Points Lost To Stupidity Thread

BrindamoursNose

Registered User
Oct 14, 2008
20,032
14,090
Not going to waste time getting into a back-and-forth here because obviously your mind is made up, but yes, he obviously is the biggest problem right now.

He’s the one choosing to use Mac as his #3 and on the top PK. He had other options, this was his choice. Just like he chose to replace Gudas with an inferior defensemen. He could use Mac on the bottom pair and limit the damage he can do, but he obviously loves the guy. And it’s choices like this that are doing the most damage to this team.

As long as he’s here, we’ll continue to see the same mistakes made and they’ll continue to lose us games, like last night. Every year teams are fighting to make the playoffs by a matter of one or two points... There are no unimportant games. None.

Let's pretend he made all the right choices you believe he should make (which I assume is to replace Mac with Sanheim, or keep Gudas in over Folin all year -- mind you, I don't necessarily disagree with either).

Realistically, what do you believe our potential is? A lot better (than with Hak's goofy roster decisions)?

My point is: I do not believe we would be sniffing real contention even if Hak made every correct decision (which is unheard of -- even Belicheck screws up). This is what stops my blood pressure from rising watching the team -- also I have confidence that Hak's days are numbered (and always have been), so that helps.

Also: I never said a loss is unimportant -- I'm pointing out that we shouldn't end it all because of a loss two games into the season. I know blah blah it's been going on for years...well, Hak's made the playoffs more often than not with a team that was very flawed despite his stupid decision-making. His teams have had moderate success regardless of a loss like this one and I can say that we didn't lose those two playoff series because of Hak, but instead because we were flat-out outplayed by much better talent. Statistically, there's plenty of hope for the playoffs and for the team to change/evolve. Let's wait till the last month of the season before we end it all, aight
 
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Striiker

Former Flyers Fan
Jun 2, 2013
89,442
155,159
Pennsylvania
Let's pretend he made all the right choices you believe he should make (which I assume is to replace Mac with Sanheim, or keep Gudas in over Folin all year -- mind you, I don't necessarily disagree with either).

Realistically, what do you believe our potential is? A lot better (than with Hak's goofy roster decisions)?

My point is: I do not believe we would be sniffing real contention even if Hak made every correct decision (which is unheard of -- even Belicheck screws up). This is what stops my blood pressure from rising watching the team -- also I have confidence that Hak's days are numbered (and always have been), so that helps.
It’s impossible to say because theres a million outside variables that effect where this team ends up. But we know for a fact that these actions hurt the team.

All I want is the best possible lineup to be on the ice. For them to have the best possible chance to win every single game. If we still miss the playoffs, so be it.... I could live with that. But losing games and making winning harder than it has to be is unacceptable.

Would we win the cup without Haks mistakes? Probably not, but that doesn’t mean the mistakes are acceptable. They definitely have the potential to win a series or two, if they aren’t being held back by horrible choices and the overuse of horrible players.
 
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Flyerfan4life

Registered User
Jun 9, 2010
34,591
20,931
Richmond BC, Canada
They lost by 3 goals, & 1 of the 2 goals they received was a gift.

Folin is a wreck & shouldn’t have played over Gudas. But focusing on that one lineup decision, & ignoring how badly Sanheim played & Patrick played at 2C is what frustrates me about this board. Whipping boys get blamed for everything; not a peep about other (favorites) having costly performances.

ummm and Voro first NHl goal wasnt a total gift on a plate ???

come on, shy of that Varly gaff. we got blown out 5-1
 

BrindamoursNose

Registered User
Oct 14, 2008
20,032
14,090
It’s impossible to say because theres a million outside variables that effect where this team ends up. But we know for a fact that these actions hurt the team.

All I want is the best possible lineup to be on the ice. For them to have the best possible chance to win every single game. If we still miss the playoffs, so be it.... I could live with that. But losing games and making winning harder than it has to be is unacceptable.

Would we win the cup without Haks mistakes? Probably not, but that doesn’t mean the mistakes are acceptable. They definitely have the potential to win a series or two, if they aren’t being held back by horrible choices and the overuse of horrible players.

