Post-Game Talk: Plus-Minus Thread | Rangers 6, Penguins 1 | Insert sarcastic title here

Ogrezilla

Nerf Herder
Jul 5, 2009
75,534
22,049
Pittsburgh
Well I don't think Malkin has been bad at all. He's dealt with injuries and had a revolving door of left wingers all year. That certainly has impacted his productivity. So moving Kunitz back with him would bring back a proven combo that we know will work if given time.

My opinion is that the best top 6 in the playoffs for this team is either:

Duper-Sid-Iggy
Kunitz-Malkin-Neal

or

Kunitz-Sid-Iggy
Morrow-Malkin-Neal with Duper on the 3rd line RW

Both of these options keep Sid with a speedy/gritty winger that will get the puck and open up space for Sid and Iggy to work. From the 3 games I've seen, Iggy has been much more of a triggerman than the 1st guy on the forecheck. He can definitely do far more than just shoot, but I think his skills are maximized with Sid since Geno already has Neal for the triggerman spot. Plus, Neal is a proven RW here and Iggy has been a RW his entire career. Why move guys from their proven positions?

this guy gets me.

This really was just ****** timing for Sid to get hurt.
 

Jag68Sid87

Sullivan gots to go!
Oct 1, 2003
35,575
1,249
Montreal, QC
It's unreal to me that Jokinen was worth a 7th and B. Morrow was worth J. Morrow. I just can't comprehend that. I know Jussi has another year... But is that really the difference in the value b/w the two?!

Well, a veteran Canadian-born captain and Olympian always has more value than most around the league. It's just the way it is. I am 100 per cent certain that the Pens didn't acquire B. Morrow based on his 2013 play with Dallas. But he gets the benefit of the doubt because of his oozing intangibles. The only reason I don't have a problem with this deal anymore is because Morrow's arrival may have convinced Iggy to choose us over Boston. It may not have factored in at all. Maybe Iggy comes here anyway if just Murray had been acquired, but we'll never know for sure. I think Morrow's arrival was a factor. And so I now judge the three deals as a package, not individually. Individually, the Morrow for Morrow deal is terrible for us.


As for last night, I think it has to be concerning to everybody in the organization that every now and then this team looks exactly like they did last spring. We have different players. Renewed energy. Raised expectations. But every now and then, we're back to last spring on the ice. The injuries definitely are hurting us now, but that's an excuse at this point. We need to right this ship quickly. We don't want to give any 8 seed any confidence going into the playoffs.

As for the lineup, I think we all know Crosby will play between Kunitz and Dupuis when he returns. Bylsma put 16-year HOF right-winger Jarome frickin' Iginla on the left side so as to NOT break up his precious first line. He's not making changes to it without any time to find chemistry before the playoffs. It's just not going to happen, and we all know this.
 

MrBurghundy

I may be older but I'm never forgetting #47 & #41
Oct 5, 2009
26,433
3,509
I Love Scotch
Clearly Crosby can only produce with Kunitz and Dupuis on his wings. When will that scrub finally not need his hand held by the two best wingers on the team to put up points?
 

Sidney the Kidney

One last time
Jun 29, 2009
55,518
46,235
As for the lineup, I think we all know Crosby will play between Kunitz and Dupuis when he returns. Bylsma put 16-year HOF right-winger Jarome frickin' Iginla on the left side so as to NOT break up his precious first line. He's not making changes to it without any time to find chemistry before the playoffs. It's just not going to happen, and we all know this.

I'll say it right now. If Bylsma not putting Sid with Iginla results in us having trouble scoring in the playoffs or even results in the Pens losing early, I hope he's canned. Because he'll deserve to be fired if he won't even try the two of them together.
 

radapex

Registered User
Sep 21, 2012
7,766
528
Canada, Eh
I'll say it right now. If Bylsma not putting Sid with Iginla results in us having trouble scoring in the playoffs or even results in the Pens losing early, I hope he's canned. Because he'll deserve to be fired if he won't even try the two of them together.

And if putting Crosby and Iginla together still doesn't yield results, then what?

The only thing we know for certain, right now, is that the Kunitz-Crosby-Dupuis can carry the team.
 

Sidney the Kidney

One last time
Jun 29, 2009
55,518
46,235
And if putting Crosby and Iginla together still doesn't yield results, then what?

The only thing we know for certain, right now, is that the Kunitz-Crosby-Dupuis can carry the team.

My point is TRY THE FREAKING LINE. If it doesn't work, there's always Dupuis. He's not going anywhere. There's no rule that says Bylsma can't go back to Dupuis if Iginla doesn't click with Crosby.

At least if Bylsma tries Iginla with Crosby and we still lose, he can say he tried everything possible. If he doesn't even try Iginla there and insists on keeping Dupuis glued to Crosby's side, then he deserves to be canned for not trying everything possible.
 

Ogrezilla

Nerf Herder
Jul 5, 2009
75,534
22,049
Pittsburgh
And if putting Crosby and Iginla together still doesn't yield results, then what?

