Popularity of other sports in Finland

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FiLe

Mr. Know-It-Nothing
Oct 9, 2009
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This. These people are the cancer of Finnish sports. Not only in football, this goes for hockey too. I think everyone knows that guy who won't go to Liiga/Mestis or whatever league their local team is playing for, but stays up all night to watch NHL because that's ''real hockey''.
People on the other side of the fence certainly don't seem to lack that "holier-than-thou" attitude either...

Seriously. Finland is a free country and we're all individuals. So concentrate on your own fandom and that of the like-minded people instead of those who enjoy other things.

Besides, I don't quite get your logic. If there is someone like that in the vicinity, shouldn't it be nothing but a good thing they don't go into these domestic games? If they did, they would likely do nothing but complain about the level of play, ruining the experience of all those genuinely enthusiastic people around them. So yeah. Serious non-sequitur there, dude. If they don't go to the games as you say, they're hardly cancerous at all. Or are you one of those professional grumps who seem to be bothered by the simple fact that something they don't agree with exists?

Yes, they may be silly people. But as long as they stay with other silly people, there's really no reason to complain.

This coming from a hockey connoisseur, who also enjoys a variety of other sports - both domestic and foreign - like basketball, volleyball, floorball... I've even taken into little soccer lately. But if the Veikkausliiga stands are populated by condescending jerks like you, you can be sure you won't see me there in a while.
 
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Jonimaus

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Jul 15, 2011
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And what's funny is that Barcelona left their best players home, sent a B-team to Helsinki, put their third goalie in the net and the players went drinking the night before.

And the result?

6:0 :laugh:

What's the point of all this? That a finnish team was not as good as Barcelonas B-team? Welcome to the world of football where Barcelonas B-team is still a very good team. Not sure if this is news to you. :dunno: Unless you're a top half team in one of the better leagues there's no shame.
 

Urbanskog

Platinum Member
Feb 8, 2014
3,551
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What's the point of all this? That a finnish team was not as good as Barcelonas B-team? Welcome to the world of football where Barcelonas B-team is still a very good team. Not sure if this is news to you. :dunno: Unless you're a top half team in one of the better leagues there's no shame.

The point is the score would have been at least 14:0 in favor of Barcelona, had they taken the match as seriously as HJK did.
 

vsk92

Alltid IFK
Mar 31, 2011
7,575
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Scotland.
The point is the score would have been at least 14:0 in favor of Barcelona, had they taken the match as seriously as HJK did.

Maybe but the score of the game wasn't the purpose of it being arranged, the money made from the game is being used to improve youth and training facilities.

I'm slightly optimistic about the national team's future as there a good young players coming through after a lull in quality in the past.

Also basketball will continue to grow, there was a bid put in place for the 2015 Eurobasket but I think that has been withdrawn now. If the team can win some games in the World Cup this month that will also help, also with some nba players -Murphy and Gooden- joining the team also catches people's attention.
 

Jonimaus

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Jul 15, 2011
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The point is the score would have been at least 14:0 in favor of Barcelona, had they taken the match as seriously as HJK did.

So again, you're trying to argue that HJK is worse than Barcelona, by a lot? I'm sorry, but I don't think this is news to anyone. Barcelona is better than 99,999% of the football teams in the world, and a lot better than 99% of them.
 

Danjel

Registered User
Jul 28, 2014
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People on the other side of the fence certainly don't seem to lack that "holier-than-thou" attitude either...

Seriously. Finland is a free country and we're all individuals. So concentrate on your own fandom and that of the like-minded people instead of those who enjoy other things.

Besides, I don't quite get your logic. If there is someone like that in the vicinity, shouldn't it be nothing but a good thing they don't go into these domestic games? If they did, they would likely do nothing but complain about the level of play, ruining the experience of all those genuinely enthusiastic people around them. So yeah. Serious non-sequitur there, dude. If they don't go to the games as you say, they're hardly cancerous at all. Or are you one of those professional grumps who seem to be bothered by the simple fact that something they don't agree with exists?

