Players you have watched that get no press historically

zeus3007*

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Esa Tikkanen is only talked about in agitator threads...he was actually very good until his legs stopped working.

Uwe Krupp was one of the best shut down guys in the league. All anyone remembers is that he is German.

Joel Otto. I like him even as a kid, and I am an Oilers fan. Very solid defensive center.

Darren Puppa. Is possibly the most underrated goalie ever.
 

plusandminus

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Uwe Krupp was one of the best shut down guys in the league. All anyone remembers is that he is German.

Krupp also scored a Stanley Cup winning goal for Colorado vs Florida, in 3rd overtime period. That's what I remember him for, in addition to him being German. ;)
Today he is coaching the German national team.
 

plusandminus

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... Here are some other top wingers of the last two generations (guys whose careers overlapped Robitaille's fairly significantly) and the number of times they were top-25 and top-15 in points:

Jagr: 13, 12
Robitaille: 11, 8
Hull: 11, 5
Selanne: 10, 9
Recchi: 9, 7
Kurri: 8, 7
Tkachuk: 8, 4
Alfredsson: 7, 4
St. Louis: 6, 6
Iginla: 6, 5
Goulet: 6, 5
Kariya: 6, 5
LeClair: 6, 5
Bure: 6, 5
Fleury: 6, 4
Mogilny: 6, 3
Larmer; 6, 1
Kovalchuk: 5, 5
Shanahan: 5, 4
Kerr: 5, 1
Hossa: 4, 4
Naslund: 4, 3
Ciccarelli: 4, 2
Elias: 4, 2
Amonte: 4, 2
Propp: 4, 1
Andreychuk: 4, 1
Hejduk: 3, 2
Gartner: 2, 1
Neely: 2, 0
Bellows: 1, 1

Notice that a lot of guys who may be known as better "pure snipers" show up well below Robitaille when you focus on total points and not just goals. For a guy known as a one-dimensional goalscorer, he sure showed the ability to pile up assists, unlike players like Neely, Gartner, Andreychuk, Ciccarelly, Kerr, Kovalchuk and Bure. He and Selanne are both incredibly underrated as playmakers historically.

Interesting list. Although scoring is not everything, of course, as we know.
It would be interesting to see the centers too.
Even more interesting with be a list with name followed by best finishes in the scoring race, like (I'm making figures up):
Jagr 1,1,1,1,2,3,3,5,6,6,6,7
Iginla 1,4,5,6,7,8

I didn't see Sundin on the list. I though he was basically always consistant in number of games played and scoring, and that he was very often the leading scorer for Toronto?
 

seventieslord

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to my eyes, luc was very well loved in LA and was often their most visible player after wayne. i'll bet that today, more people in LA would recognize robitaille's name than dionne's. he has remained visible with the organization, at charity events, and he was always popular with the celebs which doesn't hurt.

you could argue that earlier in his career jimmy carson had a higher profile. and dionne at the very beginning of course.

in '93, when gretzky was out for most of the regular season, it seemed like luc got much more credit than kurri. they were excellent carrying the team together and if anything it's kurri's '93 year that is underrated historically.

later in his career, robitaille was usually the focal point, even after his prime. part of it was because of what he had done and what he meant to the franchise. and part of it was he was scoring 35 goals from the second line. i guess you could say he was eclipsed for a while by palffy, but palffy was legitimately a top player in the league for a bit. and at the very end, luc seemed to get more press than then-young hotshot frolov, who at that point was carrying him.

he never played a game with kopitar, by the way.

- oh right, of course... it was the guy before me who mentioned Kopitar and I instantly thought the '06 season, but of course Kopitar wasn't in the NHL yet.

So you are basically agreeing that Luc got a lot of press, then? that's the way I saw it. I don't find him unappreciated, not a candidate for this thread.

