Players whose stupid antics overshadowed their ability as hockey players

Nick Hansen

Registered User
Sep 28, 2017
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First one I thought of was Matt Cooke. He was actually a pretty decent player, basically always good for 30 pts and as I recall it he was considered good defensively, did a lot of penalty killing I think. But the cowardly hits just made it hard for most (me too) to appreciate him as a player...

Who do you think of?
 

Dennis Bonvie

Registered User
Dec 29, 2007
29,201
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Connecticut
That was my first answer. I disagree with your second part, though. He still acts like an ass clown. He's been a star for many years now, yet he still pretends he needs to be a pest.

True, but his antics no longer overshadow his ability.
 

GMR

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Jul 27, 2013
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True, but his antics no longer overshadow his ability.
In some ways, it's worse now because he no longer needs to be Sean Avery or Ken Linseman. Neither of those players were ever one of the top forwards in the league. Star players don't need to lick the opposing players' faces.
 
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MadLuke

Registered User
Jan 18, 2011
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Marchand is a good question, sure everybody consider him a star and he played on the first line of Team Canada, it does not over shadow it at all, but does it cast some shadow still on it ?

But would he show up more in the best winger in the league pool answer (357 points in is last 297 games those 4 last season , +83, 40 is last 36 playoff games, obviously some of the best possession numbers and a part of arguably the best line in the league:
Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick
 

vadim sharifijanov

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Oct 10, 2007
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we’re squarely in the moment when marchand is best known being a really good player. because he’s doing it right now.

but i guess the question is 20 years from now, when he might be in the hall of fame, what will we remember marchand for?

will it be low bridges and licking guys? honestly i don’t know. i meant turgeon scored 1,300 points and he’s remembered best for being attacked by dale hunter. gary suter scored more pooints than any dman outside the hall and he wasn’t even that dirty of a player usually but he’s remembered for two bad hits.
 

kaiser matias

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Mar 22, 2004
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Theo Fleury.

His off-ice issues have become a major part of his identity, but he was a great player throughout the 1990s. He's the last Flame to score 100 points (in both 1990-91 and 1992-93), was part of the 1989 Stanley Cup team, and played on the 2002 Olympic gold medal team. But if you ask someone about him now, the first thoughts are certain to revolve around drugs, Graham James, and his 2009 comeback attempt (which I'll argue was more a publicity stunt for his book).
 

sr edler

gold is not reality
Mar 20, 2010
11,830
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gary suter scored more pooints than any dman outside the hall and he wasn’t even that dirty of a player usually but he’s remembered for two bad hits.

None of those were actual hits though. The Gretzky one at least technically was a hit, I guess, if we're stretching it, but cross checking someone in the face certainly isn't even close.
 

sr edler

gold is not reality
Mar 20, 2010
11,830
6,271
In some ways, it's worse now because he no longer needs to be Sean Avery or Ken Linseman. Neither of those players were ever one of the top forwards in the league. Star players don't need to lick the opposing players' faces.

Ken Linseman had 120 playoff points in 113 games. That's a player slightly better than Sean Avery.
 

MS

1%er
Mar 18, 2002
53,211
82,939
Vancouver, BC
First one I thought of was Matt Cooke. He was actually a pretty decent player, basically always good for 30 pts and as I recall it he was considered good defensively, did a lot of penalty killing I think. But the cowardly hits just made it hard for most (me too) to appreciate him as a player...

Who do you think of?

Matt Cooke is a strange case, because his career is divided into two halves.

1998-2004 he was a very popular Canuck who was a physical agitator type, but in the era where Scott Stevens was being celebrated for jumping into guys and knocking them out cold. Like, one of Canuck colour guy Tom Larcheid's signature phrases at the time was 'EVERYBODY LOVES THE COOKER!' which is hilariously ironic in retrospect. But he played for years without being especially singled out as a particularly dirty player.

Then post-2005 lockout, the whole concussion revolution happened and people's attitudes toward big blindside open-ice hits changed completely. They went from being super-awesome Rock'em Sock'em material that the NHL used for marketing into to cowardly cheapshots almost overnight. And Cooke ended up being the poster-villain for this change due to a couple hits he threw.
 

OgeeOgelthorpe

Baldina
Feb 29, 2020
16,993
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Matt Cooke is a strange case, because his career is divided into two halves.

