Post-Game Talk: PO #1 | FLYERS 0 at Penguins 7 | Wed., April 11, 2018, 7:00 pm ET

[Tripod]

I think we can all agree that Ron should be willing to trade his 4th and later picks, Simmonds, (Weal, Hagg and other marginal prospects) to add depth this offseason, and sign a veteran or two who'd be an upgrade over Filppula and Lehtera to short-term deals. I'd even move the 2nd rd pick for a solid young forward.

I think the difference is some want to make the big push this offseason, and the rest of us would rather take it slow, let the kids marinate at Lehigh, see how the two 1st rd players do in their first post-draft season, and then make major moves. The first round picks, and top prospects like Ratcliffe and Allison should be off the table unless someone makes an offer Ron can't refuse.

When you add Vorobyev, Frost and NAK to Laughton, you're close to filling up the bottom six.
If Morin stays healthy and settles in, and Myers comes up at some point, you've pretty much filled out the 6 D spots.
And a year from now, we'll have a much better idea if Hart is the savior in goal, if guys like Allison and Ratcliffe and Laczynski and Strome and Rubtsov are near the NHL.

At that point, Ron can decide who he projects to the Flyers roster, and who he'll want to trade before their ELC runs out.
This offseason is just a little early to start rolling the dice.

No. Hextall should be will to trade a 2nd and later to add depth this year....as long as it's not a rental. Shit, just saw that you said the same for a younger guy. We are on the same page on this one.

We have a deep pipeline built. Using our 2 1sts on a F and a D for the future, then some of the others to help now, makes a bunch of sense.

But he can't go halfway. Don't fill one hole and leave 3 others unfilled. Fill them all to bridge the gap to the kids and upgrade on who we currently have. Plus, we will re-coup picks on moving out other depth anyways like we have with Cousins, Marody, etc...

#3 C should be our 1st hole we fill as it's our biggest non-goalie need.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Mason? Fleury before him?

BOB ?

 

[Ruck Over]

what was the other option and what was the cost.

None of us know that. A bs question to ask. All that we know, is what he did. A lack of creativity by Hextall is a negative mark against him as a GM. Conversely, if he did do due diligence, and that's the best he could do, he could end fan speculation by stating as such through a crafted media release. Hextall is approaching the Hinkie quietness area that got the later supposedly relieved of duties.

 

[Striiker]

None of us know that. A bs question to ask. All that we know, is what he did. A lack of creativity by Hextall is a negative mark against him as a GM. Conversely, if he did do due diligence, and that's the best he could do, he could end fan speculation by stating as such through a crafted media release. Hextall is approaching the Hinkie quietness area that got the later supposedly relieved of duties.

Without knowing what was possible you can’t knock him for creativity...

 

[gertbfrobe16]

i'd gladly trade jake for players to help with the pk simmer too we have too many passers/playmakers and vet glue guys. i don't see this team winning a cup with jake or simmer.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

If you want to fix the PK firing Hakstol & in turn Lappy would be a good start. Those two dinosaurs love putting crappy veterans out there in their passive shot blocking setup.

 

[Embiid]

10.34 gaa and a .737 svp so far for us

Holy crap....puts Leighton to shame. I mean those are some sad stats...a gaa higher than Ken Daneykos alcohol level when he was active and a sv% of an aircraft in freefall...

 

[Ruck Over]

Without knowing what was possible you can’t knock him for creativity...

I can knock him for the poor results that are currently showing...

 

[achdumeingute]

None of us know that. A bs question to ask. All that we know, is what he did. A lack of creativity by Hextall is a negative mark against him as a GM. Conversely, if he did do due diligence, and that's the best he could do, he could end fan speculation by stating as such through a crafted media release. Hextall is approaching the Hinkie quietness area that got the later supposedly relieved of duties.

Its no more BS than Hextall isn't doing enough, we should be winners now, cry cry.

Standing question for the GMs here, what would you do differently, how would you have fixed our mess!