Yes, they may be silly people. But as long as they stay with other silly people, there's really no reason to complain.

This coming from a hockey connoisseur, who also enjoys a variety of other sports - both domestic and foreign - like basketball, volleyball, floorball... I've even taken into little soccer lately. But if the Veikkausliiga stands are populated by condescending jerks like you, you can be sure you won't see me there in a while.

If even half of the so called ''fans'' who are signing to their televisions every Saturday night would go to their local clubs game every now and then, and actually pay for their tickets, buy a beer etc. at least in football we would see the level of domestic leagues raise significantly.

What do you think separates club like HJK from other big Nordic clubs like AIK? IMO the biggest difference is match day revenue. I think AIK's average attendance has been something like 15000-20000 in the past 5 years or so. HJK struggles to get 5000 to their games. That's at least 2 millions lost revenue right there over the course of season. I don't think that the difference between Veikkausliiga and Allsvenskan is that big. Yet Allsvenskan's average attendance is multiple compared to that of Veikkausliiga.

Meanwhile Swedish people support their local clubs, the average Finn stays at home watching Liverpool and signing You'll never walk alone to their TV.

The point is the score would have been at least 14:0 in favor of Barcelona, had they taken the match as seriously as HJK did.

How seriously HJK took the match in your opinion? Just curious.
 

FiLe

Mr. Know-It-Nothing
Oct 9, 2009
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If even half of the so called ''fans'' who are signing to their televisions every Saturday night would go to their local clubs game every now and then, and actually pay for their tickets, buy a beer etc. at least in football we would see the level of domestic leagues raise significantly.

What do you think separates club like HJK from other big Nordic clubs like AIK? IMO the biggest difference is match day revenue. I think AIK's average attendance has been something like 15000-20000 in the past 5 years or so. HJK struggles to get 5000 to their games. That's at least 2 millions lost revenue right there over the course of season. I don't think that the difference between Veikkausliiga and Allsvenskan is that big. Yet Allsvenskan's average attendance is multiple compared to that of Veikkausliiga.

Meanwhile Swedish people support their local clubs, the average Finn stays at home watching Liverpool and signing You'll never walk alone to their TV.
Boo-hoo. Here's a newsflash: Success breeds interest. Finnish soccer needs to get better before it can draw in more crowds. While it may feel like a silly thing for someone already fighting the good fight (because then those people would practically be "manwhoring" the local clubs), it's pretty much human nature. Acting openly superior towards those who don't or being bitter because "lesser" venues like hockey are more successful is not going to change a thing.

I don't really argue that the inverse couldn't be true, though. Growing interest can also lead to growing success. However, in order to achieve said interest you also need to have at least some level of success to get the ball rolling in the right direction. It's simply the natural order of things, not just in soccer, but in all sports. Basketball is the most recent example.

Harsh, I know. But it's also the right order of things. Because it ensures that once things start rolling in the right direction, they also keep rolling in the right direction. In the long run, the inverse leads to something that is far more damaging to any sport - complacency. There will always be people who want their piece of the cake and wish to exploit the achieved success for their personal gain. And they think they can get away with it if they figure the grand audience will tune in anyway. We hockey folks especially know that, as there have been some very recent reminders.

I'm glad there are people willing to go through the thick and thin to see improvements in their chosen sport. It's not a bad cause, so - like I said - keep fighting the good fight. Just watch a little more closely who you're picking as enemies. Because right now, you're going against windmills.
 

Raimoh

Registered User
Jul 21, 2010
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Certainly more seriously than FCB, don't you think?

Well it didn't really seem like it. Both teams had more important games coming up and it was visible. HJK also didn't have Forssell in the roster so both teams were equally weakened :sarcasm:
 

QnebO

Wheel, snipe, celly
Feb 11, 2010
9,763
644
Prime example of football hater taking shot at football without even checking the facts.

