Speculation: Poll: Who would you Fire, if anyone

[Hello Johnny]

6 years of JD and 5 years of Jarmo has netted 3 playoff wins. 3.

The farm system is a joke. The long term contracts save for Jones and Bob are all either bad or mediocre.

No. It's not "stupid" to want to clean house. The notion that JD gives the franchise "credibility", that may be. There are plenty of known hockey people who I'm sure would be thrilled to death to be the TP of the CBJ. Dumping JD would hardly reduce the "credibility" of the franchise.

The PP is dead last. With Panarin, Z and Jones. The PK is the fourth worst in the league. The team averages about the 5th worst goal output per game in the league. If it weren't for Bobrovski-whom the GM didn't sign to a 7 year deal when he had the optimal chance to do it-this would be a lottery team. Tortorella has been dropped the ball with special teams and his personnel usage. Boone Jenner has averaged 17 minutes per game. Slow, 5 goal (or is it 6?) Boone Jenner.

A first time GM whose track record is mixed, at best, has been given ample time to succeed. He hasn't. The Team President has had plenty of time to build the franchise as well. If no playoff series victories is an adequate performance for JD by your measure, then your standards are very low. I doubt that CBJ team revenues are anything to write home about either. So he hasn't excelled in either the business side nor the on ice side. He's 64. The team faces at least a retooling. Letting it be guided by a 64 year old with JD's track record, is,well, stupid.

K. Name some potential candidates.

 

[GoJackets1]

6 years of JD and 5 years of Jarmo has netted 3 playoff wins. 3.

The farm system is a joke. The long term contracts save for Jones and Bob are all either bad or mediocre.

No. It's not "stupid" to want to clean house. The notion that JD gives the franchise "credibility", that may be. There are plenty of known hockey people who I'm sure would be thrilled to death to be the TP of the CBJ. Dumping JD would hardly reduce the "credibility" of the franchise.

The PP is dead last. With Panarin, Z and Jones. The PK is the fourth worst in the league. The team averages about the 5th worst goal output per game in the league. If it weren't for Bobrovski-whom the GM didn't sign to a 7 year deal when he had the optimal chance to do it-this would be a lottery team. Tortorella has been dropped the ball with special teams and his personnel usage. Boone Jenner has averaged 17 minutes per game. Slow, 5 goal (or is it 6?) Boone Jenner.

A first time GM whose track record is mixed, at best, has been given ample time to succeed. He hasn't. The Team President has had plenty of time to build the franchise as well. If no playoff series victories is an adequate performance for JD by your measure, then your standards are very low. I doubt that CBJ team revenues are anything to write home about either. So he hasn't excelled in either the business side nor the on ice side. He's 64. The team faces at least a retooling. Letting it be guided by a 64 year old with JD's track record, is,well, stupid.

If anything, the biggest indictment on Jarmo/JD would be hiring a coach that isn't a good fit with the players they drafted and acquired.

 

[thebus88]

If anything, the biggest indictment on Jarmo/JD would be hiring a coach that isn't a good fit with the players they drafted and acquired.

According to who? A bunch of people on an online message board that, IMO, probably nearly 50% have never put on ice skates since childhood?

This coach who "isn't a fit" also just coached this team to the franchises best year LAST YEAR. While being a "top 5" team league-wide all year and also tying A LEAGUE ALL-TIME WINS IN A ROW RECORD.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

K. Name some potential candidates.

Not my job. Can't claim to be familiar with the universe of candidates. But, I'll provide a list of characteristics I'd like to see in each position.

Team President................... Someone who has a history of demonstrated success leading an organization. Would also have to be media savvy and have strong sales ability. I don't necessarily limit such a person to having a hockey background though that would be desirable. JD was fired from STL and to my knowledge had no record of successfully leading an organization anywhere. Would not be interested in a hockey "name" whose resume was as weak as Davidson's.

GM................Would be comfortable with someone with previous GM experienced or an Assistant GM who came from a successful organization. Definitely opposed to a former player who hasn't learned the ropes by serving a substantial apprenticeship. An Yzerman backgroung would be fine. An assistant GM who might be low profile would be OK as well. Someone who had served under Poile, Lamoriello, Yzerman or a Cheveldayoff-type would be probably qualified to assume a GMs role. Jarmo's background was fine. He's just no great shakes who could probably be improved upon without too much difficulty.