To take the "how can we know what could have happened out", What UFAs would you have signed who signed, or what players who got traded would you have given a better offer for?

For me, I have NO issues with the NHL activity. Most of the trades Hex has made were imo, very good. Rinaldo for a 3rd, Lecav for more than a bag of pucks, Flip and a 4th for a corpse. I don't think a dumb guy makes those trades. Weise was bad, sure, but the damage there is pretty darn minimal. I'm a full drinker of the Koolaid. Im happy waiting, I'm patient. I see all the good that's coming...and am excited, for the future.

I've asked the question multiple times and never get a response...what would you do?

Now admittedly, I'm full in the fire Hak camp. He's got to be completely different next year if he returns, or has got to go. Perfectly happy if you want to blame Hex for keeping him.

 

[Striiker]

I can knock him for the poor results that are currently showing...

He should play goalie next game.

 

[Ruck Over]

Its no more BS than Hextall isn't doing enough, we should be winners now, cry cry.

Standing question for the GMs here, what would you do differently, how would you have fixed our mess!

To take the "how can we know what could have happened out", What UFAs would you have signed who signed, or what players who got traded would you have given a better offer for?

For me, I have NO issues with the NHL activity. Most of the trades Hex has made were imo, very good. Rinaldo for a 3rd, Lecav for more than a bag of pucks, Flip and a 4th for a corpse. I don't think a dumb guy makes those trades. Weise was bad, sure, but the damage there is pretty darn minimal. I'm a full drinker of the Koolaid. Im happy waiting, I'm patient. I see all the good that's coming...and am excited, for the future.

I've asked the question multiple times and never get a response...what would you do?

Now admittedly, I'm full in the fire Hak camp. He's got to be completely different next year if he returns, or has got to go. Perfectly happy if you want to blame Hex for keeping him.

It's a BS question because none of us here on hfboards are privy to the type of information necessary to answer that question. It might as well be rhetorical.

I'd toss the fans a bone and temper expectations instead of sayuing there's enough talent on this team to make the playoffs like it mattered, since we are still rebuilding and the process was more important than the results.

I would've made moves during the TDL in small matters like a Vanek or Grabner. If I really thought the farm was ready to start contributing, would've kicked the tires harder on a real add like White from OTT.

And I would've waived Lehtera the moment the trade went through, sent him to LHV. Bring up NAK for real, sooner. Give more rope to younger Phantoms to audition, 10 games at a time or so.

Every year, teams think they'll get the moon for certain players and they are eventually traded for less. Then there are times that players do go for that great package. Good GMs do something, be that action, or manage expectations. Hextall is not without fault, that's what many of us are saying. He at least has not managed expectations, bith saying this team is good enough to compete (false), and he will build through the drafdt (true). They should not be mutually exclusive options, they appear to be at the moment.

Oh, and obligatory #firehakstol

 

[Ruck Over]

He should play goalie next game.

Lose by seven, lose by seventy. It would at least be fun to see him again, I miss the stand up goalie style (albeit more inefficient in today's game.)

 

[achdumeingute]

It's a BS question because none of us here on hfboards are privy to the type of information necessary to answer that question. It might as well be rhetorical.

I'd toss the fans a bone and temper expectations instead of sayuing there's enough talent on this team to make the playoffs like it mattered, since we are still rebuilding and the process was more important than the results.

I would've made moves during the TDL in small matters like a Vanek or Grabner. If I really thought the farm was ready to start contributing, would've kicked the tires harder on a real add like White from OTT.

And I would've waived Lehtera the moment the trade went through, sent him to LHV. Bring up NAK for real, sooner. Give more rope to younger Phantoms to audition, 10 games at a time or so.

Every year, teams think they'll get the moon for certain players and they are eventually traded for less. Then there are times that players do go for that great package. Good GMs do something, be that action, or manage expectations. Hextall is not without fault, that's what many of us are saying. He at least has not managed expectations, bith saying this team is good enough to compete (false), and he will build through the drafdt (true). They should not be mutually exclusive options, they appear to be at the moment.