I think your first answer is a cop-out personally (because I could argue that making the opposite decision Hak did would hurt the team more/just as much using this logic), but fine -- no reason to belabor that.

I know that's what you want, but can't there be outside factors in Hak's/a coach's mind that determine their roster moves? Like for me: I can't understand a world where Folin would be perceived as better than Gudas...BUT I acknowledged that there are a few scenarios that could've caused him to play over Gudas that the Flyers do not owe the public necessarily (but I wish they would)...such as Gudas' real health sit, if Folin could be a better matchup against the AVS (due to being out West), or if he wasn't sure about Gudas or Folin yet for last spot.

Again: I think Gudas is for sure the answer, but I can see the logic in the move if it's any of the 3 above I mentioned.

"Best possible lineup" is all relative, I think. Lehtera isn't good, but he's decent at a role no one seems to be good at (PK) other than Giroux/Coots and we don't want to overuse them. McDonald is the vet on the D and has a role on the 3rd pairing (but of course he needs to have his minutes reduced, I'd say) BUT he has a history of logging lots of minutes (even if the result not being great)...I think we can really only trust Provo and Ghost right now, with the rest up in the air. I can see why McD gets more minutes with semi-question marks out there.

I can't wait until McDonald, Lehtera, Weiss, Folin (well, we'll see. Only 1 game), etc. are gone, but for now I don't think they're the real problem preventing us from winning anything. The Flyers have shown they're willing to play kids when they think it's appropriate, so I don't believe there's a lurking bias as many would say...

I have faith in the org. even if we are mediocre and the coach makes dumb decisions -- what gives me solace is that our best possible lineup isn't good enough anyway

for now.

That will change, based on Hextall's build, most likely this offseason. He already started this past offseason by signing JVR and will only add to it as Carter Hart starts, Sanheim hits his stride and perhaps Myers next in line.
 

LegionOfDoom91

Registered User
Jan 25, 2013
81,642
138,647
Philadelphia, PA
This isn't Game 2. It's Game ... wait, I have to open the ****ing calculator ... 248. But you're right, the fact that he is still ****ing up everything is no cause for alarm.

Kumbay****ingya, boys.

giphy.gif

D27B5DC0-2216-4DD8-B619-D315675A8544.jpeg
 

Striiker

Former Flyers Fan
Jun 2, 2013
89,442
155,159
Pennsylvania
I think your first answer is a cop-out personally (because I could argue that making the opposite decision Hak did would hurt the team more/just as much using this logic), but fine -- no reason to belabor that.

I know that's what you want, but can't there be outside factors in Hak's/a coach's mind that determine their roster moves? Like for me: I can't understand a world where Folin would be perceived as better than Gudas...BUT I acknowledged that there are a few scenarios that could've caused him to play over Gudas that the Flyers do not owe the public necessarily (but I wish they would)...such as Gudas' real health sit, if Folin could be a better matchup against the AVS (due to being out West), or if he wasn't sure about Gudas or Folin yet for last spot.

Again: I think Gudas is for sure the answer, but I can see the logic in the move if it's any of the 3 above I mentioned.

"Best possible lineup" is all relative, I think. Lehtera isn't good, but he's decent at a role no one seems to be good at (PK) other than Giroux/Coots and we don't want to overuse them. McDonald is the vet on the D and has a role on the 3rd pairing (but of course he needs to have his minutes reduced, I'd say) BUT he has a history of logging lots of minutes (even if the result not being great)...I think we can really only trust Provo and Ghost right now, with the rest up in the air. I can see why McD gets more minutes with semi-question marks out there.

I can't wait until McDonald, Lehtera, Weiss, Folin (well, we'll see. Only 1 game), etc. are gone, but for now I don't think they're the real problem preventing us from winning anything. The Flyers have shown they're willing to play kids when they think it's appropriate, so I don't believe there's a lurking bias as many would say...

I have faith in the org. even if we are mediocre and the coach makes dumb decisions -- what gives me solace is that our best possible lineup isn't good enough anyway

for now.

