Players who needed another great season to have a legitimate HHOF career

[Moose Head]

Tim Thomas. He has 2 fantastic seasons - but his longevity is way too lacking. He might get in anyways with his peak, but his lack of longevity hurts him. If instead of those 2 peak seasons with Vezina/high hart voting, he had a 3rd such Vezina season, I think it's enough to make him a slam dunk.

I think the bigger issue with Thomas getting in is that he made the league look bad.

 

[Zegras Zebra]

I am not sure how Perry gets in to be honest. There are lots of players - Mike Richards being another - who "won everything". It is a nice cherry on top to win at every level but doesn't prove greatness. Perry is easily behind Ryan Getzlaf in this argument for the HHOF and I think Getzlaf is in but not a slam dunk. His playoff resume is what will get him over the top. Perry on the other hand has 797 points in 1045 games. Getzlaf 1053 games and 965 points. He'll get 1,000 points. While he could have used another "elite" season in his arsenal I think his entire package will get him in. He had lots of deep playoff runs where he was very good. Plus he has 0.92 PPG, so that's not terribly far off from even a 1.0 PPG. I also think he probably was better than what his stats show, the eye test with Getzlaf was better than his stats. Perry had two good/great seasons, but there are gaps and that is it with him. Twice a 1st team all-star, but then there is a huge gap. Already has 0.76 PPG and that won't improve. Doesn't have anything to counter that with either. Even in the playoffs he is below Getzlaf. I can see him being the rare Hart winner who doesn't get in.

I agree with everything you said. Getzlaf is the superior player to Perry. The one gripe Ducks fans have always had with Getzlaf is he doesn't shoot enough. A couple of more goals a year and he is a lock for the HHOF in my opinion. Getzlaf plays in that Joe Thornton mold and I can definitely see him playing into his 40's as a veteran playmaker. The only issue is if the Ducks (or anywhere else he plays in the future) can surround him with the goal scoring talent he needs to succeed in that role. Overall, I'm not worried he won't get in.

Perry on the other hand you could make the strong argument that if Crosby doesn't get hurt Perry doesn't win his Hart in 2011. When comparing Perry to his peers he is about 100 points off of the best players of his era. For whatever reason he dropped of a cliff in 2016-17. I think he lost his edge which made him an elite player. He had a couple injuries during his prime which may have robbed him of an elite season. Also if the 2014-15 Ducks didn't choke against Chicago and they won the Stanley Cup when it was clearly Getzlaf and Perry's team that would help a lot as well, or of Dallas won this season. Overall another 80+ point season would really have helped his case. However back to my initial point the HHOF committee likes winners, and is not necessarily opposed to compilers. Recent inductees Kevin Lowe and Dave Andreychuk prove this point. The fact that he made 2 Canadian Olympic Teams probably helps his case with the knowledge of how elite a player has to be to make Team Canada multiple times in his career. Since Perry isn't too far behind his peers points wise I still think if he is in the right situation in Montreal or wherever he moves afterwards and can get 2-3 20 goal 50 point type of seasons and a solid playoff run he will get in eventually (10-20 years maybe). Is Perry still capable of producing like that I'm not sure, but I don't think its totally unreasonable that he gets in one day.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

would one more top three vezina season make barrasso undeniable? or are too many of his best years in the 80s and an extra big year would only make a difference if it was post-belfour?

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

I think the bigger issue with Thomas getting in is that he made the league look bad.

i think it’s both.

it took lindros, bure, and neely forever to get in and they all have so much more length on their resumes than tt.

but that said, you’re right: when the last memory ppl have of you is refusing to photo op with obama, for whatever reason, and then after you have eight years of the country completely losing its mind propelled by insane birther nonsense promulgated by he whom we shall never speak of again, it’ll take even more time to dissociate the two than it took lindros to wait out his much milder controversies, i’m afraid.

