Players Whose Offensive Statistics are Misleading

[Sonic Disturbance]

A lot of posters on HFBoards don't have the opportunity to watch players from every team play on a regular basis (myself included) so we tend to judge players, particularly forwards, from other teams by their offensive statistics and "reputation". What are some examples of players who have misleading offensive statistics for your team this year?

For the Leafs:

JVR has 11 goals and 12 assists in 27 games and is on pace for a career high in both goals and points. Yet he has been invisible in many games this year and has been a passenger on the first line, getting outplayed by Kessel and even Bozak for the most part. His 5 on 5 defensive game has also been lackluster. He played much better last year even though his PPG was lower.

On the flip slide, Kadri is scoring around the same pace as last year (~50 points) but has been absolutely tremendous this year. He has improved his defensive game by leaps and bounds, is getting better on faceoffs daily and is a possession monster. He's been good offensively too, it's just that he's gotten no PP time until recently and he's also been snakebitten. I would take this version of Kadri over the 44 points in 48 games Kadri of 2013 easily.

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[CMDEADLY]

Colin Wilson 12 pts in 27 games. While it may look like he has not put up much. He has been playing great. While the pt totals aren't there he is finally looking like a top 10 pick.

 

[Mathew Barzal]

The Sedins and Vrbata are all soft, slow and a complete liability on the ice at even strength. The only situation in which their skills are useful is on the PP, because the extra space allows them to use their cute little passes at the opponents blueline. They're in their mid 30's and it shows, big time.

 

[Nizdizzle]

A lot of posters on HFBoards don't have the opportunity to watch players from every team play on a regular basis (myself included) so we tend to judge players, particularly forwards, from other teams by their offensive statistics and "reputation". What are some examples of players who have misleading offensive statistics for your team this year?

For the Leafs:

JVR has 11 goals and 12 assists in 27 games and is on pace for a career high in both goals and points. Yet he has been invisible in many games this year and has been a passenger on the first line, getting outplayed by Kessel and even Bozak for the most part. His 5 on 5 defensive game has also been lackluster. He played much better last year even though his PPG was lower.

On the flip slide, Kadri is scoring around the same pace as last year (~50 points) but has been absolutely tremendous this year. He has improved his defensive game by leaps and bounds, is getting better on faceoffs daily and is a possession monster. He's been good offensively too, it's just that he's gotten no PP time until recently and he's also been snakebitten. I would take this version of Kadri over the 44 points in 48 games Kadri of 2013 easily.

Thats what I came here to say. Its crazy how little he has scored when I think he has been hands down our best forward all year.

 

[Sonic Disturbance]

The Sedins and Vrbata are all soft, slow and a complete liability on the ice at even strength. The only situation in which their skills are useful is on the PP, because the extra space allows them to use their cute little passes at the opponents blueline. They're in their mid 30's and it shows, big time.

Not sure if this is sarcasm or not but I've heard from other Canucks fans that the Sedins were having a resurgent season. Only 1/6 of Henrik's goals are on the PP and both their +/-'s are pretty good so they don't seem to be a liability 5 on 5 statistically. Vrbata I don't know much about except that he scored a beauty goal yesterday (terrible defense from Chris Phillips though).

 

[Bleeker]

Galchenyuk is on pace for 50 points but he look like a PPG player.
He improved so much offensively. He's way more patient with the puck and he now have this ability to slow down the game to create some highlight scoring chances like he did in juniors.
Now he just need to work on his Shot accuracy/finish(his biggest flaw) and he's gonna be this 80-85 points player we thought he'd be one day

 

[DL44]

Not sure if this is sarcasm or not but I've heard from other Canucks fans that the Sedins were having a resurgent season. Only 1/6 of Henrik's goals are on the PP and both their +/-'s are pretty good so they don't seem to be a liability 5 on 5 statistically. Vrbata I don't know much about except that he scored a beauty goal yesterday (terrible defense from Chris Phillips though).

They just haven't come thru over this last 3 game losing streak. A real bad one from them tonight... But yeah.. Otherwise they've been fine. A little rest, a little practice, going back home.. They'll be fine.

