Poll: Should DA be fired?

[Ted Hoffman]

He managed to control our cap situation very well with tying up our key FAs to reasonable deals.

I have to stop you here. We have no cap space this season, we had little to no cap space last season, and we had little to no cap space the season prior. It's been that way since about '14-15. He's had the team so strung against the cap, we didn't have room to go make late-season moves to improve the team.

Our bad contracts were all under 5 million per year (So no Lucic types) and he was able to move them for solid returns (Schenn and ROR).

The Schenn deal required unloading a 1st to get rid of Lehtera's contract because it was such a brutally bad contract, and it was a gross unforced error by DA handed out based on about 30 games of play. That's terrible asset management, even if we got Schenn [whose defensive play is starting to go back to what it was in Philadelphia, which is why they were totally fine moving him in the first place]. ROR cost us "only" the 1st + TT because we agreed to pay the signing bonus; if Buffalo's got to pay that, the price goes dramatically higher. But you mention the key point in a sentence right after this: Not everyone [sic] of his trades have worked out, but the majority have worked in our favor. And yet, the team continues to get worse over time.

Plus, when you say "our bad contracts were all under $5 million" I think there's a bunch of people who want to remind you of Steen's current contract.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

You do realize I said the playoffs right? You know that thing that Perron has never shown up for in his career and got healthy scratched during the SCF...

I remember the series against Vancouver the only guys that showed up were Perron and Andy McDonald. Its not much, but it was noticeable in that short disappointing series.

 

[BlueDream]

I remember the series against Vancouver the only guys that showed up were Perron and Andy McDonald. Its not much, but it was noticeable in that short disappointing series.

I don’t really think a series 10 years ago is too relevant.

Perron has been very disappointing overall in the playoffs in his career.

 

[Reality Czech]

I'm so down on the team right now, that I'm in favor of firing everyone. Trade the whole team and go 100% rebuild. Who cares. What does it matter?

I'd rather watch a bunch of bright eyed kids lose than a bunch of uninspired veterans lose. Who cares.

It's not like anything good will ever happen to the team or it's fans. So why does any of it matter.

The Blues were put here to be a stepping stone for the good teams of the league. We're the Washington generals of the NHL. We're like the 14th guy Arnold Swartzenegger kills in the big final battle. If we're lucky we'll at least get a good one liner as he kills us. But more than likely we're the 3rd thug on the left who dies when he shoots a gas canister.

We don't matter. We've never mattered and we never will. The management doesn't care. The players don't care. The league doesn't care. Why should we care?

Fair enough, maybe we should leave the important decisions to someone who actually does care. Take a break, bud. It's just a game.

Do people honestly expect them to fire DA right now? If it happens, it will be after the season but I don't see what the good in firing him now would do, other than satisfy some depressed fans who have gone off the deep end. Does firing a GM fire up a team? Not really seeing the connection.

But yeah, screw it....fire everyone! Never mind the fact that most fans were thrilled with Army's moves the last couple seasons. Now that they roster isn't living up to expectations everyone acts like they knew Army was a bad GM all along. Blues fans must be the most miserable bunch in the whole NHL.

 

[KingBran]

Loved ROR, Stastny and Schenn. Hated the Oshie, Miller (Halak), Elliott, everything Sobotka, and letting Hutts walk.

Hes been OK. Not great, not terrible. Very middle of the road.

 

[KingBran]

I don’t really think a series 10 years ago is too relevant.

Perron has been very disappointing overall in the playoffs in his career.

"Very" disappointing?

08-09, 2 points 4 games
11-12, 5 points 9 games
12-13, 2 points 6 games
14-15, 1 point 5 games
15-16, 3 points 6 games (ANA)
16-17, 1 point 11 games
17-18, 9 points 15 games (VGK)

A couple 'meh' times in the playoffs but I would not say

"Perron has been very disappointing overall in the playoffs in his career"

At all.

 

[Frenzy31]

I have to stop you here. We have no cap space this season, we had little to no cap space last season, and we had little to no cap space the season prior. It's been that way since about '14-15. He's had the team so strung against the cap, we didn't have room to go make late-season moves to improve the team.