Interesting list. Although scoring is not everything, of course, as we know.
It would be interesting to see the centers too.
Even more interesting with be a list with name followed by best finishes in the scoring race, like (I'm making figures up):
Jagr 1,1,1,1,2,3,3,5,6,6,6,7
Iginla 1,4,5,6,7,8

I didn't see Sundin on the list. I though he was basically always consistant in number of games played and scoring, and that he was very often the leading scorer for Toronto?

- Right, scoring is not everything, but this is a good starting point if you want to see which wingers have been the most offensively dominant in the past 30 years.
- Sundin's not on the list because he is a center. If you're curious, he was top-25 ten times, top-15 six times. Extremely consistent. Pierre Turgeon has almost the exact same record (10, 5)
- I didn't include centers as it's not really apples to apples. Centers tend to place higher in scoring, and more frequently than wingers.
- If you want a steady diet of that kind of stuff fed to you, you should join the All-Time Draft. Seriously, it will be the most rewarding experience of your life as a hockey history enthusiast. The next one starts next January, but in the meantime the Minor League Draft will get your feet plenty wet.
 

vadim sharifijanov

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- oh right, of course... it was the guy before me who mentioned Kopitar and I instantly thought the '06 season, but of course Kopitar wasn't in the NHL yet.

So you are basically agreeing that Luc got a lot of press, then? that's the way I saw it. I don't find him unappreciated, not a candidate for this thread.

yep we agree. i like what your post implied, that if anything robitaille gets overrated.

like you i'm also a fan of robitaille and i don't want to tear him down as if he were gartner, because he wasn't by a longshot. i do think he gets underrated by *some* people who do lump him in with the gartners and ciccarellis. but still this thread is not the place for him.
 

patsypostal

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Persson's reputation seems to be more that he was a PP guy, not necessarily a "great defender".

You are right that he did play all special teams, but in his career he was on the ice for three times as many PPGF as PPGA, so there's a definite major slant towards offensive duties there.

Scouting reports during his career said this about his non-offense skills:

"lean but strong..."

"doesn't hit hard but gets the job done by pokechecking and interfering... "

"uses brains instead of brawn... won't knock anyone over with a check but gets the job done... adept penalty killer... doesn't allow himself to be intimidated by bigger players... "

"efficient defender... seldom makes giveaways or errant passes... checks his man well... difficult to beat one on one... "

so it looks like he was fairly efficient defensively but you're probably overstating his physicality. You're definitely overstating his fighting though. Dropyourgloves.com has him with 9 career fights.

I do agree that he deserved more calder consideration than he received.

anyway, as for the part that actually caught my eye - ice time. You said that he probably averaged 25-26 minutes per game. Estimates based on GF/GA suggest he was closer to 20.05 minutes a game in his career, peaking at 22.5 in the 1984 season.

I'm only telling you this to correct your estimate, not to downplay Persson. Getting top minutes is toughest of all to do when you are on a great team.

Here's why he was never an all-star: he was never one of his team's best two defensemen. It is impossible to be voted top-4 in the league if you're even 3rd-best on your own team, and impossible to get in the top-10 if you're even 4th on your own team. This is where he ranked in total and ES icetime per game among Isles defensemen in his career:

1978: 4th, 6th
1979: 3rd, 7th
1980: 6th, 6th
1981: 3rd, 6th
1982: 3rd, 7th
1983: 5th, 5th
1984: 2nd, 3rd
1985: 4th, 4th
1986: 4th, 6th

Now in terms of points scored (mostly on the PP), absolutely, he was their #2 defenseman. But in terms of how much Arbour put him out on the ice, he was a #3-6 guy throughout his career, depending on the year, and depending on whether you consider total icetime or ES icetime as a more appropriate determining factor.
Thanks a lot I appreciate the input. One question though is that total ice time or time per game. Because another negative which I did not mention was that he was brittle and always managed to miss 8-15 per season.
I also did overstate the physicality. I was only stating he was actually was willing to be physical not necessarily always able.
 