 

[icKx]

Nyquist -- 12G, 4A

His playmaking and passing are sharp as ever but guys simply aren't burying their chances.

 

[Virtanen18]

Not sure if this is sarcasm or not but I've heard from other Canucks fans that the Sedins were having a resurgent season. Only 1/6 of Henrik's goals are on the PP and both their +/-'s are pretty good so they don't seem to be a liability 5 on 5 statistically. Vrbata I don't know much about except that he scored a beauty goal yesterday (terrible defense from Chris Phillips though).

I wouldn't pay too much attention to that guy. He hates his own team.

I've admired the play of the Sedins and Vrbata. Great line. Sedins weren't playing this well at any point last year. If they're soft now, then they've been soft their whole careers (which is obviously not true).

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

Hemsky sucked last year with the sens and paid off the stat sheet guy to put him on every secondary assist so he'd get a pay day

 

[Evergreen]

Jake Voracek: his soaring point totals aren't a fluke. He looks dominant out there.

Wayne Simmonds: great PP numbers early in the year have padded his stats. Has been average at ES.

Steve Mason: he only has 5 wins, but he is the least of the Flyers' problems. Stole a win against LA when we were outshot almost 2-1.

RJ Umberger: numbers suck and so does he.

 

[Algernop Kreider]

Tanner Glass: 0G, 1A: He's played like he should have no points. His one assist was a bit of a fluky play, he just kind of whacked at the puck before Moore came in and buried it.

Kevin Klein: It's not really misleading, but he has 6 goals so far. His previous full-season career high was 4 goals. Also, he leads the team with 3 GWG.

Dan Boyle: 2G, 0A: He's been robbed quite a few times since his return.

 

[Mathew Barzal]

Not sure if this is sarcasm or not but I've heard from other Canucks fans that the Sedins were having a resurgent season. Only 1/6 of Henrik's goals are on the PP and both their +/-'s are pretty good so they don't seem to be a liability 5 on 5 statistically. Vrbata I don't know much about except that he scored a beauty goal yesterday (terrible defense from Chris Phillips though).

They were marque possession players at even strength not too long ago, but age has taken a little here and a little there from them. Vrbata possesses raw talent, but he plays a tentative forechecking game which relies on stick work rather than board play - counterintuitive to the Sedins style of play. The reason Burrows worked so well with them in their prime was because he was a forechecking monster. Persistent in a Gallagher-esque sense. The absence of this dimension to their line is obvious, and against teams that play them hard and anticipate their predictable passing plays they have no answer.

I guess the problem is the point I'm trying to argue isn't something that can be measured with empirical stats, at least I don't think it can (time spent in different zones five on five). So it's kind of moot if you watch highlights of them scoring.

 

[Sonic Disturbance]

They were marque possession players at even strength not too long ago, but age has taken a little here and a little there from them. Vrbata possesses raw talent, but he plays a tentative forechecking game which relies on stick work rather than board play - counterintuitive to the Sedins style of play. The reason Burrows worked so well with them in their prime was because he was a forechecking monster. Persistent in a Gallagher-esque sense. The absence of this dimension to their line is obvious, and against teams that play them hard and anticipate their predictable passing plays they have no answer.

I guess the problem is the point I'm trying to argue isn't something that can be measured with empirical stats, at least I don't think it can (time spent in different zones five on five). So it's kind of moot if you watch highlights of them scoring.

Ok, fair enough, and thanks for the detailed explanation.

Another guy I forgot on the Leafs is Clarkson, who has 8 goals. Despite being much better than last year (there's no way he could've been worse anyway), he is still often the 3rd best player on his line and fumbles passes, throws pucks to no-man's land, falls down, goes offside and takes dumb penalties. He has a decent shot and is good at tipping pucks though.

 

[DamonDRW]

Riley Sheahan for Detroit. A great two-way center in the making.

 

[Anchor Town*]

Riley Sheahan for Detroit. A great two-way center in the making.