Coach.........I really like the AHL coach model. Someone who has experienced success at that level and even lower levels (ECHL). Guys like Quenville don't interest me. Guys like Cooper, Gallant and Laviolette would be no brainers, but they're not available. Cassidy from Boston *might* be interesting and from what I can find, his contract expires after this season. A sharp young assistant NHL coach who has learned the ropes would be fine as well. Just no ex players who are where they are because of their playing days. Not a big fan of the juniors or college coach to NHL model, but once again, I am not familiar with who is who so there might be a whole lot of talented coaches who are from those backgrounds who might fit the bill. Definitely not Shaw or Larsen, I might add. I also lean toward candidates who have an NHL playing background or at least a lengthy minor league playing resume.

I find it hard to believe that many people on this board feel that the current triumvirate is so special. I guess familiarity breeds some sort of loyalty to the current position holders.

 

[GoJackets1]

According to who? A bunch of people on an online message board that, IMO, probably nearly 50% have never put on ice skates since childhood?

This coach who "isn't a fit" also just coached this team to the franchises best year LAST YEAR. While being a "top 5" team league-wide all year and also tying A LEAGUE ALL-TIME WINS IN A ROW RECORD.

Yes, the same coach who lamented the fact that "we aren't playing our game" on said winning streak.

Also, like it or not, many people on this board know hockey well enough to see and correctly analyze on-ice strategies, whether or not they've actually played it. I've played my whole life, but just because someone hasn't doesn't make their opinion invalid. We have a community of some of the most invested, intelligent hockey fans on this board- no need to slam it.

 

[CBJx614]

According to who? A bunch of people on an online message board that, IMO, probably nearly 50% have never put on ice skates since childhood?

This coach who "isn't a fit" also just coached this team to the franchises best year LAST YEAR. While being a "top 5" team league-wide all year and also tying A LEAGUE ALL-TIME WINS IN A ROW RECORD.

It's a coach who before he came to Columbus wasn't very young player friendly and when he was brought in, the team was a much more "grind it out physically" style of team.

Torts might be able to adapt, he just admitted that he completely messed up with Wennberg on the PP trying to force him to play on the boards when he's much more comfortable around the net dishing pucks around.


So while I voted fire Torts, I still have some hope. But I still think if anyone is getting fired, he will be among the first, especially before any of the FO goes.

 

[thebus88]

BUT WHY ARE WE TALKING ABOUT FIRING A COACH THAT WILL GO TO THE PLAYOFFS 2 OUT OF THE 2 YEARS HE WAS HERE???

Same thing can be said for a "front office" that has built a team that CAN compete with ANY other team in the league over a 7 game span...

Oh that's right, because the intelligent minds here don't "like" or "believe" in this team.

This is BY FAR the best team the CBJ has ever had....and the most positive thing you can get from 75% of the people here is..."some hope".

 

[CBJWerenski8]

BUT WHY ARE WE TALKING ABOUT FIRING A COACH THAT WILL GO TO THE PLAYOFFS 2 OUT OF THE 2 YEARS HE WAS HERE???

Same thing can be said for a "front office" that has built a team that CAN compete with ANY other team in the league over a 7 game span...

Oh that's right, because the intelligent minds here don't "like" or "believe" in this team.

This is BY FAR the best team the CBJ has ever had....and the most positive thing you can get from 75% of the people here is..."some hope".

If this is "by far" the best team we've ever had, and we're in a fight for our playoff lives as the 2nd WILD CARD team for the right to play/get smacked against Tampa/Boston/Toronto/Pittsburgh/Washington/Philly, doesn't that say enough?

 

[Hello Johnny]

Not my job.

Had a feeling you were going to pull this, but anyway, off we go!

Team President................... Someone who has a history of demonstrated success leading an organization. Would also have to be media savvy and have strong sales ability. I don't necessarily limit such a person to having a hockey background though that would be desirable.

Surprise! You just described John Davidson. Here's a piece that may enlighten you:
Blues part ways with team president John Davidson

Davidson was hired by the previous ownership group, led by Dave Checketts, on June 30, 2006, to revitalize a franchise that had seemingly become disconnected with its fan base. The Blues were fresh off a last place finish in the NHL (21-46-15) coming out of a lockout year in 2005, and Davidson instantly became the face of the Blues' franchise.