Oh, and obligatory #firehakstol

Fans don't like to hear we are rebuilding. Its a business....they want you in seats. Hextall is a professional liar...that is his job. If you are looking for blunt honesty, good luck, its not a popular management trait.

I do applaud you for posting some ideas.

I didn't see Vanek or Grabner as advancing the cause this year. I too would have rather went a little younger and just kind of said, you guys are great, i have confidence, go get it. We make it, or we don't

I think Read was in the AHL because they tried to deal him last year, and there were no takers. I'd like to believe Lehtera was playing to give us an opportunity to deal him (reportedly, he was being shopped). I think he might CERTAINLY be buried next year.

I 100% wanted to trade Flip and was sad we didnt, for anything. i get the logic that he's probably better to just ride out than get a 5th, but i was still hoping to see him get more assets. I applaud STL for trading Stasny, when they clearly were a bubble team and had a chance.

 

[gertbfrobe16]

Lose by seven, lose by seventy. It would at least be fun to see him again, I miss the stand up goalie style (albeit more inefficient in today's game.)

he would beat the shit outta crosby and tell hak to f*** off lol

 

[Ruck Over]

Fans don't like to hear we are rebuilding. Its a business....they want you in seats. Hextall is a professional liar...that is his job. If you are looking for blunt honesty, good luck, its not a popular management trait.

I do applaud you for posting some ideas.

I didn't see Vanek or Grabner as advancing the cause this year. I too would have rather went a little younger and just kind of said, you guys are great, i have confidence, go get it. We make it, or we don't

I think Read was in the AHL because they tried to deal him last year, and there were no takers. I'd like to believe Lehtera was playing to give us an opportunity to deal him (reportedly, he was being shopped). I think he might CERTAINLY be buried next year.

I 100% wanted to trade Flip and was sad we didnt, for anything. i get the logic that he's probably better to just ride out than get a 5th, but i was still hoping to see him get more assets. I applaud STL for trading Stasny, when they clearly were a bubble team and had a chance.

The Flyers basically said they were rebuilding with the slow play build through the draft. And honestly, Flyers fans are so loyal, they could've taken it. Especially after watching the Sixers locally.

Hextall doesn't have to give us a play by play, but the StL GM Army was a bit more transparent with his fanbase, then there is the Rangers and Vancouver GMs sending letters to the season ticket holders.

If the critique is Hextall is a bad liar, professionally or not, then so be it. He should get better at it.

Regarding Lehtera and Read, fine. Can't trade one guy, tried to trade another. But really, trying to trade Lehtera? It took Ron taking an 1st for him. What did he really think the market was after he helped set it. Schenn for a 1st and 3rd, bumped to a 1st to take Lehtera. So Lehtera is the difference of a 3rd and 1st (for simplicity, a 2nd). Did Hextall intend to have Lehtera play so well as to diminish the need to attach a 2nd to him in order to trade him? That's silly, folks have eyes (generally).

Edit: Vanek cost next to nothing and would've been a better version of Weal at a minimum. It only helps a bit this season, but helps none the less. Grabner would've been better than how Hakstol uses any bottom six winger not Simmonds. Little help is better than no help. If the playoffs mattered as Hextall implied that they did.

Edit*2- That cry cry comment was also bush league.

 

[Tripod]

It really comes down to every move, being about the future core. Schenn was traded for futures. If that is not the BIGGEST indication of it, not sure what else to say. Trade away 3 years of a 25 goal, 50-60 point guy, for futures. Because the future is what Hextall is building this contender for.

But along the way, G, Jake and Couts had years that not one of us expected. And common sencpse says Hextall and Co did not expect it either. And because of those career years, it masked the other issues and growing pains.

Now will Hextall make a move or 2-3 to help these guys for next year? Who knows. But the future is quickly becoming the present with Ghost, Provy, TK, Sanheim, Patrick and Lindblom.