That will change, based on Hextall's build, most likely this offseason. He already started this past offseason by signing JVR and will only add to it as Carter Hart starts, Sanheim hits his stride and perhaps Myers next in line.
This isn’t going to go anywhere productive so we can just end it here.

We’ll just have to agree to seriously disagree.
 
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deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
49,215
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Much of what Hextall does depends on both Elliott's play and Hart's progress.
Starting this season, only an idiot would think the Flyers were ready for a long playoff run, with shaky goaltending, a lot of young players learning on the job, the defense still in flux, etc.

But if Elliott continues to play this well, if Hart shows that he might be NHL ready by the playoffs, then Hextall might start thinking about changes in the second half of the season to build for a playoff run.

However, at this point I think they're still in player evaluation mode, the rebuild is in its last year, but the team isn't quite ready to take the next step.

There are a lot of "ifs" that have to be answered, is Sanheim ready for a top 4 role, is Hagg improved to being a reliable D-man, is Morin healthy and ready for the NHL, how fast do Myers and Friedman progress in LHV, do the top 3 lines mesh, how fast do Rubtsov, Twarynski, NAK and Kase progress in LHV. The answers to some of those questions may dictate TDL moves, both moving out veterans and maybe putting a modest package together for a solid veteran defenseman (I don't think Hextall is moving his top, ED protected prospects in any feasible deal).
 

kudymen

Hakstok was a fascist clique hiver lickballs.gif
Jun 18, 2011
22,796
44,200
Atlanta (Decatur)
Brilliant topic idea. Can we retroactively apply decisions from past seasons here? Like the five man unit for a d zone draw against Boston or making Konecny a 12 minute a night third liner in the playoffs? For a more complete list.

Rather not... the page limit is up to just 40 again...
 

Magua

Doer of Hoffific Things
Apr 25, 2016
37,157
154,047
Huron of the Lakes
I just need to make one quick comment in this maelstrom of shit:

You can lose games to stupidity. You can win games in spite of stupidity. The latter isn't better than the former long-term and in evaluating job performance -- it's just more obfuscating. It's why it's not always easy to fully celebrate wins for the wrong reasons.
 

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
49,215
21,617
If you decide before hand that if they win it's in spite of the coach, if they lose it's because of the coach, then it doesn't matter who he puts on the ice, does it? Whatever the result, it's the fault (or a victory despite) the scheme or personnel choices, because all that matter are the fan favorites, even if they screw up, it's the coach's fault.
 

bauer

I WANT GOALS
Nov 11, 2007
4,587
4,728
there is no way to list points lost to stupidity for the entire season in one thread. it's not possible. there are simply too many. there's more than enough content in one game to fill an entire thread.
 
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DancingPanther

Foundational Titan
Sponsor
Jun 19, 2018
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Let's pretend he made all the right choices you believe he should make (which I assume is to replace Mac with Sanheim, or keep Gudas in over Folin all year -- mind you, I don't necessarily disagree with either).

Realistically, what do you believe our potential is? A lot better (than with Hak's goofy roster decisions)?

My point is: I do not believe we would be sniffing real contention even if Hak made every correct decision (which is unheard of -- even Belicheck screws up). This is what stops my blood pressure from rising watching the team -- also I have confidence that Hak's days are numbered (and always have been), so that helps.

Also: I never said a loss is unimportant -- I'm pointing out that we shouldn't end it all because of a loss two games into the season. I know blah blah it's been going on for years...well, Hak's made the playoffs more often than not with a team that was very flawed despite his stupid decision-making. His teams have had moderate success regardless of a loss like this one and I can say that we didn't lose those two playoff series because of Hak, but instead because we were flat-out outplayed by much better talent. Statistically, there's plenty of hope for the playoffs and for the team to change/evolve. Let's wait till the last month of the season before we end it all, aight
It is the coach's job to put his team in the best position to win every night.

Hipstomp doesn't do this on a pretty consistent basis, tbh.

The fact that you just asked "does it really make a difference if the Flyers team that is iced isn't the best one they could possibly ice?" is knee-slapping comedy at best and pathetic at worst
 

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