1998-2004 he was a very popular Canuck who was a physical agitator type, but in the era where Scott Stevens was being celebrated for jumping into guys and knocking them out cold. Like, one of Canuck colour guy Tom Larcheid's signature phrases at the time was 'EVERYBODY LOVES THE COOKER!' which is hilariously ironic in retrospect. But he played for years without being especially singled out as a particularly dirty player.

Then post-2005 lockout, the whole concussion revolution happened and people's attitudes toward big blindside open-ice hits changed completely. They went from being super-awesome Rock'em Sock'em material that the NHL used for marketing into to cowardly cheapshots almost overnight. And Cooke ended up being the poster-villain for this change due to a couple hits he threw.

Cooke was always a cheapshot artist and dirtbag. It became less tolerated after the 2005 lockout because he refused to change his game and kept dishing out blindside hits and heaped on all kinds of other dirt. Lots of slewfoots, lots of elbows, crosschecks, and knee-on-knee contact. Oh yeah, then there's that time he stomped an Ottawa player's achilles...what was that player's name again?
It's amazing that he didn't get his ass kicked more often than he did.
 

a79krgm

Registered User
Jul 15, 2006
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White Bear Lake
www.northstarshockey.com
Eddie Shack …

Played on 6 teams. Was a high scoring winger in the Juniors. Converted to a checking forward. Took a lot of bad penalties that put him in dog house on several occasions. He was demoted to Rochester at the start of the season in '65, but comes back to the Leafs and scores a career high 26 goals. Not afraid to throw a head butt during a fight if needed. Involved in the infamous stick fight with Larry Zeidel of Philadelphia in '68
 

scott clam

Registered User
Sep 12, 2018
1,108
532
That was my first answer. I disagree with your second part, though. He still acts like an ass clown. He's been a star for many years now, yet he still pretends he needs to be a pest.
He's actually underrated as a star, because of his assclownery.
 
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Hoser

Registered User
Aug 7, 2005
1,846
403
Cooke was always a cheapshot artist and dirtbag.

Hear, hear.

Although the very first person I thought of, when I think of "players whose stupid antics overshadowed their ability", was Sean Avery. It kind of pains me to admit he was a talented player, although likely never a star of course, but he couldn't let his doucheyness get out of the way of his talent.
 

vadim sharifijanov

Registered User
Oct 10, 2007
28,565
15,911
Matt Cooke is a strange case, because his career is divided into two halves.

1998-2004 he was a very popular Canuck who was a physical agitator type, but in the era where Scott Stevens was being celebrated for jumping into guys and knocking them out cold. Like, one of Canuck colour guy Tom Larcheid's signature phrases at the time was 'EVERYBODY LOVES THE COOKER!' which is hilariously ironic in retrospect. But he played for years without being especially singled out as a particularly dirty player.

Then post-2005 lockout, the whole concussion revolution happened and people's attitudes toward big blindside open-ice hits changed completely. They went from being super-awesome Rock'em Sock'em material that the NHL used for marketing into to cowardly cheapshots almost overnight. And Cooke ended up being the poster-villain for this change due to a couple hits he threw.

Cooke was always a cheapshot artist and dirtbag. It became less tolerated after the 2005 lockout because he refused to change his game and kept dishing out blindside hits and heaped on all kinds of other dirt. Lots of slewfoots, lots of elbows, crosschecks, and knee-on-knee contact. Oh yeah, then there's that time he stomped an Ottawa player's achilles...what was that player's name again?
It's amazing that he didn't get his ass kicked more often than he did.

i think pre-lockout cooke also benefitted from jarkko ruutu being on the same team. jarkko had that annoying smile and wasn’t shy about going knee on knee, so by comparison cooke seemed like a more “honest” hitter.

cooke also was a hardworking guy, always was moving his feet, and had a few memorable stints in the top six due to injuries. after the moore hit, when cooke joined the naslund/morrison line, when you see 2004 cooke replacing 2004 bertuzzi sleepwalking his way through his big new contract, it was hard not to root for him.
 

MeHateHe

Registered User
Dec 24, 2006
2,401
2,725
Derek Sanderson. Won the Calder Trophy and had all-world talent. He could have been one of the best players in the league but he let the high life get the best of him. Didn't help that he didn't get along with Bobby Orr, either. Booze and drugs and partying with Playboy Bunnies left him sleeping on the street at a time when he might otherwise have been riding at the peak of his career. Turned his life around and became an agent, but what could have been with his playing career.

CBC Sports Online - Top 10 - Falling Down
 

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