Coaching is our biggest issue going forward. We have a stubborn coach who can't adapt and a PK coach who should have been fired years ago. That's my biggest issue with Hextall.

 

[Rebels57]

Without knowing what was possible you can’t knock him for creativity...

If we had all the answers we would have submitted our resumes for his job. Its his job to improve the team, not ours.

 

[Rebels57]

It really comes down to every move, being about the future core. Schenn was traded for futures. If that is not the BIGGEST indication of it, not sure what else to say. Trade away 3 years of a 25 goal, 50-60 point guy, for futures. Because the future is what Hextall is building this contender for.

But along the way, G, Jake and Couts had years that not one of us expected. And common sencpse says Hextall and Co did not expect it either. And because of those career years, it masked the other issues and growing pains.

Now will Hextall make a move or 2-3 to help these guys for next year? Who knows. But the future is quickly becoming the present with Ghost, Provy, TK, Sanheim, Patrick and Lindblom.

Coaching is our biggest issue going forward. We have a stubborn coach who can't adapt and a PK coach who should have been fired years ago. That's my biggest issue with Hextall.

I dont know how they can watch other teams PK and then think what they are doing is the best approach. Its truly flabbergasting.

 

[baudib1]

It really comes down to every move, being about the future core. Schenn was traded for futures. If that is not the BIGGEST indication of it, not sure what else to say. Trade away 3 years of a 25 goal, 50-60 point guy, for futures. Because the future is what Hextall is building this contender for.

But along the way, G, Jake and Couts had years that not one of us expected. And common sencpse says Hextall and Co did not expect it either. And because of those career years, it masked the other issues and growing pains.

Now will Hextall make a move or 2-3 to help these guys for next year? Who knows. But the future is quickly becoming the present with Ghost, Provy, TK, Sanheim, Patrick and Lindblom.

Coaching is our biggest issue going forward. We have a stubborn coach who can't adapt and a PK coach who should have been fired years ago. That's my biggest issue with Hextall.

If it was never in management's thought process that making the playoffs was important this year, there was never any reason to give a minute of ice time to Filppula or Lehtera. Just play Leier and Weal every game, let them go through their ups and downs and see what they can do. If this season was only about development, banish/trade Manning and start Morin from Game 1.

 

[WIP CALLER]

Hextalls biggest flaw is that he needs to pick a direction and go with it 100%. This half trying to rebuild, half trying to compete is a recipe for long term mediocrity as seen in the first 4 years of his tenure. Fans have no issue with a rebuild as long you're not playing garbage with no future during it. Acquiring Weise and Lehtera, and resigning Manning were stupid moves for a rebulding and a competing team. Their prescence on the roster serve zero purpose other than being a body. I can forgive the flip trade since streit was beyond terrible and at least we got a pick. And MacDonald wasn't his fault so I'll give him a free pass there too... But if those 3 players were replaced by young players, there would be very few complaints here even if they somehow performed worse than those 3. And this goes back really through his tenure. Every year there have been at least 3 players that were absolutely useless, that you couldn't get rid of, and would be better served being replaced by a young player. I get we are in a rebuild mode so let's play all of our young talent instead of these scrubs that are serving literally zero purpose to our now or future. It really isn't a hard concept, play the vets that you believe can still help you when you're ready to compete and bury everyone else to be replaced with young talent to give them a shot to grow or be replaced within by another young talent. Hextalls done a great job obtaining young talent but has done a poor job utilizing it to it's full potential thus far imo

 

[achdumeingute]

