn goal in 2 of the 5 games... Including the winner take all. He gave up a bad, bad goal that you simply cannot give up in that situation. We didn't score though, so how can we pin this on Freddy? It's hard to pick a side here.

John Tavares: I didn't want us to sign him. I always thought he was good but slightly overrated just like Stamkos. I didn't want either. I am not a huge fan of his game. He isn't the best skater, isn't the best playmaker, is signed for a huge amount and is 30. But he also does a lot of things well, and in a playoff series he was more effective than a lot of the no-shows. I mean, as the captain getting paid what he does, he damn well better but I am in no mans land with JT. I am not attached to him 1 bit but I don't hate him either. I think next season he has a lot to prove. He needs to lead this team and not miss open nets in deciding games. How about carry us for a few playoff games?
 
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Guided by Veseys

Registered User
Nov 14, 2011
3,715
3,020
Positives
Matthews is incredible. One of the very top players in the league.

Robertson and Sandin will be good

Nylander is a huge bonus in terms of his production vs contract. Wing only though please.

Jack Campbell seems like a good guy.

Lafreniere will be a great addition to the team

This year was f***ed up and horrible. Things like getting beaten by a zamboni driver, Columbus save % plus crossbars/goalposts, etc won’t happen again.

Negatives
None that I can think of. The team is perfect :sarcasm:
 

Carltons Cup

Let's Do This..
Feb 22, 2018
2,881
4,599
I'm just hoping that our Buttercups all got Participation Badges by taking part in the qualifying round. I wouldn't want their feelings to get hurt.

r204-participant.jpg
 
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SoVi3t

Registered User
Sep 16, 2009
1,113
1,214
Positives: I won't get my Leafs jersey dirty because I won't be wearing it during the playoffs.

Negatives: Our offence isn't offensive in the ways they should be.
 

Sniper99

Registered User
Jan 12, 2011
12,503
5,360
Edmonton
Negatives:

Our Defense. Lord have mercy.
Cap space is next to nothing. Hold off on the move Marner shit cause really, who is taking that contract?
Dubas is our GM

Positives:
Robertson, Keep it up kid you're gonna be great.
Our offense, as long as we dont play Columbus
 

Faltorvo

Registered User
Feb 18, 2008
21,067
1,941
So it's been a rough life as a Leafs fan and this is one of the all time lows but figured I'd make a thread where it's not all negative. What are some aspects you're happy with? Also list negatives to vent


Positives:

Auston Matthews: If there was ever 1 thing keeping me from completely losing interest/hope/passion it's him. If he stays here he will go down as one of the best Leafs ever. He was terrific in the series and I feel worse for him, especially after his post game 4 interview. We're lucky to have him.

Zach Hyman: We need more players that play with the intensity he does. Babcock was 100% right about him. He is a warrior and a heart and soul kind of player that you want in a battle.

Morgan Rielly: He makes mistakes, he's not perfect but he is terrific tbh. I haven't always been the biggest fan of his but he is our 2nd best player imo. He's still only 26 and getting better. I feel like his pinch game has got better. He will never be the shutdown anchor but that's ok. I feel like he is Duncan Keith lite defensively but offensively he is better in a lot of areas. I can live with the mistakes.

Uniforms: I spent 30 minutes thinking of a 4th positive and yeah.... I love that our uniforms are dope lol.

Jason Spezza: I feel for him too. He played with a lot of heart and this was before the fight. He provided a spark that the leaders of the team couldn't do.


Negatives:

Mitch Marner: This isn't prisoner of the moment it's something that has been building for 5 years. I wanted us to draft him in 2015. In the season he is mostly fine but there's always those moments in the back of my head where I watch him get embarrassed in physical confrontations and flail to the ground like a 7 year old boy getting tossed by his dad in play wrestling. I truly think come playoff time, this guy is counter productive. He might get a few points in open space on the power play, but at 10.9 million dollars, I would move off Marner while he is still valuable. I know he will put up 80-90 points next year but I don't care. I would much rather go into a playoff series with a guy on the Dave Perron, prime Patrick Hornqvist tier or even Jake Debrusk. I have lost 100% faith in Marner to be effective against a gritty team like Boston/Columbus in a playoff series. I would ship him out for a top pairing defensement to play with Rielly or a top 6 forward that can play a 2 way game. I realize this is scathing in some ways but it's the truth in my eyes. He is too weak physically. At 10.9 million I just don't see how he is an asset.

