NHL Entry Draft POLL: Would You Be Fine With Sanderson At 5?

Ok with Sanderson at 5?


  • Total voters
    196
Jan 19, 2006
22,961
4,659
Calgary
We've had so much turnover on our scouting staff in recent years that I'm not sure we have any reasonable idea about whether they're good, bad or average.

A fairly substantial portion of our amateur scouting staff [Dan Boeser, Todd Stirling, Christian De Blois, Kyle Flanagan, Anders Ostberg, Bobby Strumm] have literally been hired on within the last season or two. We just don't have enough information to say what these guys are capable of.

What I do know is that a lot of veteran scouts that were largely responsible for some of our best picks are no longer with the team. I'm talking about people like Bob Loews, Anders Forsberg, Vaclav Burda, Lewis Mongelluzzo, etc. At this point in time our scouting staff is small, fairly young, and rather inexperienced.

Though I will note that it could be argued that perhaps a shake-up was called for after the team had very poor drafts in 2012, 2013, 2014 and likely 2016 as well.

Is the dude that made all the stupid overage picks from random high school leagues in the States (Robbie Baillargeon, Bryce Aneloski, Todd Burgess) gone yet?
 

DuncanMacpherson

Registered User
Apr 6, 2010
7,489
3,824
We've had so much turnover on our scouting staff in recent years that I'm not sure we have any reasonable idea about whether they're good, bad or average.

A fairly substantial portion of our amateur scouting staff [Dan Boeser, Todd Stirling, Christian De Blois, Kyle Flanagan, Anders Ostberg, Bobby Strumm] have literally been hired on within the last season or two. We just don't have enough information to say what these guys are capable of.

What I do know is that a lot of veteran scouts that were largely responsible for some of our best picks are no longer with the team. I'm talking about people like Bob Loews, Anders Forsberg, Vaclav Burda, Lewis Mongelluzzo, etc. At this point in time our scouting staff is small, fairly young, and rather inexperienced.

Though I will note that it could be argued that perhaps a shake-up was called for after the team had very poor drafts in 2012, 2013, 2014 and likely 2016 as well.
That was the guy who really pushed for the team to draft Karlsson, wish he was still onboard.
 

h2

Registered User
Mar 26, 2002
4,657
1,996
The defence would not yet be solidified, Chabot and Sanderson both play the left side. the right ride is counting on JBD and Thomson panning out which may not happen.

Brannstrom is primarily a right side dman. I’m not concerned about the right side with that factored in.
 

Ouroboros

There is no armour against Fate
Feb 3, 2008
14,929
10,167
Is the dude that made all the stupid overage picks from random high school leagues in the States (Robbie Baillargeon, Bryce Aneloski, Todd Burgess) gone yet?

That's Bob Janecyk. He's still on the staff, and he's been around since at least the late 90's.
 

bert

Registered User
Nov 11, 2002
35,984
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Visit site
You mean if both JBD and Sanderson hit their potential, as well as Brannstrom. That isn't top-5 unless everything goes well.
Yeah pretty much everyone has to hit. I personally want them to take a D man at 5, dont care if its Sanderson or Drysdale. Just one of them, they gotta build from the back end out here. This draft has tons of forward depth and the sens have so many picks in the late first and 2nd round they can take some chances on high risk high reward forwards. If the team would entertain trading Brannstrom for 10th overall id be more inclined to take Drysdale if I had the choice but I think PD has too much pride. Essentially I am saying id rather have Quinn or Holtz over Brannstrom. Not sure you can run a D core with all 3, Drysdale, Brannstrom and Wolanin.

I guess the question is would you rather have Raymond/Perfetti and Brannstrom or Quinn/Holtz and Drysdale. I think everyone knows my preference.
 
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Sens of Anarchy

Registered User
Jul 9, 2013
65,007
49,540
Yeah pretty much everyone has to hit. I personally want them to take a D man at 5, dont care if its Sanderson or Drysdale. Just one of them, they gotta build from the back end out here. This draft has tons of forward depth and the sens have so many picks in the late first and 2nd round they can take some chances on high risk high reward forwards. If the team would entertain trading Brannstrom for 10th overall id be more inclined to take Drysdale if I had the choice but I think PD has too much pride. Essentially I am saying id rather have Quinn or Holtz over Brannstrom. Not sure you can run a D core with all 3, Drysdale, Brannstrom and Wolanin.

I guess the question is would you rather have Raymond/Perfetti and Brannstrom or Quinn/Holtz and Drysdale. I think everyone knows my preference.

Brannstrom + 28 + 33? ... I think all the NHL teams would rather have Quinn or Holtz over Brannstrom alone ; How much do we need to add.. I think its an excellent idea to upgrade our D while getting 2 top 10 forwards.
 

dumbdick

Galactic Defender
May 31, 2008
11,292
3,700
Mann only became chief scout in 2016, picks made a decade before that like lee are about as relevant as Hossa and Havlat.

Bowers and Brown are the only guys you mentioned drafted with Mann at the helm, the former being a very late 1st and the latter still a solid prospect. You also are guilty of cherry picking. If i suggested we were amazing at drafting because Karlsson, Chabot, Tkachuk, Zibanejad, Spezza, Havlat, Hossa, Foligno was amazing haul for 8 picks, that would be pretty misleading.

The reality is any honest assesment of our drafting has to consider who we left on the table to get our guy (draft position matters a lot) and has to show our success or failure in terms of how it compaires to other teams because the reality is a lot of 1st round picks do bust.

Mann has done some things to earn trust. I believe he was the one who pushed for Chabot as a regional scout before getting promoted, and was in charge when we passed on Zadina for Tkachuk. Its a bit early to call anything hes done a flop aside from Bowers, but at 28th oa your throwing darts.
Poster said he has faith in our scouting.

