Pogge vs Rask vs Scneider

dawgbone

Registered User
Jun 24, 2002
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Am I the only one who thinks Pogge's career follows a very similar path to that of Jeff Glass?

Both were fairly average goaltenders up until they got drafted, the their final year of junior put up impressive seasons on insanely talented teams (both also came out of nowhere to get the starting job for Team Canada at the WJC).

I wouldn't write Pogge off... but I wouldn't go annointing him as being a blue-chip goaltending prospect either.
 

Geese_Howard*

Guest
Am I the only one who thinks Pogge's career follows a very similar path to that of Jeff Glass?

Both were fairly average goaltenders up until they got drafted, the their final year of junior put up impressive seasons on insanely talented teams (both also came out of nowhere to get the starting job for Team Canada at the WJC).

I wouldn't write Pogge off... but I wouldn't go annointing him as being a blue-chip goaltending prospect either.

not really, I see him as a cam ward type prospect, another CHL goalie of the year.
 

captaincanadian

Registered User
Aug 5, 2004
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Maple Ridge, BC
not really, I see him as a cam ward type prospect, another CHL goalie of the year.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Jeff Glass CHL Goalie of the Year as well? Nobody can really deny that both of them have had a very similar progression through junior, although I think Pogge will end up much better than Glass has so far.

That said, I'd have to rank them as Rask>Schneider>Pogge.
 

Geese_Howard*

Guest
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Jeff Glass CHL Goalie of the Year as well? Nobody can really deny that both of them have had a very similar progression through junior, although I think Pogge will end up much better than Glass has so far.

That said, I'd have to rank them as Rask>Schneider>Pogge.

both were but people just see numbers, glass was never the goalie pogge is or was, cam ward is better comparison.
 

dawgbone

Registered User
Jun 24, 2002
21,104
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...excuse me????!!?!? *** o_O

Excuse you what?

Neither guy had great years the year they were drafted (both were pretty average), and both had fantastic post-draft years.

Not sure where you got lost there.
 

dawgbone

Registered User
Jun 24, 2002
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both were but people just see numbers, glass was never the goalie pogge is or was, cam ward is better comparison.

I just don't see how you can compare Pogge to Ward... Ward was putting up great Numbers (and was a proven WHL starter) at a much younger age than Pogge.

Just because their final years are comparable does not make Cam Ward a better comparison than Glass.

Both Glass and Pogge had the same benefits... they played on a great team and put up huge numbers.

Both guys played on absolutely stacked Canadian WJC teams, and in both cases the goalie just had to be average to make sure Canada won (this isn't like Luonogo or guys like Legace or Fernandez who had to be stupid-good to give Canada a chance).
 

Vyse64

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Feb 13, 2003
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both were but people just see numbers, glass was never the goalie pogge is or was, cam ward is better comparison.

Glass-Pogge is a better comparison at this time based on their numbers, WJC, and round drafted in, but Pogge getting a better chance than Glass is at the AHL, since Ottawa was stacked in goalie in the AHL with Guard and Thompson, where as the Leafs won't likely be and at worst Pogge will be the back up getting 30 maybe 40 starts, if someone like Aubin falls though waivers.

Now, I only said at this time, Pogge can raise up but I still find any comparison to Cam Ward insane (to any young goalie for that matter, just not Pogge) since Ward had no struggles at the WHL or AHL level and quickly took over Carolina's starting job during the playoffs.

We'll see how Pogge does at the AHL level 1st.
 

espo*

Guest
Both guys played on absolutely stacked Canadian WJC teams, and in both cases the goalie just had to be average to make sure Canada won (this isn't like Luonogo or guys like Legace or Fernandez who had to be stupid-good to give Canada a chance).

Whoa................wrong.Glass played on an absolutely stacked Canadian WJC squad and just had to be average to lead his team to Gold.Last years Canadian world junior team was now-where near that team and not really any more talented then the teams sent by the Russians and the U.S and Pogge indeed did have to play very well to bring us gold home.If you watched the games you would have seen Pogge played great in nets for Canada and a case could have been made for him being named best goaltender of the tourney.Glass and Pogges scenario with their team at that tournament and their play in it are not comparable at all.