The only thing we know for certain, right now, is that the Kunitz-Crosby-Dupuis can carry the team.

Can it? Even in the playoffs?

you seem to view lines as way more rigid than they need to be. If a change doesn't work, we can always change back.
 

plaidchuck

Registered User
Feb 26, 2013
5,638
0
Pittsburgh
Well for any DB detractors all of these pickups definitely puts the onus on him to succeed in the playoffs. If Shero didn't make any big pickups you could say they were looking towards next season, but now Bylsma might be in trouble with anything less than the ECF.
 

Dinfire

Registered User
Mar 9, 2011
1,003
316
Los Angeles
People can make up all the excuses they want, but right now the Penguins look exactly like they did at the end of last season. Losing to teams that are far inferior, a seeming lack of interest, undisciplined penalties, etc. We thought they could turn it around in the playoffs last year and "flip a switch" and we all know how that worked out. They had a crazy winning streak last year, just like this year. Everything is just too eerily similar. Not good. At all.
 

Sty1877

Registered User
Mar 21, 2010
1,074
144
And if putting Crosby and Iginla together still doesn't yield results, then what?

The only thing we know for certain, right now, is that the Kunitz-Crosby-Dupuis can carry the team.

....in the regular season.
 

Le Magnifique 66

Let's Go Pens
Jun 9, 2006
23,618
3,246
Montreal
I'm not so sure about that. Even with plates instead of wiring it's supposedly 4-6 weeks recovery time and absolutely no activity for the first 2 weeks of that time.

I think he will be back, playing with a full cage of course just like back in his junior days :laugh:

Going to be even more scary :yo:
 

Shady Machine

Registered User
Aug 6, 2010
36,691
8,111
People can make up all the excuses they want, but right now the Penguins look exactly like they did at the end of last season. Losing to teams that are far inferior, a seeming lack of interest, undisciplined penalties, etc. We thought they could turn it around in the playoffs last year and "flip a switch" and we all know how that worked out. They had a crazy winning streak last year, just like this year. Everything is just too eerily similar. Not good. At all.

Oh come on. They have been playing incredibly well and just had two total **** games. I'll give this team the benefit of the doubt. The difference between last year's winning streak and this one is that they were playing great defensively during this streak. What I was watching was not just a team winning, but a team winning the right way. It's no surprise that the goalies looked better (and had better stats) when the team played solid defense. Let's just throw the last two games out and start fresh on Friday. If this is a trend over 5 games, then let's worry.
 

Dinfire

Registered User
Mar 9, 2011
1,003
316
Los Angeles
Oh come on. They have been playing incredibly well and just had two total **** games. I'll give this team the benefit of the doubt. The difference between last year's winning streak and this one is that they were playing great defensively during this streak. What I was watching was not just a team winning, but a team winning the right way. It's no surprise that the goalies looked better (and had better stats) when the team played solid defense. Let's just throw the last two games out and start fresh on Friday. If this is a trend over 5 games, then let's worry.

They haven't even been competitive in either of these games. They have looked TERRIBLE and exactly like they looked against the Flyers in the playoffs last year (minus the ability to score). They don't have an adequate battle level when they have nothing to play for. Every team is desperate right now and are already playing "playoff hockey." We have not looked good in these situations. This team needs to figure out how to stay motivated when it seems they have little to play for. Once they get in that mindset it's been difficult to get out of it in the last few seasons.
 

LetangInTheSO

Registered User
Oct 17, 2008
2,094
0
Oh come on. They have been playing incredibly well and just had two total **** games. I'll give this team the benefit of the doubt. The difference between last year's winning streak and this one is that they were playing great defensively during this streak. What I was watching was not just a team winning, but a team winning the right way. It's no surprise that the goalies looked better (and had better stats) when the team played solid defense. Let's just throw the last two games out and start fresh on Friday. If this is a trend over 5 games, then let's worry.

FWIW, I side about half-way between "this team will collapse in the playoffs" and "we are a lock to go deep." The latter half of the winning streak looked quite good; there were several games to be proud of. There were also a lot of poor games. We were outshot/outplayed heavily in a few of those games in which Vokoun/Fleury stood on their heads (I was at one of them on LI).

I think we've seen the D play well enough for solid stretches to have enough confidence that they can play well in the playoffs. I just hope that our super gimungous big cupboard full of forwards can find ways to score 2+ G/G without Crosby, if need be.
 

Shady Machine

Registered User
Aug 6, 2010
36,691
8,111
They haven't even been competitive in either of these games. They have looked TERRIBLE and exactly like they looked against the Flyers in the playoffs last year (minus the ability to score). They don't have an adequate battle level when they have nothing to play for. Every team is desperate right now and are already playing "playoff hockey." We have not looked good in these situations. This team needs to figure out how to stay motivated when it seems they have little to play for. Once they get in that mindset it's been difficult to get out of it in the last few seasons.

