Post-Game Talk: Plus/Minus: Pens vs. CBJ - Backs against the wall edition

[ZeroPucksGiven]

What I find very interesting about this conversation is that no one has brought up the fact that the Pens have allowed the most short handed goals in the NHL and that a good portion of these goals are directly caused by Kessel. The other teams know that Kessel is the puck carrier on the PP. So they have been standing up to him on the blue line. Unfortunately this means that Kessel would either have to make a great move (which at times he can) or he has to dump it in (which he never seems to do). The interesting thing about the Pens PP is that it could be run through Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Kessel or Schultz, yet they always seem to default to Kessel unless Kessel is on PP2.

This exactly
I swear they act like teams don't scout PP tendencies and will counter it by taking away what you like to do
Last year there was a stretch where Malkin/Kessel had a sweet give and go to enter the zone on the man advantage, they probably got 4 goals out of it

Then teams caught on and we can barely enter the freakin zone now.

 

[RSPens]

This exactly
I swear they act like teams don't scout PP tendencies and will counter it by taking away what you like to do
Last year there was a stretch where Malkin/Kessel had a sweet give and go to enter the zone on the man advantage, they probably got 4 goals out of it

Then teams caught on and we can barely enter the freakin zone now.

Actually, I think I can answer my own question about why Kessel never dumps the puck in. The person dumping the puck in should be one of the first people on the puck since they have the most forward momentum and good luck getting Kessel to forecheck on a dump in. All the more reason for Sid or Geno to be the primary puck carrier on the PP.

 

[ChaosAgent]

This is all good information but this shouldn't nearly be this difficult, and we're both all over the road considering the original argument was Rust vs. Kessel. I don't see how that's an argument worth having. I think it's fairly clear who is more valuable, and the reasons are fairly simple: Players like Kessel are 10x harder to find than ones like Rust. It's just the way it is, and that is not to discount anything Rust provides. You need all kinds of different team traits to win, but it's much easier to find his overall skill set and talent level.

If you don't have Rust, you can make up for it in other ways in your roster. Not so with goal scoring. Rust on the PP does not equal Kessel or whomever on the PP in his place. If you want to argue that Kessel is more redundant or unnecessary than Rust, I think that's a valid opinion. I'm definitely glad we had Phil in all the situations he played in during those two Cup runs though, and to say the least, I'm not convinced the results would be the same if we hadn't.

I'm worried about Phil now. Not how he was during the Cup runs.

A player being hard to find doesn't make them good. Diamonds are hard to find but have no use value whatsoever. But they sure look pretty. A player that has some hard to find traits but gives away A TON in the conventional traits...well, look...just be honest when your team is fishing the puck out of its own net over and over when he's on the ice that the conventional traits are needed on the ice. Other players can bring them, sure, but every player should bring some element of them or your team is playing shorthanded.

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

Let’s give it more than a game, but here’s hoping. We’re going to need what people think Johnson is in the playoffs from here on out.

I thought Johnson has looked good since going back to playing LD. The Johnson-Schultz pairing has played strong since they have been put together. Even having to play high top pairing minutes they still looked good. If they can handle playing top pairing minutes and do a decent job then they should be even better when Dumoulin-Letang take all those tough matchups.

After the first 25 games Johnson has been a +10 player while playing top 4 minutes so he has been much better than people criticize on these boards, Hooks Orpik on Pensburgh, and Ryan Wilson on Hockeybuzz. I used to read those articles daily but lately they have become obnoxious. If he was getting burnt all the time I would be with them but he has been real solid defensively with providing the net front toughness needed. Having a good puck moving defenseman on his right is exactly what is needed to form a good pairing.

 

[ncm7772]

I thought Johnson has looked good since going back to playing LD. The Johnson-Schultz pairing has played strong since they have been put together. Even having to play high top pairing minutes they still looked good. If they can handle playing top pairing minutes and do a decent job then they should be even better when Dumoulin-Letang take all those tough matchups.

After the first 25 games Johnson has been a +10 player while playing top 4 minutes so he has been much better than people criticize on these boards, Hooks Orpik on Pensburgh, and Ryan Wilson on Hockeybuzz. I used to read those articles daily but lately they have become obnoxious. If he was getting burnt all the time I would be with them but he has been real solid defensively with providing the net front toughness needed. Having a good puck moving defenseman on his right is exactly what is needed to form a good pairing.

I hope you don't take ANYTHING of merit from Pensburgh.

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

So with new injuries...

Guentzel Crosby Hornqvist
Aston-Reese Malkin Kessel
McCann Bjugstad Simon
Blueger Cullen Wilson

Johnson Schultz
Petterson Gudbranson
Riikola Trotman

I think those forward lines are well put together with one net front go to the net type player with goal scorer on other wing. Although 3rd pairing has Rust type player on one side and playmaker type on the other but McCann still plays the physical style also with that speed. I think we can survive with that lineup until Rust is back for playoffs.

When Dumoulin-Letang gets back I think that lineup will be pretty solid. Maatta should be back near playoff time also. It will be very interesting if Pettersson-Gudbranson will work as a 3rd pairing. Get our first taste Friday. Nice to have a little grit on all lines and D pairings. Nice balance of skill and grit. In theory these lines should work. Hurts not having Rust but Simon can handle that spot for now.

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

I hope you don't take ANYTHING of merit from Pensburgh.

I just like reading anything about hockey. Any other good websites to get articles from?

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

If you want to have an enjoyable read go to the Bluejackets thread and read the game day thread it will make your day.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

I'm worried about Phil now. Not how he was during the Cup runs.

A player being hard to find doesn't make them good. Diamonds are hard to find but have no use value whatsoever. But they sure look pretty. A player that has some hard to find traits but gives away A TON in the conventional traits...well, look...just be honest when your team is fishing the puck out of its own net over and over when he's on the ice that the conventional traits are needed on the ice. Other players can bring them, sure, but every player should bring some element of them or your team is playing shorthanded.

I hear ya, and Phil has been inept for about five more games than when I figured he would get out of his funk and start scoring again. I suppose a tiny silver lining is that I think Phil is a better player beyond shooting than other triggermen like Sykora or Versteeg or someone. He can at least get around out there and pass the puck, though he of course isn’t going to be mentioned for anything he does defensively at all really.

 

[Turin]

If you want to have an enjoyable read go to the Bluejackets thread and read the game day thread it will make your day.

The sentiment that Lemieux and Jagr were amazing, graceful class acts and Sid and Geno are entitled whiners is amazing and so out of touch.

 

[BHD]

Closing this last night's game is no longer being discussed.