This was an exhibition game. HJK is in the middle of the season, under two weeks before their most important games of the season, which are worth few millions for the club. You think they really give a **** about some exhibition game at this point of the season? They got a really nice revenue from the match, which they will spend to develop training circumstances for their juniors. Stupid manwhores paid themselves sick to see Messi and co. meanwhile HJK are laughing on their way to the bank.

Get your facts straight ****ing redneck.

:laugh: Oh the irony! Football fans are something else than rednecks.. Barring those violent hooligan riots before football games :sarcasm:

If some sport is, the football is the redneck sport, you should deal with that.
 

FiLe

Mr. Know-It-Nothing
Oct 9, 2009
6,897
1,260
Rather the players fight than the fans. I would say it's pretty civiliazed to enjoy a good fight, happened it in boxing rink, hockey rink or colosseum.
Indeed. Hockey fights are nothing but a cultural phenomenon descending from the Romans - also known as the forefathers of all western civilization.

So there is nothing wrong with being a hockey fan, as we carry the cultural heritage of a great European empire. Soccer folk don't have to feel undermined though, since they can track their lineage to another great empire - namely, the Mayans. They did prefer to keep kicking the ball in the court and human sacrifices as two separate forms of entertainment.
 

QnebO

Wheel, snipe, celly
Feb 11, 2010
9,763
644
Indeed. Hockey fights are nothing but a cultural phenomenon descending from the Romans - also known as the forefathers of all western civilization.

So there is nothing wrong with being a hockey fan, as we carry the cultural heritage of a great European empire. Soccer folk don't have to feel undermined though, since they can track their lineage to another great empire - namely, the Mayans. They did prefer to keep kicking the ball in the court and human sacrifices as two separate forms of entertainment.

You nailed it, fellow civilized hockey fan!
 

Loffer

Registered User
Sep 22, 2011
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Okay, guys. You have got a nice debate up and burning here no doubt. The one always ready to get into flames, a very flammable subject indeed. Soccerists vs. hockey people of Finland. -Wow & Lol.

But it is also an area where what we've got is a failure to communicate.

Hockey is hockey. It is not soccer. Soccer is soccer, or football. And it is not hockey.

Indeed.

They are very different areas of culture , in fact. The former is "civilized" in the sense it is mainly played in "civilized" parts of the world. And not in the heart of darkness, to say the least. Not in Africa. Nope! LOL.

The latter is "civilized" in the sense it has much deeper and wider cultural and political, historical, roots and connotations. It has literature and philosophy on its side, so to speak.

I would say that sport as a 'Roman enterprise' was indeed circus for the people to entertain them and distract from the social defects etc. Fighting in Colosseum or ice rink might be called "civilised" in this 'wicked' sense. It appeals to human nature in its low register - and there you go! LOL. Forget the social issues and tune in.

Then again soccer alias football rather grew among the lesser ones, working class, socially inferior and economically deprived etc. Thus it has wider social and political functions and awareness attached to it historically compared to the "neat but nasty" ice hockey.

Yes. The "football fights" belong to streets, to the large social canvas, to the society at large, to the politics of everyman - and as such to football. But not on the soccer field or football pitch but instead everywhere around it. On the stands also. Yes. Indeed. That is the nature of football.

It is played everywhere as we know. In ghettos, favelas, slums, mud hut villages. - Whatever you call them.

That is its grass root level and growing ground. Has always been and will always be.

And this shows even today when the mega brands like Real or Barca have been "manwhored" all over the world in the name of "modern football". Since there is a movement called "Against modern football".

Is there a movement called "Against modern ice hockey"? I don't think so.

That is the difference.

Don't get me wrong. Hockey is a great sport. But it is SPORT only. And Business. Yes, some Soviet vs. West cold war -poltics also way back then but not anymore. Just NHL and lesser leagues. The game. A great game.


Football is not the game. It is the civilised or brutal society - whatever you call it. It is the true order of things. As they are and have always been. Like it or not. That is football. Not the game. Not only. Not really.