 

[Stephen]

I like the Markus Naslund option. I feel like he's one elite season short of a minimum Hall of Fame resume and maybe one year at the end of his career, which would have put him well over 400 goals and close to 1000 points if not over. That would have put him closer to Daniel Alfredsson territory.

 

[Professor What]

I like the Markus Naslund option. I feel like he's one elite season short of a minimum Hall of Fame resume and maybe one year at the end of his career, which would have put him well over 400 goals and close to 1000 points if not over. That would have put him closer to Daniel Alfredsson territory.

Considering that Alfredsson hasn't yet been elected, he's likely a good option for this thread. I cant help but wonder what might have been for him had the Senators won the Cup in 2007. Not only would he have been the captain of a Stanley Cup champion, but he likely would be a Conn Smythe winner too. Since he looks borderline right now, that sort of season on his resume would probably have put him over the line.

 

[Stephen]

Considering that Alfredsson hasn't yet been elected, he's likely a good option for this thread. I cant help but wonder what might have been for him had the Senators won the Cup in 2007. Not only would he have been the captain of a Stanley Cup champion, but he likely would be a Conn Smythe winner too. Since he looks borderline right now, that sort of season on his resume would probably have put him over the line.

I'm expecting Alfredsson to get into the Hall in a quiet year. If he had put up that career in Montreal or something I think he'd be in by now.

 

[GlitchMarner]

Alfredsson will eventually be inducted into the Hall... probably sooner rather than later.

 

[Professor What]

I think he'll eventually get in too, but a lack of hugely standout seasons has certainly delayed him. I'd be lying if I didn't say that I'm shocked at a couple of players that have gotten in ahead of him though, and I'll be danged if I think I can read the induction committee's thought process right now.

 

[kaiser matias]

Here's a few:

Bernie Nicholls. One of 5 players in hockey history to top 150 points in a season....and his next best are 112, and 100 point seasons. Big drop off (especially in such a high scoring era, where `100 points is more common). I think if he had one more such season, it's enough to get him in. He doesn't even need to hit quite as high as 150, but if he hit....~135+ points, I think it would power him through - even if it was playing with Gretzky (obviously, he wouldn't hit it without him). His playoffs are also quite lacking. OP says "...or even just one great playoff run". Maybe if Kings had won the cup in 1989 with Nichols being a 1-2 punch with Gretzky - even if he finished behind Gretzky for smythe - the combination of cup + great playoff run would be enough to propel him to HHOF, to go with his 150 point season.

Jose Theodore. He wins Hart, Vezina in 2002...and never again gets a single vezina vote in his career. If he had had a second great season with a second vezina (doesn't even need Hart, as I think that would make it slam dunk) - I think you at least have a conversation. This would be a tricky one - but a hart and 2 vezinas is a great trophy case. If he somehow had a 2nd hart, that's almost a slam dunk.

Corey Perry. Same idea as Theodore - only one great season with his hart. He does have more career longevity/accomplishments than Theodore of course, but at the top end it's very weak. If he had one more season with a hart, or Ross, or even a top 2 - combined with his overall career numbers, it gets him in. It's not impossible that he'll get into the Hall of Fame without that - but to me his case is very very weak. One more great season, and he's an easy in.

Jamie Benn. He won the Ross in 2015, and finished 3rd in hart the next year...but to me he needed one more true great season. Maybe an actual hart win, or at least another Ross. He's declining quickly, no cups yet and weak overall playoffs (not many playoff appearances). But hall of fame is largely based on peak, so give him one more truly great season with an award, and I think he'd get in.

Tim Thomas. He has 2 fantastic seasons - but his longevity is way too lacking. He might get in anyways with his peak, but his lack of longevity hurts him. If instead of those 2 peak seasons with Vezina/high hart voting, he had a 3rd such Vezina season, I think it's enough to make him a slam dunk.

I do wonder what a Stars Cup win this year would have done for both Perry and Benn.