He may have had the team up against the cap, but find the bad contacts. You can make an argument that some were overpaid, but $250 - 500k isn't bad at all. Look at other teams.... This team, up to last year was a contender though we didn't win much. At least the roster was solid

The Schenn deal required unloading a 1st to get rid of Lehtera's contract because it was such a brutally bad contract, and it was a gross unforced error by DA handed out based on about 30 games of play. That's terrible asset management, even if we got Schenn [whose defensive play is starting to go back to what it was in Philadelphia, which is why they were totally fine moving him in the first place]. ROR cost us "only" the 1st + TT because we agreed to pay the signing bonus; if Buffalo's got to pay that, the price goes dramatically higher. But you mention the key point in a sentence right after this: Not everyone [sic] of his trades have worked out, but the majority have worked in our favor. And yet, the team continues to get worse over time.

That is just not true and you know it - It almost to a point of a flat out lie. We didn't pay a first to get rid of Lehtera because Schenn is worth a shit load more then 1 single first, defensive play aside.

ROR's Bonus - THAT IS HIS PAYCHECK FOR THE ENTIRE SEASON. I think he gets paid $1,000,000 per year plus the bonus - which covers this season. All we did was pay him up front.....

Plus, when you say "our bad contracts were all under $5 million" I think there's a bunch of people who want to remind you of Steen's current contract.

Steen or Lucic - which would you rather have?

 

[Majorityof1]

"Very" disappointing?

08-09, 2 points 4 games
11-12, 5 points 9 games
12-13, 2 points 6 games
14-15, 1 point 5 games
15-16, 3 points 6 games (ANA)
16-17, 1 point 11 games
17-18, 9 points 15 games (VGK)

A couple 'meh' times in the playoffs but I would not say

"Perron has been very disappointing overall in the playoffs in his career"

At all.

Compared to his regular season #s, his playoff #s are poor. .62 P/G career regular season v .40 P/G in playoffs. That is only 2/3rds of his usual production. He has primarily secondary assists in the playoffs. 57% of his playoff pts are 2nd As vs 21% in the regular season. Primary P/G he is .48 in the regular season v. .18 in playoffs. Obviously, his goal-scoring drops considerably, .25 G/g v. .07 in playoffs. His best playoffs point-wise was last year and he ended up a healthy scratch, due to poor performance and penalties. So whether you think the "very" tag applies or not, I do think it is fair to say Perron has been disappointing in the playoffs relative to regular season expectations. To what degree he has been disappointing is semantics.

 

[BadgersandBlues]

Armstrong should absolutely be fired. I didn't like that we extended him. Here are some quick hitters as to why:

• He has mis-identified our greatest issues far too often. Why trade for Miller when Elliott was showing to be a solid, reliable goaltender? Especially when we had struggled to score in the previous year's playoffs and scorers (Vanek, etc) were going for bargain prices. Why continually force Allen over Elliott? Why not go find another top 6 Center until Stastny falls into our lap in UFA? We've now paid 3 First round picks and a "top" prospect, plus depth players for two top 6 centers. (One of which was a converted RW that worked out) Why didn't we do that years ago when we still had Oshie/Backes and our team was consistently RIGHT THERE with the LA's and Chicago's of our Conference?
• Terrible roster construction/no roster vision - Last year we started with 4 top 6 players. We had two right wingers total on the roster (Tarasenko and Jaskin) as well as zero RHS in the top 6. Fast forward to this year. We now have enough top 6 players, and one of them is even right handed! However, we still have little depth on the right side outside of Tarasenko. I know some of our players "can play" the right side, but Perron, Steen, Fabbri, etc are all much more productive on the left side. Our RW depth is Tarasenko and no one else if we're taking about optimizing individual spots. What's our identity? We used to be big, heavy, hard to play against etc. The league has moved away from that as a sustainable model, showing that skill, speed, and high hockey IQ are the traits most in demand now, yet he hasn't done much of anything to go that route. Our players are more skilled, but not fast and we don't play fast. It's super frustrating.
• He's handed out a lot of contracts over the last few years that we've had to pay a premium to get rid of. Lehtera, Sobotka, Berglund, and now probably Allen. He's made poor decisions prior to that (Resigning Stewart to a 1 year deal after he lead our team in goals the year before, signing Shattenkirk to a poor contract when he had a comp from Voynov sitting right in front of him) You might be questioning the Stewart contract, b/c it worked out for us in the long run, but if you see a guy lead your team in goals and you're still not sure about him, why not sell high? It's poor decision making.
• He's had two separate cores to work with. He inherited a good young team that was up and coming. Maybe not the most high end skill, but man a lot of solid depth. That core is now gone outside of Steen/AP. Army built our current core and it's clearly not working for whatever reason. I don't think a GM should get a chance at a third core group of players.
• The head-coach in waiting idea was his baby and it's been a spectacular mess. Yeo was never the right guy. Ever. I said it when he got hired that he was Hitch 2.0, without the credibility of, "I've won a Cup so you're going to listen to me," but with a lot of the same flaws (Sluggish transition, inability to make adjustments, etc) and now some of our best players (Parayko, Tarasenko) have clearly regressed compared to Hitch. He should have either let Hitch go after the WCF run and brought in a true HC, or he should have let Hitch just be the guy until he faltered then replaced him.

