Speculation: Poll: Who would you Fire, if anyone

Who needs to go


  • Total voters
    37
  • Poll closed .

Double-Shift Lasse

Just post better
Dec 22, 2004
33,355
14,030
Exurban Cbus
Problem is, it wasn't working last year either! After PP was exposed and streak ended they went for 13-11-1 in January+February. Then in March Bob went into a god mode, he had 4 SO and 3 games with 1 goal allowed and they had 10-3-0. Then they dropped 7 in a row.

So the team was really this bad last year? Let's allow that for a moment.

You say "after the streak." So what happened during it to make things better? What was the PP doing that got "figured out"? And why was it never able to regain its previous level of success?

Also, maybe off the topic, but why are you only quoting the parts of my post where I reference Artmi Panarin?
 
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MFRONE

Registered User
Feb 3, 2005
12,946
1,564
Columbus, Ohio
How can it be anybody but Jarmo? What has he done that even warrants him keeping his job?

He's given out horrible contracts to Dubinsky, Foligno and Atkinson (add JJ to the list if he's stupid enough to sign him) for no reason. His 2 big trades with Chicago only happened because the Blackhawks had serious cap issues, Jones for Johansen was decent but both players wanted out of their teams so it was an easy move to make. He has failed to provide any type of depth for the forwards and continues to ignore a glaring need for a veteran backup goaltender.

Draft wise, he could easily be fired for screwing up 2013 by getting nothing out of 2 of 3 1st rounders (jury is still out on Wennberg). He got lucky by moving up to get PLD but he still probably could have snagged him a few picks lower. Plus, it's very telling when our best goalie and defense products won't even come over to NA to compete for spots on the NHL roster.

Torts can only do so much with this roster, it's not his fault that he barely has enough NHL quality forwards to roll out 3 lines.

The parts and pieces were there to make a huge move for a top 6 forward this past offseason and instead Jarmo decided that 3 AHLers was a better option and he ruined any bargaining chip he had. This is a completely flawed roster and one man is responsible for it.
 
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Maylo

It never happened.
May 20, 2017
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So the team was really this bad last year? Let's allow that for a moment.

You say "after the streak." So what happened during it to make things better? What was the PP doing that got "figured out"? And why was it never able to regain its previous level of success?
This is what JK paid for, to figure out those questions and find answers to them. But i think this coach already answered one of them? "we don't coach offence!"

Q: Are you going to try not to touch the core group of players. Is Boone Jenner still part of that group?
A: Yes, he’s an alternate captain for us. … We’re happy with our core players as far as where they are in their career and what their projection is. We’ve talked about it many times this year: You’ve got to play to your level, and some of our guys have been below it. I still think they are going to get there. The biggest remedy for our team is to start playing on the level we should.

If he doesn't know why should i?


Also, maybe off the topic, but why are you only quoting the parts of my post where I reference Artmi Panarin?

I guess the tone of your post is just rubbing me off wrong way? :) "Our best player maybe is the problem we are so bad this year. "
Hawks fans thought he was the problem they sucked in PO, looks like they were on point right? :)
 

Double-Shift Lasse

Just post better
Dec 22, 2004
33,355
14,030
Exurban Cbus
If he doesn't know why should i?

Yeah those are big questions and I can opine but I don’t really know and I don’t really expect anyone else to know - but those seem to be the questions so I asked them anyway.

Your reply suggests both Jarmo and Tortorella have failed to answer questions their position would indicate they should be able to. So they should both be fired?

I guess the tone of your post is just rubbing me off wrong way? :) "Our best player maybe is the problem we are so bad this year. "
Hawks fans thought he was the problem they sucked in PO, looks like they were on point right? :)

I admit that I focused on Panarin as a way to get at something I think I’m seeing, which is that how much better he is than the rest of the roster and reconcile that with how adding such a good player has yielded worse results.
 
Nov 13, 2006
11,520
1,400
Ohio
I need clarification before I can answer this question - although right now I'm on board for the Amalric-ian "Kill (Fire) em all and let God sort em out."

The team was better last year. Most of the season, even when it wasn't as successful, the players looked like they understood what they were doing and played in concert.