Depth Scoring:

Where was Ilya Mikheyev, Kaspari Kap and the others? Complete no shows. It sucks that so little of the cap can be dedicated to this area due to Matthews-Tavares-Marner.

Cap:

There's no way this team can move on with those 3 guys getting so much. One of Matthews-Tavares-Marner may need to move on. Don't want to make this a hit piece on Marner but Matthews isn't going anywhere (unless he demands a trade), JT either.

Hopeful:

William Nylander: He is probably public enemy 1 or 2 on here but I was encouraged by him this year. I would much rather keep him over Marner due to contract and size. I think Nylander has untapped potential and with Marner out of the way he could breakout in a way a lot of us didn't expect. As a 1st line winger on Matthews line, I could see 90 + points.

Unsure:

Frederick Andersen: I wish we would have lost 6-5 so I could be sure he was the problem. The thing is.... We didn't score a damn goal in 2 of the 5 games... Including the winner take all. He gave up a bad, bad goal that you simply cannot give up in that situation. We didn't score though, so how can we pin this on Freddy? It's hard to pick a side here.

John Tavares: I didn't want us to sign him. I always thought he was good but slightly overrated just like Stamkos. I didn't want either. I am not a huge fan of his game. He isn't the best skater, isn't the best playmaker, is signed for a huge amount and is 30. But he also does a lot of things well, and in a playoff series he was more effective than a lot of the no-shows. I mean, as the captain getting paid what he does, he damn well better but I am in no mans land with JT. I am not attached to him 1 bit but I don't hate him either. I think next season he has a lot to prove. He needs to lead this team and not miss open nets in deciding games. How about carry us for a few playoff games?

I want both of WN and MM traded,,, all they do is post "pay me" stats in the reg season and go AWOL when it's $ time hockey
 

Faltorvo

Registered User
Feb 18, 2008
21,067
1,941
Positives
Matthews is incredible. One of the very top players in the league. Over paid and terrible term

Robertson and Sandin will be good , lets hope so

Nylander is a huge bonus in terms of his production vs contract. Wing only though please.Not a huge bonus at all,at all,,gawd our standards are way way too low, he is just earning his deal

Jack Campbell seems like a good guy.

Lafreniere will be a great addition to the team

This year was f***ed up and horrible. Things like getting beaten by a zamboni driver, Columbus save % plus crossbars/goalposts, etc won’t happen again.

Negatives
None that I can think of. The team is perfect :sarcasm:
 

biotk

Registered User
Jan 3, 2017
7,091
5,520
Buffalo
Positives: the team continues to show everyone who it actually is.

Negatives: management and most of the fan base seem to continue to be relying on little but hope.
 

SprDaVE

Moderator
Sep 20, 2008
51,970
33,225
Positives are that this is still a very good team. It will take some more tweaking and adjustments to hopefully be able to finally take the next step.

The big negative is that it will take some tough decisions to make those adjustments.
 

HarryLime

Registered User
Jun 27, 2014
4,826
2,548
Halifax
I want both of WN and MM traded,,, all they do is post "pay me" stats in the reg season and go AWOL when it's $ time hockey
I thought Nylander looked pretty good but there were some mistakes for sure. I don't blame you for wanting both gone but I would personally move 1 of them and that is MM
 

Faltorvo

Registered User
Feb 18, 2008
21,067
1,941
I thought Nylander looked pretty good but there were some mistakes for sure. I don't blame you for wanting both gone but I would personally move 1 of them and that is MM
Nylander does not play playoff hockey in my eyes

he puts up numbers that get him paid,,,that's it
 

HarryLime

Registered User
Jun 27, 2014
4,826
2,548
Halifax
Nylander does not play playoff hockey in my eyes

he puts up numbers that get him paid,,,that's it
I thought he was the catalyst for the comeback in game 4. He made a few really nice plays but didn't get rewarded. I do think you have a point I just see more potential in him than Marner and think he can turn it around. Marner at basically 11 million is tough. He's not ever going to not be the smallest, weakest player on the ice.
 