At the end of the day, we're moving close to a decade with Army in control. It's been all downhill since the WCF run, which also coincided with us transitioning to the "new core" that Army has been in charge of putting together. This core has been a complete disappointment overall, with only a totally unsustainable period of success after we fired Hitch. Army -might- have been a solid GM in the old-school bang and grind NHL, but he looks like he has no clue what to do in the new-age speed, skill, and push pace NHL.

 

[WeWentBlues]

I think he's one of the best GMs we've ever had. I just wish he wasn't so entrenched and stubborn about certain things.

 

[Stealth JD]

I have to stop you here. We have no cap space this season, we had little to no cap space last season, and we had little to no cap space the season prior. It's been that way since about '14-15. He's had the team so strung against the cap, we didn't have room to go make late-season moves to improve the team.


The Schenn deal required unloading a 1st to get rid of Lehtera's contract because it was such a brutally bad contract, and it was a gross unforced error by DA handed out based on about 30 games of play. That's terrible asset management, even if we got Schenn [whose defensive play is starting to go back to what it was in Philadelphia, which is why they were totally fine moving him in the first place]. ROR cost us "only" the 1st + TT because we agreed to pay the signing bonus; if Buffalo's got to pay that, the price goes dramatically higher. But you mention the key point in a sentence right after this: Not everyone [sic] of his trades have worked out, but the majority have worked in our favor. And yet, the team continues to get worse over time.

Plus, when you say "our bad contracts were all under $5 million" I think there's a bunch of people who want to remind you of Steen's current contract.

Yeah - it's tough to say he's managed the cap well. It's pretty easy to max out the payroll. Detroit has done it for years and stunk. If the Blues were a playoff-bound team with room to spare - THAT's managing the cap well. Acquiring expensive dudes who leave brown streaks up and down the ice - that doesn't seem like good management.

 

[EurlichBachman]

I don't think he should be fired. I don't think he's nearly as bad as some make him out to be. This is a good roster on paper. Most people here likely thought this would be a team that was going to contend for a top spot in the conference. The team came in with a couple of question marks, Allen and Yeo. Did anyone envision the defense being as bad as its been? This is essentially the same group they have had for the last few years who were always real solid.

He has handed out a couple of bad contracts, but when you look around the league how many GMs havent? Aren't the Blues the only team to have not bought anyone out? They do not have any boat anchor contracts on the books. The Lehtera contract was awful the minute the papers were signed. Allen was a gamble that he would excel, unfortunately he has regressed. Bouwmeester really isn't that bad of a contract when you take into consideration that this is the final year. Steen will likely look rough in a couple seasons. After this season they have quite a bit of cap space to play with.

The criticism of the Blues has always been that they don't have the center depth. Over the last 2 seasons Armstrong has addressed those needs extremely well. Yes they had to give up a 1st to get rid of Lehtera which is less than ideal. He also traded for O'Rielly for peanuts essentially and got a first round pick for Ryan frickin Reaves.

This is probably been the most disappointing/frustrating/annoying/pathetic Blues team I have ever watched. Im only 27, but I remember watching the dark days in 05-06. People wanting to tear it down and start over are overlooking how terrible those years are. Look at a team like Edmonton or Buffalo. Edmonton has had how many 1st overall picks and is still bad. It took Buffalo how long to get to where they are now?