Davidson, fresh from his television analyst job with Madison Square Garden, was faced with a tall task when he first came to St. Louis.
Seven years later, the Blues were among the league's best a season ago by building from within, and fans began to come back.
"His savvy, his connections, his ability to connect with people is remarkable," Blues captain David Backes said. "He'll still have that wherever he goes or whatever endeavor he finds next. It'll be big shoes to fill for whoever tries to jump in them. The position that we're in now compared to when he got here the year before me and since I've been here, it's been phenomenal."

The team went from 30th in the NHL in Davidson's first season to finishing with the second-most points in the league last season (109) before bowing out in the second round of the playoffs to eventual champion Los Angeles. During his tenure, the Blues made two postseason appearances (2009, 2012), won the 2011-12 Central Division championship, and experienced a revival in the community that saw their average attendance rise from 12,520 (30th) in 2006-07 to 18,809 (9th) in 2011-12.

I lived in St. Louis for some of this period of time, and can attest that his face was all over commercials with a tagline of "Come Grow With Us" and fans responded very well. The Jackets also happened to hire him in a similar spot the Blues were in when they hired him. Both clubs had finished dead last in the league the year before and had absolutely no direction or mission statement. Funny, "Come Grow With Us" is reminiscent of the "Brick by Brick" mantra that someone came up with...

JD was fired from STL and to my knowledge had no record of successfully leading an organization anywhere. Would not be interested in a hockey "name" whose resume was as weak as Davidson's.

From the source above:

Davidson, 59, and the team agreed to a buyout of his contract, which has three years and approximately $6 million remaining on it. Terms were not disclosed Friday.
"We would like to thank JD for his commitment and dedication to the Blues organization over the past six seasons," team Chairman Tom Stillman said. "He has been instrumental in revitalizing the Blues franchise and has built a strong foundation for our organization, which will ensure the club's success well into the future."

Still, the Blues have been forced to reduce costs after reportedly losing $20 million a season ago. Stillman, who led a group in purchasing the team from Checketts this past summer, had to make concessions.
"There's no animosity at all," Davidson said. "When you see new ownership purchasing pro sports clubs, there's always going to be change. Tom and I have had a number of discussions. It took a while, but we found some common ground with our discussions ... we chatted about expenses and contracts and we just came to a conclusion that my contract would be a burden on the club."

When ownership comes in, they're going to look for every cent they can save. JD had already done his job. He had brought the fans back, gave the team an identity and a winning culture, and hired Doug Armstrong, whom was awarded GM of the Year in '11-12. The new owners didn't need him anymore, so they bought him out. But sure, he was fired, whatever you say.

Your checklist:
Demonstrated success leading an organization – check
Media savvy and strong sales ability – check
Hockey background – check

GM................Would be comfortable with someone with previous GM experienced or an Assistant GM who came from a successful organization. Definitely opposed to a former player who hasn't learned the ropes by serving a substantial apprenticeship. An Yzerman backgroung would be fine. An assistant GM who might be low profile would be OK as well. Someone who had served under Poile, Lamoriello, Yzerman or a Cheveldayoff-type would be probably qualified to assume a GMs role. Jarmo's background was fine. He's just no great shakes who could probably be improved upon without too much difficulty.

What novel ideas. Surely, as you suggest, this could be improved upon without difficulty. Who would hire idiots like Marc Bergevin, Peter Chiarelli, Garth Snow, or Pierre Dorion? Oh wait. Those guys are all puppets for ownership that doesn't have a f***ing clue, much like our owner would be without a competent POHO. Thankfully we've got one who makes these decisions for our ownership but doesn't overload himself by also being the GM.

PS – there are quite a few more numbskulls in the GM ranks that I could name here, but those guys also have a POHO above them who are incompetent

Coach.........I really like the AHL coach model. Someone who has experienced success at that level and even lower levels (ECHL). Guys like Quenville don't interest me. Guys like Cooper, Gallant and Laviolette would be no brainers, but they're not available. Cassidy from Boston *might* be interesting and from what I can find, his contract expires after this season. A sharp young assistant NHL coach who has learned the ropes would be fine as well. Just no ex players who are where they are because of their playing days. Not a big fan of the juniors or college coach to NHL model, but once again, I am not familiar with who is who so there might be a whole lot of talented coaches who are from those backgrounds who might fit the bill. Definitely not Shaw or Larsen, I might add. I also lean toward candidates who have an NHL playing background or at least a lengthy minor league playing resume.

Nothing really to argue here. I think we're pretty much in agreement. I will point out, though, that Brad Larsen had some success in the minors before being promoted to assistant coach here, and I personally think he deserves a shot.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Had a feeling you were going to pull this, but anyway, off we go!