Faltorvo

Registered User
Feb 18, 2008
21,067
1,941
I thought he was the catalyst for the comeback in game 4. He made a few really nice plays but didn't get rewarded. I do think you have a point I just see more potential in him than Marner and think he can turn it around. Marner at basically 11 million is tough. He's not ever going to not be the smallest, weakest player on the ice.
oh don't get me wrong,, i am fine with both gone

as long as the returns involve quality RHS Dmen.
 
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ORRFForever

Registered User
Oct 29, 2018
17,982
9,427
So it's been a rough life as a Leafs fan and this is one of the all time lows but figured I'd make a thread where it's not all negative. What are some aspects you're happy with? Also list negatives to vent


Positives:

Auston Matthews: If there was ever 1 thing keeping me from completely losing interest/hope/passion it's him. If he stays here he will go down as one of the best Leafs ever. He was terrific in the series and I feel worse for him, especially after his post game 4 interview. We're lucky to have him.

Zach Hyman: We need more players that play with the intensity he does. Babcock was 100% right about him. He is a warrior and a heart and soul kind of player that you want in a battle.

Morgan Rielly: He makes mistakes, he's not perfect but he is terrific tbh. I haven't always been the biggest fan of his but he is our 2nd best player imo. He's still only 26 and getting better. I feel like his pinch game has got better. He will never be the shutdown anchor but that's ok. I feel like he is Duncan Keith lite defensively but offensively he is better in a lot of areas. I can live with the mistakes.

Uniforms: I spent 30 minutes thinking of a 4th positive and yeah.... I love that our uniforms are dope lol.

Jason Spezza: I feel for him too. He played with a lot of heart and this was before the fight. He provided a spark that the leaders of the team couldn't do.


Negatives:

Mitch Marner: This isn't prisoner of the moment it's something that has been building for 5 years. I wanted us to draft him in 2015. In the season he is mostly fine but there's always those moments in the back of my head where I watch him get embarrassed in physical confrontations and flail to the ground like a 7 year old boy getting tossed by his dad in play wrestling. I truly think come playoff time, this guy is counter productive. He might get a few points in open space on the power play, but at 10.9 million dollars, I would move off Marner while he is still valuable. I know he will put up 80-90 points next year but I don't care. I would much rather go into a playoff series with a guy on the Dave Perron, prime Patrick Hornqvist tier or even Jake Debrusk. I have lost 100% faith in Marner to be effective against a gritty team like Boston/Columbus in a playoff series. I would ship him out for a top pairing defensement to play with Rielly or a top 6 forward that can play a 2 way game. I realize this is scathing in some ways but it's the truth in my eyes. He is too weak physically. At 10.9 million I just don't see how he is an asset.

Depth Scoring:

Where was Ilya Mikheyev, Kaspari Kap and the others? Complete no shows. It sucks that so little of the cap can be dedicated to this area due to Matthews-Tavares-Marner.

Cap:

There's no way this team can move on with those 3 guys getting so much. One of Matthews-Tavares-Marner may need to move on. Don't want to make this a hit piece on Marner but Matthews isn't going anywhere (unless he demands a trade), JT either.

Hopeful:

William Nylander: He is probably public enemy 1 or 2 on here but I was encouraged by him this year. I would much rather keep him over Marner due to contract and size. I think Nylander has untapped potential and with Marner out of the way he could breakout in a way a lot of us didn't expect. As a 1st line winger on Matthews line, I could see 90 + points.

Unsure:

Frederick Andersen: I wish we would have lost 6-5 so I could be sure he was the problem. The thing is.... We didn't score a damn goal in 2 of the 5 games... Including the winner take all. He gave up a bad, bad goal that you simply cannot give up in that situation. We didn't score though, so how can we pin this on Freddy? It's hard to pick a side here.

John Tavares: I didn't want us to sign him. I always thought he was good but slightly overrated just like Stamkos. I didn't want either. I am not a huge fan of his game. He isn't the best skater, isn't the best playmaker, is signed for a huge amount and is 30. But he also does a lot of things well, and in a playoff series he was more effective than a lot of the no-shows. I mean, as the captain getting paid what he does, he damn well better but I am in no mans land with JT. I am not attached to him 1 bit but I don't hate him either. I think next season he has a lot to prove. He needs to lead this team and not miss open nets in deciding games. How about carry us for a few playoff games?
While I admit that Matthews is the Leafs best player, he has not / did not earn that paycheque.