This team isn't as bad as they have been showing, imo. If the defense can start playing like they have in the past and the goaltending can step up a bit there's no reason they can't go on a tear. As it sits right now they have 3 games in hand on Dallas. If they win those 3 games they are only 4 points out of a playoff spot. With how awful they have been this year they still aren't out of it yet somehow.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

Armstrong should absolutely be fired. I didn't like that we extended him. Here are some quick hitters as to why:

• He has mis-identified our greatest issues far too often. Why trade for Miller when Elliott was showing to be a solid, reliable goaltender? Especially when we had struggled to score in the previous year's playoffs and scorers (Vanek, etc) were going for bargain prices. Why continually force Allen over Elliott? Why not go find another top 6 Center until Stastny falls into our lap in UFA? We've now paid 3 First round picks and a "top" prospect, plus depth players for two top 6 centers. (One of which was a converted RW that worked out) Why didn't we do that years ago when we still had Oshie/Backes and our team was consistently RIGHT THERE with the LA's and Chicago's of our Conference?
• Terrible roster construction/no roster vision - Last year we started with 4 top 6 players. We had two right wingers total on the roster (Tarasenko and Jaskin) as well as zero RHS in the top 6. Fast forward to this year. We now have enough top 6 players, and one of them is even right handed! However, we still have little depth on the right side outside of Tarasenko. I know some of our players "can play" the right side, but Perron, Steen, Fabbri, etc are all much more productive on the left side. Our RW depth is Tarasenko and no one else if we're taking about optimizing individual spots. What's our identity? We used to be big, heavy, hard to play against etc. The league has moved away from that as a sustainable model, showing that skill, speed, and high hockey IQ are the traits most in demand now, yet he hasn't done much of anything to go that route. Our players are more skilled, but not fast and we don't play fast. It's super frustrating.
• He's handed out a lot of contracts over the last few years that we've had to pay a premium to get rid of. Lehtera, Sobotka, Berglund, and now probably Allen. He's made poor decisions prior to that (Resigning Stewart to a 1 year deal after he lead our team in goals the year before, signing Shattenkirk to a poor contract when he had a comp from Voynov sitting right in front of him) You might be questioning the Stewart contract, b/c it worked out for us in the long run, but if you see a guy lead your team in goals and you're still not sure about him, why not sell high? It's poor decision making.
• He's had two separate cores to work with. He inherited a good young team that was up and coming. Maybe not the most high end skill, but man a lot of solid depth. That core is now gone outside of Steen/AP. Army built our current core and it's clearly not working for whatever reason. I don't think a GM should get a chance at a third core group of players.
• The head-coach in waiting idea was his baby and it's been a spectacular mess. Yeo was never the right guy. Ever. I said it when he got hired that he was Hitch 2.0, without the credibility of, "I've won a Cup so you're going to listen to me," but with a lot of the same flaws (Sluggish transition, inability to make adjustments, etc) and now some of our best players (Parayko, Tarasenko) have clearly regressed compared to Hitch. He should have either let Hitch go after the WCF run and brought in a true HC, or he should have let Hitch just be the guy until he faltered then replaced him.

At the end of the day, we're moving close to a decade with Army in control. It's been all downhill since the WCF run, which also coincided with us transitioning to the "new core" that Army has been in charge of putting together. This core has been a complete disappointment overall, with only a totally unsustainable period of success after we fired Hitch. Army -might- have been a solid GM in the old-school bang and grind NHL, but he looks like he has no clue what to do in the new-age speed, skill, and push pace NHL.

What did the Blues have to pay to get rid of Berglund and Sobotka? At worst, they were viewed as value neutral in that trade, but the biggest criticism Buffalo got was that they appeared to put TOO MUCH value on those two players, who were arguably close to replacement level. You may have thought they were bad contracts, but he unloaded them very gracefully.

Feeling Armstrong should be replaced is legit, though I'm not so sure personally. But you've constructed an argument that is getting carried away.

It takes two parties to make a contract. Stuff like Stewart's 1y deal seems pretty reasonable to me. Its hard to argue you should fire someone for NOT making a mistake you think he should have made. Anyway, you have to acknowledge the player's part in the negotiations. The Shattenkirk is a perfect example. He determined he needed to trade him, tried, and ultimately got a so-so return (probably pretty fair for a rental guy). Its a shame he didn't get Hall or even Drouin as he could have if Kevin had different feelings about New York.

I agree the roster construction last year was a mess, but I appreciated him not over-paying for a solution that sacrificed youth. I actually feel a bit bad for Yeo since he had a bit of a compromised roster most of his time here.