How did they stay motivated when they won 10 games in a row? How about 11, 12, 13, 14? The fact is we are without Crosby, Letang, and Martin. Those are arguably our 3 most important players this season. You are definitely right that we looked like complete **** the past 2 games. However, the comparison to the Philly series is really wrong. All I'm saying is it's not time to panic. We have lost 2 of our last 17 games. I bet you see a different team on Friday than we saw last night.
 

MrBurghundy

I may be older but I'm never forgetting #47 & #41
Oct 5, 2009
26,433
3,509
I Love Scotch
Can it? Even in the playoffs?

you seem to view lines as way more rigid than they need to be. If a change doesn't work, we can always change back.

Which seems to be completely lost on the great majority of the posters here and the head coach as well.
 

PensFanSince1989

Registered User
Oct 25, 2008
10,578
40
I'm not so sure about that. Even with plates instead of wiring it's supposedly 4-6 weeks recovery time and absolutely no activity for the first 2 weeks of that time.

And you get that from?

Knuble had a broken jaw, had plates and screws put in, and was playing 8 days after the injury. While that is likely too aggressive of a time frame for Sid, there's no '4-6 definitive recovery time' or '2 weeks doing nothing' time frame as you suggest.
 

LGP6687

Registered User
Apr 3, 2013
372
0
What pisses me off is that, if they can keep discipline, they could get the Cup, easily.. The worst thing the Penguins do is, when they get down a few goals and/or the refs made bad calls, they become unglued, goon up, and we lose any chance at winning due to being in the box half the game.

During the winning streak, they DID NOT DO THAT. How can they figure out the formula during a winning streak, yet after the streak is over, completely forget?

We're going to lose games. But those losses wouldn't be as huge if they didn't lose their cool.. Several times they managed to overcome deficits by keeping their cool.

If Bylsma isn't stressing this point, he isn't coaching properly. It's his job to make the team keep discipline and drive up. Sure, they can't fly every day, win every game, but they could at least lose with dignity.
 

radapex

Registered User
Sep 21, 2012
7,766
528
Canada, Eh
And you get that from?

Knuble had a broken jaw, had plates and screws put in, and was playing 8 days after the injury. While that is likely too aggressive of a time frame for Sid, there's no '4-6 definitive recovery time' or '2 weeks doing nothing' time frame as you suggest.

My mistake, it was 3-4 weeks since he wasn't wired.

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories...-crosbys-jaw-expected-to-heal-quickly-681738/

"As long as he keeps his nourishment up -- and he should since he's not wired shut -- he should be good to go in three to four weeks," said David Dattilo, director of oral and maxillofacial surgery for West Penn Allegheny Health System.

...

Surgeons typically can do the surgery from inside the mouth, cutting through the mucous membrane to get to the bone. The membrane quickly heals and the thin metal is almost unnoticeable within a few weeks.
The goal -- as it is with wiring the jaw shut -- is to get "rigid fixation" of the jaw. It will heal better and more quickly if the fractured jaw bone does not move at all, particularly during the first few weeks.
Improper alignment, or even micro-movements during healing, can cause a variety of problems down the road, including temporal mandibular joint, or TMJ issues, that can cause pain, earaches and headaches, Dr. Kellman said.

They also recommended no end-to-end skating until the swelling from both the puck and surgeries goes down. Based off my experience with swelling after jaw/dental work, it'll likely be a week or so before the swelling is down which is just shy of two weeks total before he can start really working again.

If you work with the 3-4 week projection, we're looking at maybe 2-3 games at the end of the regular season but I can't see them putting him out there if the games don't mean anything.

This afternoon Shelly Anderson tweeted that Bylsma said Crosby still has more dental work to go through as well.

Shelly Anderson ‏@pgshelly 2h
Bylsma also saw Crosby, said he still has dental work, sounds different but looks good. #Penguins

https://twitter.com/pgshelly/status/319858879838183425
 
Last edited:

Waffle Fries

Registered User
Mar 7, 2013
18,086
2

That article also said that he could return in 3-4 weeks without special headgear. So hypothetically, he could return slightly sooner with it. The doctor also said that a minor league player was back on the ice the next day with special headgear after the same type of surgery and that Sid could start working out by the end of the week.

There still isn't really a time frame for us to go off of, but I don't think the dental work is going to keep him out any longer.
 

radapex

Registered User
Sep 21, 2012
7,766
528
Canada, Eh
That article also said that he could return in 3-4 weeks without special headgear. So hypothetically, he could return slightly sooner with it. The doctor also said that a minor league player was back on the ice the next day with special headgear after the same type of surgery and that Sid could start working out by the end of the week.

There still isn't really a time frame for us to go off of, but I don't think the dental work is going to keep him out any longer.

Oh, I don't mean to make it sound like dental work would be a major thing. It might keep him out a couple more days depending on the extent of the work, but that's minor in comparison to the jaw.

And you're absolutely correct about the time frame. As the organization said, they're listing him as "out indefinitely" because there is no time frame so they just have to wait and see how the recovery goes.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->