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seventieslord

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Thanks a lot I appreciate the input. One question though is that total ice time or time per game. Because another negative which I did not mention was that he was brittle and always managed to miss 8-15 per season.
I also did overstate the physicality. I was only stating he was actually was willing to be physical not necessarily always able.

Good question. That is based on per-game numbers, and in counting defensemen ahead of Persson in minutes I counted guys who played the full season. if there were two who played 30-50 games I would count them as one player.
 

TheMoreYouKnow

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Krupp also scored a Stanley Cup winning goal for Colorado vs Florida, in 3rd overtime period. That's what I remember him for, in addition to him being German. ;)
Today he is coaching the German national team.

Unfortunately, he's also remembered in Detroit as a terrible signing and a guy who did competitive dogsledding races while supposedly out with a back injury.
 

MJB Devils23*

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I'm just going to mention some players that aren't close to stars but that were big in their roles.

Joey Kocur
Mike Eagles
Ray Ferraro
Tony Amonte
Patrick Poulin
Ed Olczyk
Dallas Drake
Peter Zezel
Kenny Jonsson
Todd Gill
Calle Johansson
Guy Hebert
Mark Tinordi

I think Amonte was definitely a star player.
 

Bexlyspeed

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Claude LaPointe, Loved him when he was an Islanders, but he kind of drifted off once he went to the Flyers. he was a good team player and was one of the few that wanted to be on Long Island at the time
 

VanIslander

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Claude LaPointe, Loved him when he was an Islanders, but he kind of drifted off once he went to the Flyers. he was a good team player and was one of the few that wanted to be on Long Island at the time
The Isles have had a few overlooked quality players since the dynasty years. Claude Lapointe, Richard Park, Kenny Jonsson, Pat Flatley, :clap: all deserved more ink than they ever got. If only they had been surrounded by quality players that allowed them to shine where it matters most: In the playoffs, winning cups, establishing themselves as the all-time great role players they've shown themselves capable of being when they played on Long Island.
 

plusandminus

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The Isles have had a few overlooked quality players since the dynasty years. Claude Lapointe, Richard Park, Kenny Jonsson, Pat Flatley, :clap: all deserved more ink than they ever got. If only they had been surrounded by quality players that allowed them to shine where it matters most: In the playoffs, winning cups, establishing themselves as the all-time great role players they've shown themselves capable of being when they played on Long Island.

Kenny Jonsson was elected best defenceman of the tournament when Sweden won the Olympics in 2006. At the time, he played in the Swedish 2nd league. He, his brother Jörgen and Peter Forsberg are the only Swedes with two Olympic gold medals. He also made the All Star Team in the 2009 World Championship, as well as being elected best defenseman in world junior championship of 1994. In the NHL, he was on averaged -2 per season in the +/- stats (-1 if excluding his rookie season). He retired from the NHL at age 29, moving back to his Swedish hometown, being arguably the best defenceman in the Swedish leagues during 5 years. In his last 6 NHL seasons, he played 24:11 minutes per game.

How do the Islanders fans look upon him? Any Toronto fans remembering their views on him?
 

dennilfloss

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Wilfrid Paiement.

946 games played, 356 goals, 458 assists, 814 points, 1757 penalty minutes.

The guy was all heart, tough as nails, a real pest for the opposition and could score. We never hear about him but here are the numbers of a similar player whom we always hear about, for comparison, Wendel Clark:

793 games played, 330 goals, 234 assists, 564 points, 1690 penalty minutes.
 

HFpapi

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2001-2002-ish is when I became old enough to really start following the nhl religiously, at which time Forsberg-Naslund-Iginla-Bertuzzi were the superstars of the day. Someone from that era who I already believe is forgotten about in a historical sense, and will continue to become more so, is Glen Murray. Back to back 40 goal seasons at a time when it wasn't uncommon for only 3 or 4 players to hit that mark in a given season. He was the triggerman on what was one of the best lines in the nhl at the time with Thornton and Knuble. He was a boarderline superstar at the time.
 