Offseason Brandon Saad is moved for Artemi Panarin.

This year the team looks totally out of sorts. But Panarin, supremely skilled, seems to be the only piece on offense that's working.

Conclusion, Panarin is great and rest of team sucks, must get rid of as much of rest of team as possible and remake team in Panarin's image.

Can someone explain this to me? If you've been paying attention, I'm pretty open minded, or at least willing to be convinced. I'll admit that the notion that Panarin being great shakes doesn't do it for me in this on-the-road-to-being-wasted season. But if we can allow for a moment that the above narrative is true, then why has that become the case? Why is a group of guys who played so well together last year now such a hot mess?

I don't know the answer to your question. Here are a few observations:

Last years Jackets team did play well in stretches mainly early to middle of the season. They played with a great deal of intensity. When they played good teams with some high end talent, they could compete and win by out working them. As the season wore on and other teams began to match their intensity level, the lack of high end skill began to get exposed and their record slipped a bit.

Then came the playoffs and from my perspective they outworked the Pens by a little but the lack of skill made it difficult to convert their dangerous chances. When the Pens got a dangerous chance they were more likely to convert it and thus won the series pretty handily, yet 4 out of 5 games I thought the Jackets outworked them. We wanted to blame goaltending, but it looked to me like the Penguins shooting ability was just on another level. This was borne out by the save% of the other goalies they played against in last season's playoffs.

This season it seems a few things have happened:

They have not regularly out worked the competition.

They seem to have a lot more trouble with zone entries than last year, especially on the power play.

I don't know if it's skill level but just last night and on many nights when I compare offensive puck movement the Flyers seem to move the puck quickly and crisply in the offensive zone until they get a good crease and attack while two guys crashed the net looking for rebounds. The Jackets seemed to either cycle the puck on the boards or try skating the puck into the goal mouth through the opposing defense and then attempt a pretty well defended shot.
I've noticed this in a number of games this year, especially ones against Toronto, Tampa Bay, Boston and of course the last Pens game.

I just don't see the guns to compete with Stamkos, Tavares, Kane, Matthews, Laine, Giroux, Voracek, Kessel, Malkin, Tarasenko etc. much less Crosby, Ovechkin and McDavid.

Best case I see them like the Blues teams of a few years ago built around Perron, Oshie, Backes, Steen, Bouwmeester, Shattenkirk and Pietrangelo : sound defense, a heavy team with some decent players and little high end offensive talent.
 
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Nov 13, 2006
11,520
1,400
Ohio
How can it be anybody but Jarmo? What has he done that even warrants him keeping his job?

He's given out horrible contracts to Dubinsky, Foligno and Atkinson (add JJ to the list if he's stupid enough to sign him) for no reason. His 2 big trades with Chicago only happened because the Blackhawks had serious cap issues, Jones for Johansen was decent but both players wanted out of their teams so it was an easy move to make. He has failed to provide any type of depth for the forwards and continues to ignore a glaring need for a veteran backup goaltender.

Draft wise, he could easily be fired for screwing up 2013 by getting nothing out of 2 of 3 1st rounders (jury is still out on Wennberg). He got lucky by moving up to get PLD but he still probably could have snagged him a few picks lower. Plus, it's very telling when our best goalie and defense products won't even come over to NA to compete for spots on the NHL roster.

Torts can only do so much with this roster, it's not his fault that he barely has enough NHL quality forwards to roll out 3 lines.

The parts and pieces were there to make a huge move for a top 6 forward this past offseason and instead Jarmo decided that 3 AHLers was a better option and he ruined any bargaining chip he had. This is a completely flawed roster and one man is responsible for it.

I agree that the Jackets screwed up with Rychel. Dano was fine his year in Columbus and was part of a successful deal to bring Saad in. That's a win. The jury is not out on whether Wennberg is a success or failure. He was a good pick. When you draft a guy mid-first round and he becomes a top 6 center and puts up over 50 points it's a good pick.
 
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CBJx614

Registered User
May 25, 2012
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Wait so people actually believe Jarmo is going to fix this team at the deadline? Because I completely expect it to be quiet for us until the off-season.
 