Minus that 10 minute stretch of NON 5 on 5 hockey where everything fell into place and the Leafs scored 4 times (and, of course, Columbus BEST player was injured at the time) , he had 1 goal and 2 assists.

He has to play a heavier game and he has to carry the team to ONE playoff series win. That's what players making north of $11M/yr do. He did not.

As for the rest...

JT is too old and not going anyway - who would want him?

If we can eat part of his salary under the current CBA, Marner should return something worth while. Even without eating salary, Nylander will return something as well.

Once done, it will be time for Matthews to take this team to the next level - no excuses.
 

Bomber0104

Registered User
Apr 8, 2007
15,056
6,902
Burlington
One positive is at least it wasn't friggin Boston that knocked us out this year.

That would have made it sting a lot more.
 

HarryLime

Registered User
Jun 27, 2014
4,826
2,548
Halifax
While I admit that Matthews is the Leafs best player, he has not / did not earn that paycheque.

Minus that 10 minute stretch of NON 5 on 5 hockey where everything fell into place and the Leafs scored 4 times (and, of course, Columbus BEST player was injured at the time) , he had 1 goal and 2 assists.

He has to play a heavier game and he has to carry the team to ONE playoff series win. That's what players making north of $11M/yr do. He did not.

As for the rest...

JT is too old and not going anyway.

If we can eat part of his salary under the current CBA, Marner should return something worth while. Nylander, too.
Idk what series you were watching but Matthews was a force out there. In game 1, we were anemic but he was driving through the neutral zone into their zone and set up more chances than anyone. He had 6 points in 5 games, could have been more had his linemates been awake in game 1.
 

ORRFForever

Registered User
Oct 29, 2018
17,982
9,427
Idk what series you were watching but Matthews was a force out there. In game 1, we were anemic but he was driving through the neutral zone into their zone and set up more chances than anyone. He had 6 points in 5 games, could have been more had his linemates been awake in game 1.
But there is ALWAYS an excuse why he didn't do better. At $11.6M/yr, shouldn't there be NO excuses?
 

Plat87

Registered User
Nov 22, 2018
878
540
One positive is at least it wasn't friggin Boston that knocked us out this year.

That would have made it sting a lot more.

I actually think this year was worse from a competitive stand point, they weren't even good enough to get owned by the Bruins :laugh:.
 

ORRFForever

Registered User
Oct 29, 2018
17,982
9,427
Before the season, I said, "Now that Matthews has got his winger (Nylander) and got his BIG contract under his belt, there has to be NO more excuses."

But, here we are in Aug 2020, with more excuses :

* His line mates let him down.
* Jones was all over him.
* He carried the team for a 10 minute stretch in Game 4 - isn't that enough?
* He was great but didn't score.

To me, it's the same old, same old.
 

rumman

Registered User
Sep 10, 2008
13,538
9,699
I thought he was the catalyst for the comeback in game 4. He made a few really nice plays but didn't get rewarded. I do think you have a point I just see more potential in him than Marner and think he can turn it around. Marner at basically 11 million is tough. He's not ever going to not be the smallest, weakest player on the ice.
the real catalyst in game 4 was Spezza.

Nylander doesn't even sweat playing NHL hockey, either he is a medical phenomenon or the guy isn't trying hard enough.
 

ORRFForever

Registered User
Oct 29, 2018
17,982
9,427
Last point before I exercise in this HEAT...

If Matthews thought it was tough to score with Marner and Nylander, what's going to happen if we trade them away?

Let's hope and pray our 1/8 chance for immediate reinforcements pays off tonight.
 

Lemontree

Fire Dubas
Feb 12, 2018
1,377
1,502
So it's been a rough life as a Leafs fan and this is one of the all time lows but figured I'd make a thread where it's not all negative. What are some aspects you're happy with? Also list negatives to vent


Positives:

Auston Matthews: If there was ever 1 thing keeping me from completely losing interest/hope/passion it's him. If he stays here he will go down as one of the best Leafs ever. He was terrific in the series and I feel worse for him, especially after his post game 4 interview. We're lucky to have him.

Zach Hyman: We need more players that play with the intensity he does. Babcock was 100% right about him. He is a warrior and a heart and soul kind of player that you want in a battle.