On pace for 44 points and elite defensively, that's pretty much a 2nd line center already

 

[izzy]

The Sedins and Vrbata are all soft, slow and a complete liability on the ice at even strength. The only situation in which their skills are useful is on the PP, because the extra space allows them to use their cute little passes at the opponents blueline. They're in their mid 30's and it shows, big time.

Sedins have 52 points, 21 on the powerplay. Pretty similar to other players in the league who see powerplay time.

 

[Addison Rae]

The Sedins and Vrbata are all soft, slow and a complete liability on the ice at even strength. The only situation in which their skills are useful is on the PP, because the extra space allows them to use their cute little passes at the opponents blueline. They're in their mid 30's and it shows, big time.

One of the most uneducated and laughable posts I've seen in a while. The Sedins are dominating at 5 on 5 at every metric. They are facing other team best players and hammering them in terms of possession and goals for percent. Please, oh please don't comment on thing you know next to nothing about, thanks.

I saw your post above and it's even more full of crap, and missing a lot of context. Here are the Sedins possession numbers from a "few years ago" compared to now. In 2010/2011 the Sedins were around 12ish CorsiRel/60 minutes players which is extremely good, this year they are +14ish CorsiRel/60 minutes player. So, yes they're better possession players now, wait that's not all. They went from starting the most shifts in the offensive zone from any player in the league in 2010/2011 (70+ %) to being strength on strength players now (53%) not only that but their RelQoc has gone up significantly from then too went from ~.200 to ~.850. So the Sedins have gone from sheltered offensive threats to two of the most effective two-way players in hockey.

It's an absolute catastrophe that your post was one of the first in the thread, because it's horse crap that is the complete opposite of the truth.

 

[Sam Spade]

Riley Sheahan for Detroit. A great two-way center in the making.

I so want him if the Caps make a deal with the Wings involving Green.


I have two: Ovechkin is an even player this year, (so far) .

Taylor Hall's 8g 9a in 22 games is very dissapointing so far. What's worse is some games you don't notice him. That didnt happen a lot prior to this season. I really hope those numbers are misleading and he breaks out with a big month soon.

 

[Addison Rae]

I'd nominate Linden Vey from the Canucks, he gets hammered at even strength.

 

[ottawa]

This thread screams Tyler Johnson...he's 8th in the league in scoring lirl

 

[TT1]

galchenyuk pls put da puck in da net so your stats reflect your play

 

[detredWINgs]

On pace for 44 points and elite defensively, that's pretty much a 2nd line center already

Sheahan is not elite defensively. He's better than many in that regard but like hell has he reached elite status yet.

 

[detredWINgs]

Nyquist -- 12G, 4A

His playmaking and passing are sharp as ever but guys simply aren't burying their chances.

This is what I came in here to post. His playmaking this year has been filthy. I've lost track of how many nice feeds he's made that haven't earned him any points. It's pretty uncanny but I'm sure that'll change. Just a flukey thing so far.

 

[613Leafer]

On the Leafs, JVR, Bozak, and Kessel are a substantially less effective line than their point totals would suggest.

They're all close to PPG (23, 24, and 28 points respectively in 27 games), play on a team with an overall plus 13 goal differential, and yet two of them are minus players and one of them (Bozak) sits at 0 for +/-.

+/- isn't the best stat in the world, but you would generally expect the top scoring line on a POSITIVE goal differential team to be a + line. You can break it down more by looking at more advanced stats.

Out of 395 forwards this season that have played 100+ minutes, Bozak is 383rd, Kessel 390th, and JVR 392nd for shots against / 60 minutes. And it can't be blamed on zone starts of QoC, as neither of these are near the most difficult in the league for these players.

They're among the absolute worst lines defensively in the entire league, and given that other forwards on the same team have substantially better shots against stats, +/- stats, etc, you can't really blame it on the blueline.

On the flip side, as others have mentioned, guys like Kadri/Santorelli/Komarov have been arguably our best forwards this season. They put up fewer points, but are ultimately more effective 5 on 5.