begbeee

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2001-2002-ish is when I became old enough to really start following the nhl religiously, at which time Forsberg-Naslund-Iginla-Bertuzzi were the superstars of the day. Someone from that era who I already believe is forgotten about in a historical sense, and will continue to become more so, is Glen Murray. Back to back 40 goal seasons at a time when it wasn't uncommon for only 3 or 4 players to hit that mark in a given season. He was the triggerman on what was one of the best lines in the nhl at the time with Thornton and Knuble. He was a boarderline superstar at the time.
Borderline superstar? Dont get me wrong, Murray was a decent player, but if the Cheechoo was product of the Thornton then what was Murray?! Murray was solid 20+ goals scorer who caught the wave.. If Murray was superstar then what was Jason Allison? Allison's career is identical to dead puck era and his numbers are almost PPG. Murray is nowhere close to Allison and he played his prime in the same era.
 

BubbaBoot

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Borderline superstar? Dont get me wrong, Murray was a decent player, but if the Cheechoo was product of the Thornton then what was Murray?! Murray was solid 20+ goals scorer who caught the wave.. If Murray was superstar then what was Jason Allison? Allison's career is identical to dead puck era and his numbers are almost PPG. Murray is nowhere close to Allison and he played his prime in the same era.

Jason Allison was so underrated, probably because Bruins fans didn't want to remember the fact that he came over in the Adam Oates deal.....a slow skater but jeez he was next to impossible to knock of the puck and deadly within 20 feet of the goal. Injuries took their toll on him and he retired way too young.

Somebody mentioned Dallas Drake. A very good two-way 2nd/3rd line winger who got no press but I always noticed him whenever he played against the Bruins. Always wished we had him.

Bobby Lalonde probably would come up to about Zdeno Chara's waist if the stood side-by-side but he was a damn good skater and playmaker. Played 664 games over 11 yrs and scored 334 points....not bad for a guy who was listed at 5'5".....especially in comparison to a lot more heralded manly flops. All you would ever hear about him was his size and stature, never for the fact that he was still a pretty good player.

Dallas Smith was overshadowed because he was Bobby Orr's defensive partner but he was damn good d-man. Strong as a bull and just as tough, he was an all-star four years in a row and led the NHL in +/- one year....who do you think it was that would face the odd man breaks if Bobby Orr was caught down ice? Underrated, even by most in Boston.

Blaine Stoughton was a goal scorer....never really too good in his own zone but really, you hear next to nothing about a guy who had three 50+ and two 40+ goal seasons?

Somebody also mentioned Rick Middleton. He has had some press but you really don't know how good he was unless you saw him play. A magician with the puck on his stick, extremely agile on his skates and a lot stronger than many people could imagine.... coulda been a HoFer if he had been able to last a few more seasons, (and hired a good PR guy), even if they had been mediocre. 1005 games, 488 goals, (25 shorthanded), 988 points, +180....11 straight years of 20+ goals including one 50+ / four 40+ / three 30+ goal seasons. He also had playoff stats of 114 games / 45 goals / 100 points.....and a Lady Byng to boot.
 

BubbaBoot

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Esa Tikkanen is only talked about in agitator threads...he was actually very good until his legs stopped working.

Uwe Krupp was one of the best shut down guys in the league. All anyone remembers is that he is German.

Joel Otto. I like him even as a kid, and I am an Oilers fan. Very solid defensive center.

Darren Puppa. Is possibly the most underrated goalie ever.

Tough as nails as I remember too...really glad he was in the Western Conference.
 

C77

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No one seems to talk about Mark Pavelich. From a casual observer with his skill he could appear to be the best player on the ice. He had a few really good years for the Rangers and he seemed like a guy that the other team always had to account for because he was so quick....kind of like Briere in that way. I think the Rangers had some good teams then but like the rest of the league they had the unenviable task of trying to beat the Islanders.



(Sighs)...the game was so much better back then. :laugh:

The players (especially the goalies) were smaller, defensemen could actually shoot the puck without having three armor-clad players diving in front of it.
 

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