I pointed to 9 missed 1st round picks in the past 15 years. I don't share his faith. Mann hasn't done enough to earn it, and I don't think changing your head scout is enough to completely wipe away a pretty meh track record.
 

Micklebot

Moderator
Apr 27, 2010
53,145
30,369
Poster said he has faith in our scouting.

I pointed to 9 missed 1st round picks in the past 15 years. I don't share his faith. Mann hasn't done enough to earn it, and I don't think changing your head scout is enough to completely wipe away a pretty meh track record.

I think claiming Brown as a missed pick is flawed as he is still very much a legit prospect. I think including a guy drafted 15 years ago, and by not our previous gm but his predecessor, in your 9 missed 1st round picks is also deeply flawed way to judge trustworthiness of current drafting.

It's perfectly reasonable to question our scouting, i just think your capable of doing so in a much more balanced manner than to throw out names that have next to no relevance to our current scouts and completely ignore any semblence of what reasonable expectations should have been given where we drafted. I think the way you presented your case only serves to undermine it.

Just stick with the current scouts haven't made enough good picks to earn your faith, or that enough time hasn't passed to judge them in you opinion. How Lee turned out or Puempel and Noesen really isnt relevant. Almost 70% of the picks you listed are from over 7 or more years ago and a very different group of scouts.
 

dumbdick

Galactic Defender
May 31, 2008
11,292
3,700
I think claiming Brown as a missed pick is flawed as he is still very much a legit prospect. I think including a guy drafted 15 years ago, and by not our previous gm but his predecessor, in your 9 missed 1st round picks is also deeply flawed way to judge trustworthiness of current drafting.

It's perfectly reasonable to question our scouting, i just think your capable of doing so in a much more balanced manner than to throw out names that have next to no relevance to our current scouts and completely ignore any semblence of what reasonable expectations should have been given where we drafted. I think the way you presented your case only serves to undermine it.

Just stick with the current scouts haven't made enough good picks to earn your faith, or that enough time hasn't passed to judge them in you opinion. How Lee turned out or Puempel and Noesen really isnt relevant. Almost 70% of the picks you listed are from over 7 or more years ago and a very different group of scouts.
The reason most of the prospects are older is because the new guys haven't had enough time to call it one way or the other. Even White is still a question mark.

So if you only want to evaluate new prospects under new staff you'll always have rose coloured glasses on. The scouts' tenures aren't long enough to judge a good body of work until they're gone. I remember being so stoked about pretty much every one of those busted prospects on my list, and it was commonly agreed here that the sens scouted well. Turns out that was all misguided.

Regardless, I think the best you can say is that our scouting went from being "not great" to "not sure". And I don't believe changing some of the staff gives them a full pass on everything that came before.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Micklebot

Moderator
Apr 27, 2010
53,145
30,369
The reason most of the prospects are older is because the new guys haven't had enough time to call it one way or the other. Even White is still a question mark.

So if you only want to evaluate new prospects under new staff you'll always have rose coloured glasses on. The scouts' tenures aren't long enough to judge a good body of work until they're gone. I remember being so stoked about pretty much every one of those busted prospects on my list, and it was commonly agreed here that the sens scouted well. Turns out that was all misguided.

Regardless, I think the best you can say is that our scouting went from being "not great" to "not sure". And I don't believe changing some of the staff gives them a full pass on everything that came before.

So a couple points;

I hope your job performance isn't evaluated based on your predecessor's work.

You are right that most of Dorion's and Mann's picks are too young to evaluate based on NHL performance, but you can judge their progress relative to other team's picks in their range. There is still uncertainty, but that's life.

Lastly, lots of people where down on the drafting in 2012 to 2014 despite recent picks like Karlsson, Smith, Silvferberg, Stone, Hoffman, Pageau, Zibanejad, Dzingel and Boro being successful in the 4 draft years prior. it's quite possible to not have rose coloured glasses if you evaluate current progress instead of past, often unrelated, success.
 
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Hale The Villain

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Apr 2, 2008
25,658
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Cowen - Karlsson
Weircioch - Ceci

And before that we were salivating over

Cowen - Karlsson
Wiercioch - Rundblad

Although I do think Sanderson, Brannstrom, JBD and Wolanin are all far safer prospects than Cowen (no IQ or talent), Rundblad (no IQ and bad skater), Wiercioch (terrible skater) and Ceci (no IQ), as all 4 have average or above-average skating, IQ and talent.
 

ReginKarlssonLehner

Let's Win It All
May 3, 2010
40,755
11,055
Dubai Marina
You mean if both JBD and Sanderson hit their potential, as well as Brannstrom. That isn't top-5 unless everything goes well.

Chabot is a top 5-10 defender imo, outside of some inconsistencies last year, and Sanderson's potential is top 10 defender. Even if Brannstrom and JBD end up as number 4 defenders (which isnt their potential IMO) then we'd be up up there. Especially the style of defenders Chabot and Sanderson can be and how JBD and Brann complement

Cowen - Karlsson
Weircioch - Ceci

? If Ceci or Cowen reached their potential we'd have been golden. Instead they ended up as number 7th guys.

Denote the condition I placed in my original post.
 
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aragorn

Do The Right Thing
Aug 8, 2004
28,471
8,999
Chabot - Schneider (2020 NYI pick trade up)
Sanderson (2020 #5 OA) - JBD
Kleven (2020 2nd rd pick) - Schmidt (2021 trade up pick)
 

NyQuil

Big F$&*in Q
Jan 5, 2005
95,348
59,259
Ottawa, ON
I answered “no” but I’ve been wrong before.

My honest opinion is that I’d rather try to stock the top six at this stage.

I think our forwards are in worse shape than our defence as far as high end skill is concerned and there are enough BPA forwards in this draft.
 
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