Perry obviously had a smaller role on the team than others, but having his name on the Cup again would certainly help with the voters. Benn would have been a captain of a Cup winner, and had decent stats to back that up, and while that is probably not enough to get him in, puts him in the conversation for sure.

 

[Zegras Zebra]

A few interesting goalies have been brought up.

I think if Tim Thomas didn't sit out that season to build a bunker in Colorado its entirely possible he has another elite season, and possible a couple more good seasons after that. At his age sitting out a year probably hurt him a lot more than say a 28 year old goalie sitting out a year, thus he ruined his own path to the HHOF.

Tom Barrasso was mentioned above. He probably could have used another elite season with the Penguins, or at least he would have a better chance if the Penguins would have 3-peated in 1993, or won in 1996.

Speaking of 1996, would John Vanbiesbrouck be a good addition to this thread? If he beat out Richter for the starting job in New York in the early 1990's, or if he had a better regular season run with the Panthers would that be enough to push him over the edge and into the HHOF? Or does the Trevor Daley incident permanently keep a borderline candidate out even if he had another elite season?

Actually Mike Richter would also be a good candidate for this list. He doesn't get as much love on this forum as I would expect, would another great season have helped that? He doesn't have a Vezina but he was well respected in the 1990's.

I feel Curtis Joseph should already be in the HHOF, but if he was able to perform better with the 2002-03 Red Wings, beat Anaheim and beat New Jersey in the Finals would he already be in, or would he have to have out performed prime Hasek in the late 1990's with the Oilers or Leafs and win a Vezina to get in?

 

[David Bruce Banner]

Rick Martin could have used either another big scoring year... or a year where he excelled without Perreault.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

i feel like so many more borderline guys were a stanley cup away from the HHOF than one great season away.

middleton, roenick, cujo, alfredsson, i think all would be undeniable with a ring as a main guy.

probably even naslund, actually.

 

[Professor What]

i feel like so many more borderline guys were a stanley cup away from the HHOF than one great season away.

middleton, roenick, cujo, alfredsson, i think all would be undeniable with a ring as a main guy.

probably even naslund, actually.

Roenick might be rather similar to the Alfredsson scenario that I laid out earlier. Chelios would have been a strong contender for the Conn Smythe in 1992, but Roenick would have been in the running as well. I agree that in the cases you laid out, a Cup alone would probably be enough, but add a Conn Smythe too, and it becomes a totally open and shut case.

 

[Yozhik v tumane]

Considering that Alfredsson hasn't yet been elected, he's likely a good option for this thread. I cant help but wonder what might have been for him had the Senators won the Cup in 2007. Not only would he have been the captain of a Stanley Cup champion, but he likely would be a Conn Smythe winner too. Since he looks borderline right now, that sort of season on his resume would probably have put him over the line.

I feel like he would have been a first ballot inductee had he actually captained the Sens to the Cup in 2007: he would have had the “first European captain of a Cup winner” narrative, which Lidström earned in 2008, and having done so for a Canadian franchise would certainly have done him some favors as well... and I guess he was the surefire Conn Smythe-candidate had the Sens gone all the way, no?

It’s interesting, I think we’re not even talking about another elite season to finalize Alfie’s HOF case: we’re talking about three games! Now that’s a borderline hall of famer if I ever did see one.

 

[Professor What]

I feel like he would have been a first ballot inductee had he actually captained the Sens to the Cup in 2007: he would have had the “first European captain of a Cup winner” narrative, which Lidström earned in 2008, and having done so for a Canadian franchise would certainly have done him some favors as well... and I guess he was the surefire Conn Smythe-candidate had the Sens gone all the way, no?

It’s interesting, I think we’re not even talking about another elite season to finalize Alfie’s HOF case: we’re talking about three games! Now that’s a borderline hall of famer if I ever did see one.

Alfie was the only real choice for the Conn Smythe in the case of a Senators victory that year. He was absolutely brilliant in the playoffs, leading the playoffs in both goals and points, and was the model captain throughout the Eastern Conference playoffs. He seemed to lose his cool a bit during the Finals, but even then, he produced offensively.