I'm not saying he's a better prospect then either rask or schneider but his performance at last years WJC is not how you've put it here at all.You're right about Glass but way off on Pogge concerning the WJC.
 

dawgbone

Registered User
Jun 24, 2002
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Whoa................wrong.Glass played on an absolutely stacked Canadian WJC squad and just had to be average to lead his team to Gold. Last years Canadian world junior team was now-where near that team and not really any more talented then the teams sent by the Russians and the U.S and Pogge indeed did have to play very well to bring us gold home.

While there's no doubt that the '05 team was better than the '06 team, the fact of the matter is that both teams weren't really challenged at all. And whether they were supposed to be less talented than the Americans and Russians, the fact of the matter is Canada was a much stronger team than both of those countries.

If you watched the games you would have seen Pogge played great in nets for Canada and a case could have been made for him being named best goaltender of the tourney.Glass and Pogges scenario with their team at that tournament and their play in it are not comparable at all.

Pogge played well, but he didn't have to steal any games for Canada (much like Glass). And while he didn't have the goal support Glass got, Canada still averaged over 4 goals per game for him.

I'm not saying he's a better prospect then either rask or schneider but his performance at last years WJC is not how you've put it here at all.You're right about Glass but way off on Pogge concerning the WJC.

I don't think it's that far off. Pogge certainly had a tougher tournament than Glass did, but I think the only way Canada doesn't win gold in 06 was because of poor goaltending. Talent-wise, it should have been a tougher tournament for Canada, but the US never gelled, and the Russians weren't nearly as good as advertised (outside of Malkin).

Tournament results 2006 (Shots against Pogge):

Can 5 - Fin 1 (17 SA)
Can 4 - Swi 3 (17 SA)
Can 4 - Nor 0 (13 SA)
Can 3 - US 2 (24 SA)
Can 4 - Fin 0 (19 SA)
Can 5 - Rus 0 (35 SA)

http://www.iihf.com/Hydra/Tournaments_06/output/w18/hydra.iihf.com/IIHF_Core/jsp/content/web_output/index.jsp@compId=63

So in reality, he had 1 game where he had to be excellent, and even in that game, Canada score 5 goals. He faced over 20 shots twice, and got less than 4 goals of support once.

Tournament results 2005 (Shots against Glass):

Can 7 - Slv 3 (23 SA)
Can 8 - Swe 1 (17 SA)
Can 8 - Fin 1 (20 SA)
Can 3 - Cze 1 (11 SA)
Can 6 - Rus 1 (19 SA)

http://www.iihf.com/Hydra/Tournamen...ontent/web_output/index.jsp@compId=1000000020

Pogge faced an average of 20.3 shots per game, Glass faced an average of 18 shots per game. Neither were tested much.

Sorry, but he didn't have to be spectacular, and he really wasn't tested all that much. He made his saves, and did exactly what Canada needed from him, which was don't blow any games (much like Glass). I mean you could argue that if he had gotten more work he would have come up big, but the same argument could be made for Glass.
 

Leaf Army

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Jun 9, 2003
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, since Ottawa was stacked in goalie in the AHL with Guard and Thompson, where as the Leafs won't likely be and at worst Pogge will be the back up getting 30 maybe 40 starts, if someone like Aubin falls though waivers.

Well the Leafs could be stacked in the AHL with goalies too if they wanted to be. But they feel Pogge is good enough to clear the way and make him the number one.
 

TruGr1t

Proper Villain
Jun 26, 2003
22,906
6,497
Schneider's "lack of respect" stems more from the league he plays in rather than his nationality (IMO). Personally, I don't mind people saying that Rask or Pogge are better prospects, just don't add the ridiculous "I've hardly seen any of Schneider."

Bingo.