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Maylo

It never happened.
May 20, 2017
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Your reply suggests both Jarmo and Tortorella have failed to answer questions their position would indicate they should be able to. So they should both be fired?
Yeas, i think Torts style of hockey is dead, and he didn't adapt despite all his "sweet words". Coach that admits that he doesn't give a shit about x's and o's on the record? Done.
With JK i understand that this is his first time job as a GM, but usually you're hired on such with trial period, and i never heard of it being as long as 5 years. All of those guys contracts ends after next season. Not a single series win for 6 years or even PO appereance this season and next? Bye.
 
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Cyclones Rock

Registered User
Jun 12, 2008
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Why is a group of guys who played so well together last year now such a hot mess?

Regarding team's performance this season and some reasons why it's down:

1) I think Jarmo flat out missed the transition of the NHL to a speed game. He made no adjustments to a structural change. So last year's team, even with similar performances, was likely to not perform as well as this season due to the change toward speed.

2) Dubinsky and Jenner along with, to lesser degrees, JJ and Savard, are too slow to play as effectively as they did.

3) Dubinsky, Jenner and Foligno declined rapidly at the same time. Signing players into their 30s has risk. Jarmo came up snake eyes on the 2 long term contracts in this group.

4) Wennberg's and Atkinson's lackluster play. Their productivity is way off from last season. If they're both "take the money and relax" guys, this team is skirooed.

5) JJ and Savard had career statistical seasons Savard was +33 (+2 had been his previous career high). His PDO was 103 which was fueled by a 93.8% save percentage while he was on the ice. JJ was +23 (had never been a plus player in his 12 year pro career) and his 102 PDO was dirven by a 93.3 on ice shooting percentage.

6) Bob is playing well-someone posted a recent stat that said he was +22 in some goalie category (worth 22 goals to the team) which was best in the league-but he's probably not quite as good as last year. Can't expect Vezina performance every year.

7) Loss of Hartnell (10 goals so far) for no reason. Maybe he was a larger piece of the leadership group than many imagined. I don't know. The CBJ will have a $3 million cap hit against them next season as a result of this bad buyout and have lost a player who is still productive on a much better team.

8) Zerenski's play since the first 20-30 games has not been as good as last season. Sophomore slump? Injury? In any case, he's not playing as well.

9) Torts stubborn use of slow, ineffective veterans (read Dubinsky, Jenner and Foligno) over youth-specifically Bjorkstrand.

10) The PP was "found out" by others midway through last season and the coaching staff has not made appropriate adjustments. Whatever they are-their job; not mine.

11) 27th in PK. Coaching issue again. Whether it's personnel or scheme, that's up to the coaches to figure out.

12) The injuries to Ryan Murray. He's the best defenseman in the NHL. He's worth over 1.3 goals per game. All the previous 11 reasons are superfluous.
 
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CBJx614

Registered User
May 25, 2012
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Also, there's a reason Torts is only getting 1 year extensions. It's a lot easier to drop a coach than a GM, it's just the way it is. Torts first. If we miss the playoffs next season than Jarmo goes.
 
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blahblah

Registered User
Nov 24, 2005
21,327
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I don't think I'm going to vote on this one. If I was the majority owner, I would probably have a heart-to-heart with JD. I would ask him to justify JK and JT's jobs.
 
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Cyclones Rock

Registered User
Jun 12, 2008
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Yeas, i think Torts style of hockey is dead, and he didn't adapt despite all his "sweet words". Coach that admits that he doesn't give a **** about x's and o's on the record? Done.
With JK i understand that this is his first time job as a GM, but usually you're hired on such with trial period, and i never heard of it being as long as 5 years. All of those guys contracts ends after next season. Not a single series win for 6 years or even PO appereance this season and next? Bye.

Are you certain of this? If so, ownership has no reason to retain these guys.
 

Maylo

It never happened.
May 20, 2017
4,646
3,909
I just don't see the guns to compete with Stamkos, Tavares, Kane, Matthews, Laine, Giroux, Voracek, Kessel, Malkin, Tarasenko etc. much less Crosby, Ovechkin and McDavid.
IDK, Vegas shows it's possible to compete without stars. Maybe they have Billy Bean and Peter Brand behind their bench?
 