When I made my original post about him earlier, I was definitely thinking about how close a call it was, but I really didn't think about it quite the way you put it. That's crazy to think that so small of a gap has, at the very least, meant that he's been delayed by several years in being inducted.

 

[LeBlondeDemon10]

Probably Steve Shutt and Clark Gillies...oh wait...

 

[Sadekuuro]

i feel like so many more borderline guys were a stanley cup away from the HHOF than one great season away.

middleton, roenick, cujo, alfredsson, i think all would be undeniable with a ring as a main guy.

probably even naslund, actually.

I think Naslund would have been in pretty easily if he hadn't lost his elite wrist shot -- another season or two of big totals would probably be enough for most people even if never figured out that whole winning thing.

 

[frontsfan2005]

Alfie has said in the past that if the Senators won the Cup in 2007, he would've retired. He had a tough start to the 06-07 season (lots of trade rumours, notably to LA for Craig Conroy...) and he wanted to go out on top.

If he does win the Cup and the Smythe in 2007 and he does retire, his career looks like this:

Regular season - 783 GP, 291 G, 467 A, 758 PTS, +125 - Winner of Calder in 96
Playoffs - 99 GP, 43 G, 37 A, 80 PTS, +3 - Winner of Smythe in 07, Stanley Cup Champion in 07, Led NHL in playoff goals in 07

Is that enough to make the HHOF?

Compared to his current career stats:

Regular season - 1246 GP, 444 G, 713 A, 1157 PTS, +155 - Winner of Calder in 96, Clancy in 12, Messier in 13
Playoffs - 124 GP, 51 G, 49 A, 100 PTS, +0 - Led NHL in playoff goals in 07

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

I think Naslund would have been in pretty easily if he hadn't lost his elite wrist shot -- another season or two of big totals would probably be enough for most people even if never figured out that whole winning thing.

without a cup, i think naslund needs both one more big year and either 500 or 1,000. so one more big year by itself (assuming he doesn't win an art ross or hart) isn't going to do it, because adding 30-odd points to one of his pre- or post-peak seasons still only gets him to 900. he also needs to pad on a couple 50 point seasons on either end of his career.

 

[Big Phil]

I think the bigger issue with Thomas getting in is that he made the league look bad.

People chose to do what Thomas did before and since him, so I don't think it is a big deal. If the thing you are talking about is the White House thing keep in mind there have been franchises that snubbed the White House. The media just made a big deal out of it with him at the time. No one who is judging Thomas' HHOF career will even think about that as a way to keep him out. I think he is on the outside anyway only because his prime is just too short.

I agree with everything you said. Getzlaf is the superior player to Perry. The one gripe Ducks fans have always had with Getzlaf is he doesn't shoot enough. A couple of more goals a year and he is a lock for the HHOF in my opinion. Getzlaf plays in that Joe Thornton mold and I can definitely see him playing into his 40's as a veteran playmaker. The only issue is if the Ducks (or anywhere else he plays in the future) can surround him with the goal scoring talent he needs to succeed in that role. Overall, I'm not worried he won't get in.

Perry on the other hand you could make the strong argument that if Crosby doesn't get hurt Perry doesn't win his Hart in 2011. When comparing Perry to his peers he is about 100 points off of the best players of his era. For whatever reason he dropped of a cliff in 2016-17. I think he lost his edge which made him an elite player. He had a couple injuries during his prime which may have robbed him of an elite season. Also if the 2014-15 Ducks didn't choke against Chicago and they won the Stanley Cup when it was clearly Getzlaf and Perry's team that would help a lot as well, or of Dallas won this season. Overall another 80+ point season would really have helped his case. However back to my initial point the HHOF committee likes winners, and is not necessarily opposed to compilers. Recent inductees Kevin Lowe and Dave Andreychuk prove this point. The fact that he made 2 Canadian Olympic Teams probably helps his case with the knowledge of how elite a player has to be to make Team Canada multiple times in his career. Since Perry isn't too far behind his peers points wise I still think if he is in the right situation in Montreal or wherever he moves afterwards and can get 2-3 20 goal 50 point type of seasons and a solid playoff run he will get in eventually (10-20 years maybe). Is Perry still capable of producing like that I'm not sure, but I don't think its totally unreasonable that he gets in one day.