Morgan Rielly: He makes mistakes, he's not perfect but he is terrific tbh. I haven't always been the biggest fan of his but he is our 2nd best player imo. He's still only 26 and getting better. I feel like his pinch game has got better. He will never be the shutdown anchor but that's ok. I feel like he is Duncan Keith lite defensively but offensively he is better in a lot of areas. I can live with the mistakes.

Uniforms: I spent 30 minutes thinking of a 4th positive and yeah.... I love that our uniforms are dope lol.

Jason Spezza: I feel for him too. He played with a lot of heart and this was before the fight. He provided a spark that the leaders of the team couldn't do.


Negatives:

Mitch Marner: This isn't prisoner of the moment it's something that has been building for 5 years. I wanted us to draft him in 2015. In the season he is mostly fine but there's always those moments in the back of my head where I watch him get embarrassed in physical confrontations and flail to the ground like a 7 year old boy getting tossed by his dad in play wrestling. I truly think come playoff time, this guy is counter productive. He might get a few points in open space on the power play, but at 10.9 million dollars, I would move off Marner while he is still valuable. I know he will put up 80-90 points next year but I don't care. I would much rather go into a playoff series with a guy on the Dave Perron, prime Patrick Hornqvist tier or even Jake Debrusk. I have lost 100% faith in Marner to be effective against a gritty team like Boston/Columbus in a playoff series. I would ship him out for a top pairing defensement to play with Rielly or a top 6 forward that can play a 2 way game. I realize this is scathing in some ways but it's the truth in my eyes. He is too weak physically. At 10.9 million I just don't see how he is an asset.

Depth Scoring:

Where was Ilya Mikheyev, Kaspari Kap and the others? Complete no shows. It sucks that so little of the cap can be dedicated to this area due to Matthews-Tavares-Marner.

Cap:

There's no way this team can move on with those 3 guys getting so much. One of Matthews-Tavares-Marner may need to move on. Don't want to make this a hit piece on Marner but Matthews isn't going anywhere (unless he demands a trade), JT either.

Hopeful:

William Nylander: He is probably public enemy 1 or 2 on here but I was encouraged by him this year. I would much rather keep him over Marner due to contract and size. I think Nylander has untapped potential and with Marner out of the way he could breakout in a way a lot of us didn't expect. As a 1st line winger on Matthews line, I could see 90 + points.

Unsure:

Frederick Andersen: I wish we would have lost 6-5 so I could be sure he was the problem. The thing is.... We didn't score a damn goal in 2 of the 5 games... Including the winner take all. He gave up a bad, bad goal that you simply cannot give up in that situation. We didn't score though, so how can we pin this on Freddy? It's hard to pick a side here.

John Tavares: I didn't want us to sign him. I always thought he was good but slightly overrated just like Stamkos. I didn't want either. I am not a huge fan of his game. He isn't the best skater, isn't the best playmaker, is signed for a huge amount and is 30. But he also does a lot of things well, and in a playoff series he was more effective than a lot of the no-shows. I mean, as the captain getting paid what he does, he damn well better but I am in no mans land with JT. I am not attached to him 1 bit but I don't hate him either. I think next season he has a lot to prove. He needs to lead this team and not miss open nets in deciding games. How about carry us for a few playoff games?

Other than score the game tying goal what did Hyman do in this series? I don't remember him winning any battles, being a net front presence that would grind down a Jones or Werenski over a 5 game series. He is one of the heart and soul players on this team and were was he to be found when it came to giving this team a spark? He should have been one of the first players to be bumping either CBJ goalie when it was obvious they were in their comfort zone early in games. Players like Hyman and Clifford need to do more to drag their team into a dog fight at pivot times in a series. We need to add more players in the off-season that are willing to play this style.
 

Zack47

Registered User
Oct 21, 2017
98
137
Positives:

Matthews was good, I agree. Nick Robertson looked promising. I thought Dermott stepped up.

Negatives:

Freddie. Let's just face it: he can't play in crucial games. No argument. The evidence is in. Forget about whether we scored goals. That does not mean he should let in soft goals at CRUCIAL moments.

Marner: spooked himself with that contract. I used to like him.

Dubas: thinks he's smart, but is really like Babs in some ways -- won't learn, doesn't listen. The Kadri trade was a disaster by the way: we could have used him big time in this series, because Kerfoot is so ineffective, and so is Barrie. More experienced GM, please.
 

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