Football and hockey ("fans") look things through different perspectives. They stand on the opposite side sof the looking glass, as if: Ice hockey is a neat metaphor of social struggle in cute form of entertainment. The fights are symbolical and comical. The fans applaude after them. --Football is an expression of society in much more direct and forceful sense. It carries the struggle through its every facet and public. The fans fight after applauds.

Ice hockey fans are those who go to church on Sundays; football fans go to pubs.

Ice hockey is "opium for the people"; football is the people, and riots on the streets.

Yup.

Support your local club. Wow. ;)
 
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Jonimaus

Registered User
Jul 15, 2011
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I'm pretty tired of the idea "football is for the poor, hockey for the people with money". It's 100% complete and utter ********. Countries with a lot of people who could easily have a ton more hockey players, as Germany, Sweden, England, France and so on, still choose football. Especially Sweden with a big hockey following.

Yes, money is a big part for many countries, but there are a TON of countries with a TON of people who could easily pay for hockey equipment who still choose football. It's just a sad excuse.
 

FiLe

Mr. Know-It-Nothing
Oct 9, 2009
6,897
1,260
I'm pretty tired of the idea "football is for the poor, hockey for the people with money". It's 100% complete and utter ********. Countries with a lot of people who could easily have a ton more hockey players, as Germany, Sweden, England, France and so on, still choose football. Especially Sweden with a big hockey following.
Partially true. Soccer is not just for the poor, it's pretty much for everybody. Part of the reason why it's not big in the areas you mentioned is that even people who could afford to play hockey prefer soccer instead.

Hockey, however, is a wealthy man's game. While there is room for growth in said areas, it will never be a global sport.

Interestingly, the inverse is the main source of animosity between soccer and hockey fans in Finland. According to the former, big reason for the state of the Finnish soccer being what it is is due to many a talented youth picking hockey because they view it as more "glamorous".

Now, I don't know how the status of soccer in Finland could be improved, but I'm pretty sure being PO'd at the hockey people for having handled their stuff exceptionally well and belittling the fans of the game at every given opportunity is not a viable way.
 

WinTheRightGames

Registered User
Jan 7, 2014
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What football needs is a few more qualifying matches like this and it becomes much more popular. Success breeds interest.
 

Loffer

Registered User
Sep 22, 2011
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414
I'm pretty tired of the idea "football is for the poor, hockey for the people with money". It's 100% complete and utter ********. Countries with a lot of people who could easily have a ton more hockey players, as Germany, Sweden, England, France and so on, still choose football. Especially Sweden with a big hockey following.

Yes, money is a big part for many countries, but there are a TON of countries with a TON of people who could easily pay for hockey equipment who still choose football. It's just a sad excuse.

Reading comprehension? Hello? I didn't say that.I said something else. Historically, socially, culturally, politically football and hockey are not even on the same table.

I gave a sociological outline of that difference.

The function of "fighting" in both sport is one interesting and illuminating issue, indeed. Consider that.
 

Jonimaus

Registered User
Jul 15, 2011
3,005
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Reading comprehension? Hello? I didn't say that.I said something else. Historically, socially, culturally, politically football and hockey are not even on the same table.

I gave a sociological outline of that difference.

The function of "fighting" in both sport is one interesting and illuminating issue, indeed. Consider that.

Reading comprehension? Hello? Did I quote you?
 

Urbanskog

Platinum Member
Feb 8, 2014
3,551
765
Helsinki
What annoys me is the mentality of Finnish soccer fans. Everything gets blamed on hockey, they keep repeating such sophisticated chants like "kendo vittuun Suomesta" and hockey is stereotyped as the sport of rednecks. For example, the stance towards hockey is very hostile on the biggest Finnish soccer forum (FutisForum2). They go as far as having raids on surveys where hockey and soccer somehow compete with each other, making jokes about burning hockey facilities and people replying to hockey related threads too much in the other sports section get banned (unless the nature of those replies is negative). They will also make sure that you are reminded how “marginal” hockey is, as a way to justify all the junk they throw at the sport.

Sounds insane, I know, but it's the reality.
 