Winning a Cup as a youngster won't always get you in. Think Theo Fleury. Getzlaf and Perry were in their 2nd year when they did this and while they contributed more than Fleury did in 1989 it still wasn't "their" team per se. Selanne was there, Giguere, Pronger and Niedermayer were there. Andy McDonald was putting up good numbers that year. But yeah, 2015 was their time to do it. That Hawks series was just a dagger. A couple of deep overtimes that could have changed the course of the series had it gone the Ducks' way.

Tom Barrasso was mentioned above. He probably could have used another elite season with the Penguins, or at least he would have a better chance if the Penguins would have 3-peated in 1993, or won in 1996.

While he could have used another good year under his belt I think Barrasso is kept out of the HHOF because of burned bridges. 5 times where you are top 3 in Vezina voting plus a couple of Cups. That should get you in. He won a lot of games too.

Speaking of 1996, would John Vanbiesbrouck be a good addition to this thread? If he beat out Richter for the starting job in New York in the early 1990's, or if he had a better regular season run with the Panthers would that be enough to push him over the edge and into the HHOF? Or does the Trevor Daley incident permanently keep a borderline candidate out even if he had another elite season?

I think Beezer is too well liked for people to remember him for that. He isn't in for the same reason a lot of goalies of his caliber aren't in. They missed another great year or two, or a Cup. Just thinking of things off the top of my head all of Ed Belfour, Doug Gilmour and Glenn Anderson did some off-ice things that in the case of the latter two probably kept them waiting longer, but still didn't keep them out. The difference for Beezer could very well have been had he won the Cup in 1996 with what would have been a slam dunk Conn Smythe.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

The difference for Beezer could very well have been had he won the Cup in 1996 with what would have been a slam dunk Conn Smythe.

if beezer could have won that series, he would 100% deserve to be in the hhof

 

[blundluntman]

A Vezina year puts Vanbeisbrouck in the m conversation

 

[Sadekuuro]

without a cup, i think naslund needs both one more big year and either 500 or 1,000. so one more big year by itself (assuming he doesn't win an art ross or hart) isn't going to do it, because adding 30-odd points to one of his pre- or post-peak seasons still only gets him to 900. he also needs to pad on a couple 50 point seasons on either end of his career.

Hmmm, that's true. I didn't look at career totals but you're right, he would probably still need to hit the big round numbers to punch his ticket. I suppose I was thinking that if he was still putting up big seasons, he would have also stuck around longer.

 

[VanIslander]

Fedorov.

Seriously. Take away his ONE great year and he has no Hart, no Pearson, no 1st team all star.

What would he be minus that ONE season. Equivalent to Claude Lemieux. Maybe.

Without that ONE season, Fedorov had one Selke and one runner-up Selke season. Much less than Lehtinen or Peca.

He has a Lemaire, Gilmour, Tikkanen playoff career. Awesome for a few years, granted. HHOF worthy? Take away ONE friggin' Fedorov season (on the most-loaded NHL team since a dynasty Habs) and.. uh, no.

Fedorov was UNDERwhelming the last eleven years of his career. I never bought the hype.

He is a one-hit (super)wonder in my books. And a playoff clutch performer on HHOF-stacked line-ups, like a number of non-HHOF members.

Anyone who thinks Fedorov is a top-100 player all time is myopic or delusional. There is no case for it when you scratch and sniff.

Granted, Fedorov had all-time great skating speed. Full stop. Wait, ... above average defensive responsibility (not elite skill). K.