Schneider is right up there with Rask.
 

espo*

Guest
While there's no doubt that the '05 team was better than the '06 team, the fact of the matter is that both teams weren't really challenged at all. And whether they were supposed to be less talented than the Americans and Russians, the fact of the matter is Canada was a much stronger team than both of those countries.



Pogge played well, but he didn't have to steal any games for Canada (much like Glass). And while he didn't have the goal support Glass got, Canada still averaged over 4 goals per game for him.



I don't think it's that far off. Pogge certainly had a tougher tournament than Glass did, but I think the only way Canada doesn't win gold in 06 was because of poor goaltending. Talent-wise, it should have been a tougher tournament for Canada, but the US never gelled, and the Russians weren't nearly as good as advertised (outside of Malkin).

Tournament results 2006 (Shots against Pogge):

Can 5 - Fin 1 (17 SA)
Can 4 - Swi 3 (17 SA)
Can 4 - Nor 0 (13 SA)
Can 3 - US 2 (24 SA)
Can 4 - Fin 0 (19 SA)
Can 5 - Rus 0 (35 SA)

http://www.iihf.com/Hydra/Tournaments_06/output/w18/hydra.iihf.com/IIHF_Core/jsp/content/web_output/index.jsp@compId=63

So in reality, he had 1 game where he had to be excellent, and even in that game, Canada score 5 goals. He faced over 20 shots twice, and got less than 4 goals of support once.

Tournament results 2005 (Shots against Glass):

Can 7 - Slv 3 (23 SA)
Can 8 - Swe 1 (17 SA)
Can 8 - Fin 1 (20 SA)
Can 3 - Cze 1 (11 SA)
Can 6 - Rus 1 (19 SA)

http://www.iihf.com/Hydra/Tournamen...ontent/web_output/index.jsp@compId=1000000020

Pogge faced an average of 20.3 shots per game, Glass faced an average of 18 shots per game. Neither were tested much.

Sorry, but he didn't have to be spectacular, and he really wasn't tested all that much. He made his saves, and did exactly what Canada needed from him, which was don't blow any games (much like Glass). I mean you could argue that if he had gotten more work he would have come up big, but the same argument could be made for Glass.

I see what you're trying to say dawgbone but i still disagree and think you're analysing your points in the wrong way IMO.

You point out the fact the we were that much better then the competition regardless of whether the Russians and U.S were as talented as we were and i can't agree.Yes,we did show we were better but i think the diference was'nt all that much as you are making it out to be.The U.S gave us all we could handle in our game with them even if they did'nt have a great tournament overall.That game could have went either way and was basically a tie if you take out Kyle's pulling the goalie and going for the win and we sink an empty netter.Pogge came up big in that game as he had to make plenty of dandy saves and made them,he had to do more in that one game then glass had to do over the course of 6 in north dakota.The Russian game was a lot closer then the score indicated too,at least a lot closer then the year before.We beat them convincingly but Pogge turned away some real quality chances in that game that took the wind out of their sails so Canada could deflate them with a few big goals...then the game became sitting ducks when they collapsed.

But Glass in Dakota,well,he had to do practically nothing.I think i could have played nets for Canada and they would still have won.They just destroyed and toyed with every team they played let's face it.You point out that the shots faced for glass versus Pogge in both tournaments were very similar and they surely were but it's the Quality of shots that Pogge faced that is the difference.I mean,in Dakota the opoosition were getting maybe 15 shots a game and at best 1-2 of them were a test for glass,the rest were low percentage prayer shots from long to medium range that any junior goalie would have had an easy time turning away.His job with that team was so easy it really was almost comical,so thorough was that Canadian teams dominance.Canada's team last year was really good but not remotely comparable to the years before version despite the identical unbeaten result.

To me,Pogge in last years tournament gave us the best goaltending i've seen from a Canadian goalie in the years 1998-2006 since Fleury in Halifax and Luongo in Winnipeg.Again, I'm not saying he's better then Rask or Schneider but in that tournament he looked every bit as good as Schneider at least.Glass...........i would'nt be able to tell anything about him from north dakota,he had to do SFA for the most part. Their performances were'nt comparable IMO,not from the games i watched and i watched them all.