Honestly, if Allen performed at a top 10 goalie level, Armstrong would be looking pretty good today. I think this team would have avoided the spiral it entered and would have had more time/flexibility to overcome the defensive lapses. Armstrong looks bad on that deal.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

If Turek hadn't imploded, Q hadn't gone soft on a banged up Avs squad in the 2001 WCF, Pronger's knee doesn't blow up on an Yzerman hit, etc., then Larry Pleau looks much smarter than Blues fans give him credit for.

Judge guys on what they actually did, not the what if hypothetical stuff.

 

[Evocable Manager]

Just fire him before he does something stupid and sets the franchise back several years.

We don't need stupid emotional trades out of desperation or the "culture change" trade.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Just curious, can votes be changed? Asking for anyone who starts thinking about flipping that "no" vote at some point.

 

[AjaxManifesto]

Just curious, can votes be changed? Asking for anyone who starts thinking about flipping that "no" vote at some point.

Oh yes....there's a button.

 

[Nederlander]

I don't think Army should be fired, because honestly, we were all excited by the moves he made in the off-season. Yeah, he shouldn't have given Allen a long-term contract or let Hutton walk, but then Schenn and O'Reilly have both been really good players. I think the beginning of the season really took its toll when we lost a number of games in the third period. And honestly, Berube is obviously trying for a physical type play that is just not working for this group, and he seems incapable of doing anything different. All it's doing is insuring more losses and half of our roster on the injured reserve.

 

[Robb_K]

Yeah - it's tough to say he's managed the cap well. It's pretty easy to max out the payroll. Detroit has done it for years and stunk. If the Blues were a playoff-bound team with room to spare - THAT's managing the cap well. Acquiring expensive dudes who leave brown streaks up and down the ice - that doesn't seem like good management.

EXACTLY! Having a consistently winning team over a long period, while usually still having cap space requires having several players on their first contract. That is best accomplished by drafting really well, and not keeping players past their time of effective playing, and teaching/developing players to improve their effectiveness and value (not only your own draftees, but also bargain free agent players (undrafted and other teams' castoffs).

 

[Celtic Note]

I don't think Army should be fired, because honestly, we were all excited by the moves he made in the off-season. Yeah, he shouldn't have given Allen a long-term contract or let Hutton walk, but then Schenn and O'Reilly have both been really good players. I think the beginning of the season really took its toll when we lost a number of games in the third period. And honestly, Berube is obviously trying for a physical type play that is just not working for this group, and he seems incapable of doing anything different. All it's doing is insuring more losses and half of our roster on the injured reserve.

We’re we all excited? I certainly wasn’t excited about Perron, Bozak, Maroon or Johnson. The ROR trade was good.

Armstrong has also hired Yeo, Berube and Van Ryn. Hiring coaches is a huge part of his job, just as finding talent at the goaltending position. He has certainly failed at both of those.

 

[simon IC]

We’re we all excited? I certainly wasn’t excited about Perron, Bozak, Maroon or Johnson. The ROR trade was good.

I was called out for criticizing the Bozak and Perron signings. I'm still meh about Bozak and on the fence about Perron.

 

[Evocable Manager]

I was called out for criticizing the Bozak and Perron signings. I'm still meh about Bozak and on the fence about Perron.

Bozak sucks. Waste of 5M.

Perron has been good but we'll see how long that holds up.

 

[AjaxManifesto]

Move people, call up our best guys from the AHL. Make this season a rebuild year. We are out of other options.

 

[cardinalnation]

Bozak sucks. Waste of 5M.

Perron has been good but we'll see how long that holds up.

 

[cardinalnation]

From a guy with Brayden Schenn as his username. LOL! To me he is the first guy on this team that needs to go. Guys a complete whiner, shows up in about half of the games and doesn't like playing defense in those contests. He's not the goal machine on the PowerPlay that people thought he was either. You have to hit the net to score. Schenn is a okay player but I am starting to see the reasons Philadelphia was willing to give him up for Lehtera and a first.remember all the flyers fans that came here after that trade and said you were going to hate this guy? Just my opinion but I think he is one of the locker room problems. As far as Armstrong goes I would not fire him. It is not his fault this team fails to show up on many nights and is gutless when it comes to standing up for one another. It is his fault that the blues cut loose their glue players though. I think they really miss Ryan Reeves and Brodziak both. Just my opinion but that there is the number one problem on this team.