Surprise! You just described John Davidson. Here's a piece that may enlighten you:
Blues part ways with team president John Davidson




I lived in St. Louis for some of this period of time, and can attest that his face was all over commercials with a tagline of "Come Grow With Us" and fans responded very well. The Jackets also happened to hire him in a similar spot the Blues were in when they hired him. Both clubs had finished dead last in the league the year before and had absolutely no direction or mission statement. Funny, "Come Grow With Us" is reminiscent of the "Brick by Brick" mantra that someone came up with...


From the source above:


When ownership comes in, they're going to look for every cent they can save. JD had already done his job. He had brought the fans back, gave the team an identity and a winning culture, and hired Doug Armstrong, whom was awarded GM of the Year in '11-12. The new owners didn't need him anymore, so they bought him out. But sure, he was fired, whatever you say.

Your checklist:
Demonstrated success leading an organization – check
Media savvy and strong sales ability – check
Hockey background – check


What novel ideas. Surely, as you suggest, this could be improved upon without difficulty. Who would hire idiots like Marc Bergevin, Peter Chiarelli, Garth Snow, or Pierre Dorion? Oh wait. Those guys are all puppets for ownership that doesn't have a ****ing clue, much like our owner would be without a competent POHO. Thankfully we've got one who makes these decisions for our ownership but doesn't overload himself by also being the GM.

PS – there are quite a few more numbskulls in the GM ranks that I could name here, but those guys also have a POHO above them who are incompetent


Nothing really to argue here. I think we're pretty much in agreement. I will point out, though, that Brad Larsen had some success in the minors before being promoted to assistant coach here, and I personally think he deserves a shot.

Shaw was a very mediocre coach in Cincinnati. Bland and uninspiring is how I'd describe him. If he's your choice...........He's mid 50s and has been an assistant for 15 years. He's not a head coach for a reason or two or six. Given how crappy our PK has been, he's certainly not the Xs and Os guy he's made out to be. Terrible choice.

Nice smart a$$ response to the GM stuff. Comparing Jarmo to the bottom of the barrel is a sorry basis for his continued employment.

Davidson did so well and brought back so many fans that he was fired because he was making $2 million. Gotcha. He failed on the business side. Obviously. They won two playoff series during his tenure. Stop the presses. He failed on the on ice side as well. In over a decade (probably 12-13 years) as a Team President, he's won 2 playoff series. In all probability, no team he has managed has ever turned a profit. Even for a year. That is pitiful.

 

[Hello Johnny]

Shaw was a very mediocre coach in Cincinnati. Bland and uninspiring is how I'd describe him. If he's your choice...........He's mid 50s and has been an assistant for 15 years. He's not a head coach for a reason or two or six. Given how crappy our PK has been, he's certainly not the Xs and Os guy he's made out to be. Terrible choice.

I said Larsen, but cool info!

Nice smart a$$ response to the GM stuff. Comparing Jarmo to the bottom of the barrel is a sorry basis for his continued employment.

The point is that competence is not an easy thing to find for a front office at the NHL level, even though you seem to think it's a walk in the park. There's half the league's GM's that I didn't mention, so there's more room in the barrel.

Davidson did so well and brought back so many fans that he was fired because he was making $2 million. Gotcha. He failed on the business side. Obviously. They won two playoff series during his tenure. Stop the presses. He failed on the on ice side as well. In over a decade (probably 12-13 years) as a Team President, he's won 2 playoff series. In all probability, no team he has managed has ever turned a profit. Even for a year. That is pitiful.

I know it's hard to swallow such a massive pwn job, so I forgive this bit.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

I said Larsen, but cool info!


The point is that competence is not an easy thing to find for a front office at the NHL level, even though you seem to think it's a walk in the park. There's half the league's GM's that I didn't mention, so there's more room in the barrel.


I know it's hard to swallow such a massive pwn job, so I forgive this bit.

Larsen/Shaw whatever...OOPS

I get you. These guys are not horrible. I just think that they're mediocre. I think it's time for a change. I'm in a distinct minority with the exception of Torts. Interestingly enough, I like the guy. I was driving home from the game last night and listened to his presser. He's a breath of fresh air compared to the canned crappola which most coaches deliver.

Hopefully I'm wrong on my assessment. It will be the second time I've ever been in my life. I just can't remember the first

 

[Maylo]

In over a decade (probably 12-13 years) as a Team President, he's won 2 playoff series.

One.