I wonder what most people who watched both goaltenders in both tournaments think? I'd be interested to hear about their view on this.

Anyway,i guess we see it a different way.
 

dawgbone

Registered User
Jun 24, 2002
21,104
0
I see what you're trying to say dawgbone but i still disagree and think you're analysing your points in the wrong way IMO.

You point out the fact the we were that much better then the competition regardless of whether the Russians and U.S were as talented as we were and i can't agree.Yes,we did show we were better but i think the diference was'nt all that much as you are making it out to be.The U.S gave us all we could handle in our game with them even if they did'nt have a great tournament overall.That game could have went either way and was basically a tie if you take out Kyle's pulling the goalie and going for the win and we sink an empty netter.Pogge came up big in that game as he had to make plenty of dandy saves and made them,he had to do more in that one game then glass had to do over the course of 6 in north dakota.The Russian game was a lot closer then the score indicated too,at least a lot closer then the year before.We beat them convincingly but Pogge turned away some real quality chances in that game that took the wind out of their sails so Canada could deflate them with a few big goals...then the game became sitting ducks when they collapsed.

But Glass in Dakota,well,he had to do practically nothing.I think i could have played nets for Canada and they would still have won.They just destroyed and toyed with every team they played let's face it.You point out that the shots faced for glass versus Pogge in both tournaments were very similar and they surely were but it's the Quality of shots that Pogge faced that is the difference.I mean,in Dakota the opoosition were getting maybe 15 shots a game and at best 1-2 of them were a test for glass,the rest were low percentage prayer shots from long to medium range that any junior goalie would have had an easy time turning away.His job with that team was so easy it really was almost comical,so thorough was that Canadian teams dominance.Canada's team last year was really good but not remotely comparable to the years before version despite the identical unbeaten result.

To me,Pogge in last years tournament gave us the best goaltending i've seen from a Canadian goalie in the years 1998-2006 since Fleury in Halifax and Luongo in Winnipeg.Again, I'm not saying he's better then Rask or Schneider but in that tournament he looked every bit as good as Schneider at least.Glass...........i would'nt be able to tell anything about him from north dakota,he had to do SFA for the most part. Their performances were'nt comparable IMO,not from the games i watched and i watched them all.

I wonder what most people who watched both goaltenders in both tournaments think? I'd be interested to hear about their view on this.

Anyway,i guess we see it a different way.

I guess the main issue is neither were tested as much as Canadian goaltenders had to in the past. Pogge had to be good against the US, but he didn't have to be exceptional (like Luongo or Fleury had to be in certain games in their tournaments). He just didn't have the workload. That's not a knock on him (he can't help that he only faced 24 shots instead of 40), it's just what I saw.

Pogge had to be better than Glass, because he got a lot less goal support... but that being said, he saw fewer shots and got more goal support against good teams than most Canadian goaltenders do in this tournament (similar to Glass the year before).
 

espo*

Guest
I guess the main issue is neither were tested as much as Canadian goaltenders had to in the past. Pogge had to be good against the US, but he didn't have to be exceptional (like Luongo or Fleury had to be in certain games in their tournaments). He just didn't have the workload. That's not a knock on him (he can't help that he only faced 24 shots instead of 40), it's just what I saw.

Pogge had to be better than Glass, because he got a lot less goal support... but that being said, he saw fewer shots and got more goal support against good teams than most Canadian goaltenders do in this tournament (similar to Glass the year before).

I'll grant you he did'nt have to do what luongo did that's for sure.

But almost anyone who's ever played high level competition in that tournament had a tougher job then Glass.Goaltending assignments just don't come any easier then glass's in Dakota. What a wall he had in front of him!! pressure totally non-existant.Total day at the beach,i did'nt see that last year,Pogge had to make nice saves.

Anyway,we saw it differently i guess. It happens.
 

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