FiLe

Mr. Know-It-Nothing
Oct 9, 2009
6,897
1,260
What annoys me is the mentality of Finnish soccer fans. Everything gets blamed on hockey, they keep repeating such sophisticated chants like "kendo vittuun Suomesta" and hockey is stereotyped as the sport of rednecks. For example, the stance towards hockey is very hostile on the biggest Finnish soccer forum (FutisForum2). They go as far as having raids on surveys where hockey and soccer somehow compete with each other, making jokes about burning hockey facilities and people replying to hockey related threads too much in the other sports section get banned (unless the nature of those replies is negative). They will also make sure that you are reminded how “marginal” hockey is, as a way to justify all the junk they throw at the sport.
Whereas the Jatkoaika boards, the biggest Finnish hockey forum, just dedicated its own temporary section to FIFA World Cup and soccer is overwhelmingly the most popular topic in their "other sports" section. To be fair though, Veikkausliiga gets little to no attention, which probably makes them all the "manwhoring" kind of a soccer fan - so no brownie points for 'em, I guess.

Still, if they persist on calling hockey fans "rednecks", it'd be a shame if the irony was lost on 'em. Especially when I've yet to run into a hockey fan who would treat any other sport with nothing but budding respect and varying levels of curiosity - and even though they sometimes do find slow-tempo soccer "boring", they do get that there also exists room for people who might find it their cup of tea. Some do call the level of Finnish soccer garbage though, which I however never have managed to take as a slight towards the whole sport, but - as the expression indicates - the level of play in Finland, making it really nothing but a matter of fact. Should things get better with soccer here, they'd probably stop calling it that.

Of course, part of this behavior may stem from the fact that when ones sport is in dominant position in the country, one can certainly afford to act gracious since there's no obvious threat to its popularity from other venues. Which, of course, is inverse in the case of soccer fans. Still, all this reveals is that by acting superior towards the game of hockey and its fans, Finnish soccer fans are simply attempting to hide their own insecurities.

A funny case in point actually comes from the realm of certain other sport - namely, basketball. Just a week ago or so the President of the Finnish Basketball NT fan club gave a rather careless statement where he called basketball fans more civilized and well-off than soccer fans or "those hockey fans who like thrash fast food joints". Interestingly, this caused an immediate backlash - among basketball fans, forcing said person issue a very quick public apology. But even more telling was the reaction among the fans of those other two sports. Some soccer fans actually cheered on the comment, because while it did contain a small slight towards them, it contained an even bigger slight towards hockey fans.

And hockey fans? They barely registered the comment, mostly treating it with complete indifference. So yeah. There's certainly an aesop there somewhere.
 

Danjel

Registered User
Jul 28, 2014
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FF2 this and Jatkoaika that. How about base your opinion on actual people and not some internet forums?

Personally I have occasionally experienced pure hate inside when I've met ''true'' hockey fans over the years. Almost always when a conversation with hockey fan turns into football you get the football is women's game, football players are ******s and REAL men play hockey arguments almost immediately. Also the multiculturalism of football is usually a terrible thing because best Finnish player is a Russian and the national team is full of immigrants and Finnish Swedes.

Of course not all the hockey fans are this kind of ignorant rednecks, but based on my personal experience these type of people are not rare at all. Not really worth ruining your day/evening trying to have a ''conversation'' or trying reasonably argue with person with sub-80 IQ.
 
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FiLe

Mr. Know-It-Nothing
Oct 9, 2009
6,897
1,260
FF2 this and Jatkoaika that. How about base your opinion on actual people and not some internet forums?
Says the guy who is himself fighting against windmills on an Internet forum...

Of course not all the hockey fans are this kind of ignorant rednecks, but based on my personal experience these type of people are not rare at all. Not really worth ruining your day/evening trying to have a ''conversation'' or trying reasonably argue with person with sub-80 IQ.
That's exactly the point. There are jerks on every venue. In the end, none of us have the right to take the high road. Yet I see plenty of people who try, both within this thread and in wider context. And I happen to think that they all deserve their equal share of mocking.
 
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