Cyclones Rock

Registered User
Jun 12, 2008
10,484
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JD is the elephant in the room. He needs to go.

He never learned an organization from the ground up. He was a talking head for several decades and moved straight into a team presidency.

Steve Yzerman was an assistant GM for 3 years in a good organization. He paid his dues. Different positions, but the concept is the same.

JD has hired a former crony to be a GM. Jarmo's roster is not near championship quality. He allowed for the hire of a coach whose time is passed. Team revenues are probably still near the bottom of the league.

Where has JD been successful? Does anyone really want him making the decisions which will determine this organiztion's path for the better part of the next decade? If so, why?
 

hardkorejackets

Registered User
Nov 6, 2013
768
187
Coldwater, OH
Wait so people actually believe Jarmo is going to fix this team at the deadline? Because I completely expect it to be quiet for us until the off-season.

I don't think so. I don't anticipate a big move that helps us for this year. If anything, I expect a move during the off-season, NHL entry draft..
I haven't made up my mind on Jarmo... But, when is the best time to let a GM go in the NHL?
 

Cyclones Rock

Registered User
Jun 12, 2008
10,484
6,370
I don't think so. I don't anticipate a big move that helps us for this year. If anything, I expect a move during the off-season, NHL entry draft..
I haven't made up my mind on Jarmo... But, when is the best time to let a GM go in the NHL?
Before the draft/free agent signing start dates for certain.

If the CBJ decide to go another direction, they ought to move a few days after the season ends.
 

mikeyp24

Registered User
Jun 28, 2014
5,959
1,231
Fire no one... It's the youngest team in the league and we had an injury problem most of the year. No reason to grab torches and cry over spilt milk. Any move would be just to make a move and have no real effect. Firing a coach happens way too often when it's not their fault and getting rid of JD or GMJK would set our team back years maybe kill our entire forward progress. Why get rid of our best coaches and management we ever had when we are putting out the youngest team and had so many injury issues. That is neither on the front office or coaching. When a tornado destroys your neighborhood do you blame the weatherman or the tornado?
 
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Cyclones Rock

Registered User
Jun 12, 2008
10,484
6,370
Fire no one... It's the youngest team in the league and we had an injury problem most of the year. No reason to grab torches and cry over spilt milk. Any move would be just to make a move and have no real effect. Firing a coach happens way too often when it's not their fault and getting rid of JD or GMJK would set our team back years maybe kill our entire forward progress. Why get rid of our best coaches and management we ever had when we are putting out the youngest team and had so many injury issues. That is neither on the front office or coaching. When a tornado destroys your neighborhood do you blame the weatherman or the tornado?


The CBJ aren't in the top 5 for man games lost to injury this season. It's a lame excuse.

How would firing a team president and GM who have 3 playoff wins set back this franchise for years?

Torts has presided over the worst PP while having Panarin, Z and Jones at his disposal. His PK is the 4th worst.

This year is a result of poor coaching and team composition not bad luck.
 
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mikeyp24

Registered User
Jun 28, 2014
5,959
1,231
The CBJ aren't in the top 5 for man games lost to injury this season. It's a lame excuse.

How would firing a team president and GM who have 3 playoff wins set back this franchise for years?

Torts has presided over the worst PP while having Panarin, Z and Jones at his disposal. His PK is the 4th worst.

This year is a result of poor coaching and team composition not bad luck.
What matters most who is lost not how many player games are lost. If the McDavid is out 40 games and 3 4th liners are out a combined 60 games what matters more?

Also whose fault is it when we have those guys who are supposed to be skilled and can't finish? Also the PP hasn't been ran by Torts it's Larson fire him.

And who do you think got us those players? Those top guys are 100% all GMJK. He held off on trading a shit ton to move up for Hanifan, got Panarin on the extreme cheap, and got Jones who was perfect for us.
 

JacketFanInFL

Brick by Brick
Mar 27, 2006
6,590
2,002
Central FL
Wouldn’t fire anybody. Last year’s team wildly overachieved. The front office has made a commitment to doing it the right way and building through the draft. Firing a coach, Gm, or President doesn’t change a roster full of grinders.
 

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