Hextalls biggest flaw is that he needs to pick a direction and go with it 100%. This half trying to rebuild, half trying to compete is a recipe for long term mediocrity as seen in the first 4 years of his tenure. Fans have no issue with a rebuild as long you're not playing garbage with no future during it. Acquiring Weise and Lehtera, and resigning Manning were stupid moves for a rebulding and a competing team. Their prescence on the roster serve zero purpose other than being a body. I can forgive the flip trade since streit was beyond terrible and at least we got a pick. And MacDonald wasn't his fault so I'll give him a free pass there too... But if those 3 players were replaced by young players, there would be very few complaints here even if they somehow performed worse than those 3. And this goes back really through his tenure. Every year there have been at least 3 players that were absolutely useless, that you couldn't get rid of, and would be better served being replaced by a young player. I get we are in a rebuild mode so let's play all of our young talent instead of these scrubs that are serving literally zero purpose to our now or future. It really isn't a hard concept, play the vets that you believe can still help you when you're ready to compete and bury everyone else to be replaced with young talent to give them a shot to grow or be replaced within by another young talent. Hextalls done a great job obtaining young talent but has done a poor job utilizing it to it's full potential thus far imo

it could also be that the org is being patient with prospects and not rushing them. So the NHL roster has some bodies while younger players develop.

 

[baudib1]

If you were to rate the non-Patrick rookies based on how they looked in preseason and their readiness/skill for the next level, it would be something like:

1. Lindblom
2. Sanheim
3. Morin

With all three making the starting lineup. Instead we got Hagg and Leier.

If you were to rate the overpriced vets who are short-termers, it'd be something like:
1. Read
2. Filppula
3. Lehtera
4. Weise

They send Read to the AHL.

They need to get better at this stuff.

 

[deadhead]

Weise was #12, Lehtera #13, Read sent to AHL which is an hour away.
Filppula was the 3C, he may be a bad 3C, but we were thin on centers in September.
And Laughton is playing LW with Lehtera at 4C b/c Hakstol sees the same things I see, that's where he belongs.

Lindblom wasn't ready in September.
Sanheim showed he wasn't ready, much better player since he returned.
Morin can't stay healthy, Hagg can, no one won a job from the trainer's table. Otherwise he would have gotten a long cameo to beat out Hagg early in the season.

Prospects rarely progress in a linear fashion, often it's one step back, two steps forward, which is why teams that win usually have a core that's 25-29 years old, that is, a lot of talented young players with their growing pains behind them - this team has 5 starters 21 or younger. Just look at Ghost and Couts, and see how much players can improve from 22-25.

Oh yeah, anyone notice Toronto getting smoked by Boston, 5-1, and outshot 40-27. Fire Babcock!

 

[FlyTimmo]

Weise was #12, Lehtera #13, Read sent to AHL which is an hour away.
Filppula was the 3C, he may be a bad 3C, but we were thin on centers in September.
And Laughton is playing LW with Lehtera at 4C b/c Hakstol sees the same things I see, that's where he belongs.

Lindblom wasn't ready in September.
Sanheim showed he wasn't ready, much better player since he returned.
Morin can't stay healthy, Hagg can, no one won a job from the trainer's table. Otherwise he would have gotten a long cameo to beat out Hagg early in the season.

Prospects rarely progress in a linear fashion, often it's one step back, two steps forward, which is why teams that win usually have a core that's 25-29 years old, that is, a lot of talented young players with their growing pains behind them - this team has 5 starters 21 or younger. Just look at Ghost and Couts, and see how much players can improve from 22-25.

Oh yeah, anyone notice Toronto getting smoked by Boston, 5-1, and outshot 40-27. Fire Babcock!

I don't know about Lindblom not being ready in September. I originally had the same thought back around Christmas, but I didn't get to watch all of the preseason games and some posters corrected me.

He was probably ready in September.

 

[baudib1]

This idea that playing in the AHL makes you better is just laughable. Lindblom dominated a league just as good as the AHL last year. He was a good NHL player the moment he stepped foot on the ice for the Flyers He didn't magically go from "bad NHL player" to "good NHL player" because Gordon poured magic dust on him for 4 months.

If anything, Lindblom was better than Patrick in September.

Twenty-one-year-olds have been coming over from Sweden and dominating right away with no AHL experience for decades. The Flyers have everyone brainwashed into thinking every player they get needs to be indoctrinated in the Flyer way or something. It's absurd.