Who knows? The game would have changed for sure. If Orr didnt come along, someone else would. The game changes all the time. Its not like Orr doesnt play and the defensmen play the same way they did as before till now.
Players were so horrible when Orr played!
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I don't think he would have. Bobby Orr is the reason that guys like Paul Coffey and Phil Housley were able to find work as defencemen in the NHL. If not for Orr, they would have likely been converted to forward.
What made Orr special as a defenceman was that he was so dominant and creative offensively, yet he played tough, he was physical, he backchecked and he blocked shots.
Coffey's a unique player in league history. But he doesn't strike me as that type's who's in that special class who could outright change the direction of the game itself. Coffey as we knew him would have never had an NHL defenceman job if not for Orr. Coffey would have been a forward. The arrival and the dominance of Bobby Orr was what gave GMs the confidence to have rushing defencemen who jumped into the play.
There were a lot of really talented defencemen before Orr who would have put up much bigger numbers if they would have been encouraged to be involved offensively.
Nalyd Psycho
Registered User
If I'm not msitaken, growing up most coaches wanted Coffey to play forward, but Coffey insisted on defence. Why? Because he wanted to be like Bobby Orr. No Orr, and he's one of the best wingers of the 80's.
Things would be different, but not in the way we know them to be different.
Things would be different, but not in the way we know them to be different.
ChrisKreider20
But y u mad?
The only way to do any justice to this argument is to assume that eras cannot be compared. Orr was an elite player in comparison to the players he played with just like Neidermayer is for instance, elite amongst his fellow players.
Clearly hockey players are much better on the whole... same as in every sport. Of course most realize the players back then weren't as good - it's obviouse. Same reason why Olympic records are falling all the time, sports heroes of the past were great and all, but obviously did not perform as well as the athletes now.
But the reason they are better now is because of things like cross-training, better diets, more money on coaching etc. all things that guys like Orr didn't have as well. Give him the same advantages as todays players have, and he'd still be great - even compared to todays players.
But the reason they are better now is because of things like cross-training, better diets, more money on coaching etc. all things that guys like Orr didn't have as well. Give him the same advantages as todays players have, and he'd still be great - even compared to todays players.
For my money Coffey was a 4th forward and not underrated defensively as some claim. On most teams he's a liability as a defenseman but on Edmonton he fit right in,defense be damned we got firepower and clutch goaltending.
I thought it was something like "I'm glad I won the Norris Trophy now, because in a few years it will be renamed the Bobby Orr trophy."
Its always the same story, I remember 6 or 7 years ago someone start a thread about how at that moment hockey player were the best of all time, but when look closely guy like Bourque, Stevens, leetch, Coffey, Stevens, Chelios even all close of 40y still the cream of defenseman, so after all the '80 wasn't that weak .
IMO we can say the same about all area of hockey.
IMO we can say the same about all area of hockey.
pappyline
Registered User
I disagree that players of Orr's vintage are not as good as players of today. Do you really think Orr would be better because of more money on coaching,?Do you really think cross training methods of today would make Bobby Hull & Tim Horton stronger? Do you really think the diet of the 60;s & 70;s was worse than today? I think you could take guys like Orr, Howe & Hull at their prime, drop them in todays game & they would easily dominate.
MXD
Original #4
- Oct 27, 2005
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This said, guys like Reijo Ruotsalainen, Lennard Svedberg and (to a lesser extent) Lars-Erik Sjoberg would still have had a career... And some teams in the NHL -- or even the WHA -- would have taken the risk to go for them.
And there were guys who had such numbers -- you know them as much as I do -- but they were really old-timers, guys who were Rovers, then D-Mens. With some exceptions, though -- Ebbie Goodfellow and Tom Anderson comes to mind -- as guys who were able to put up great numbers while playing defense. But Goodfellow's numbers aren't even in the same stratosphere than Anderson's ones, let alone Orr's ones...
Nalyd Psycho
Registered User
Trottier
Very Random
I'm not one to debate if this era's players are better trained, bigger, ya-da-ya-da than were those who came before them.
However, the generalization that "players" back in Orr's era were so horrible or words to that effect are lazy, disrespectful and plain wrong.
Let's see. During the period of 1966-1978, Orr's career, roughyl speaking, such horrible players as Bobby Clarke, Bryan Trottier, Marcell Dionne, Guy Lafleur, and Bobby Hull, just to name a few, all toiled. All Hall of Famers. All among the greatest this game has ever seen.
To read some geniuses generalize, and categorize these players as anything other than great - then and now - is insufferable.
However, the generalization that "players" back in Orr's era were so horrible or words to that effect are lazy, disrespectful and plain wrong.
Let's see. During the period of 1966-1978, Orr's career, roughyl speaking, such horrible players as Bobby Clarke, Bryan Trottier, Marcell Dionne, Guy Lafleur, and Bobby Hull, just to name a few, all toiled. All Hall of Famers. All among the greatest this game has ever seen.
To read some geniuses generalize, and categorize these players as anything other than great - then and now - is insufferable.
Hunter Gathers
The Crown
C'mon, Trottier. You know damn well that those old fogies couldn't do anything today. Even if they were given the same new equipment. Hockey just wasn't "hockey" back then.
C'mon, Trottier. You know damn well that those old fogies couldn't do anything today. Even if they were given the same new equipment. Hockey just wasn't "hockey" back then.
It's just as likely that some guys today could not have played back then.
By his own admittion, Coffey would have never played the way he did without the influence of Bobby Orr! Orr was the reason Coffey even started playing, and because he quickly became a good skater, he tried to copy Orr. Had there been no Orr, there would have been no Leetch, Coffey, Neidermeyer, Bourque, etc. They would have had no one to emulate, and coaches of their childhood era certainly would not have let them rush the puck with impunity if the greatest player of all-time wasn't doing it at the highest level (the NHL) quite successfully.
Albert Einstein was sooooo overrated!!! He doesn't deserve to be considered one of the best scientists of all-time. The scientists today know more than he did, therefore they're better. If one of those guys were around 70 years ago, they would've easily accomplished everything he did a lot quicker.
If Einstein was around today, he wouldn't even know how to use a computer.
Do you guys see how stupid the argument is?
LOL, wow, what a coincidence, I said exactly what you said to some moron who told me once that Babe Ruth was nothing special "because he couldn't play Major League Baseball today."
Trottier
Very Random
Sens Rule
Registered User
- Sep 22, 2005
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Personally, I think hockey fans were clearly superior in Orr's era than they are today.
There was no internet and message boards then. How could those fans compete with the new equipment of modern fans? I mean seriously many people did not even have color TV's back then. Old time fans wouldn't even know how to work a remote control let alone watch 2 games at once in picture in picture while surfing the scores on NHL.com and posting on HFboards.
Personally, I think hockey fans were clearly superior in Orr's era than they are today.
I can say with absolute certainty that the Bruins interest in the Boston area now, rivals that of soccer.Pitiful teams equal pitiful interest.
It's not a debate. Bobby Orr is the best all around hockey player that has ever played the game. It's a consensus-not a slam dunk, but a consensus. Who ever puts Coffey or Neidermayer in the conversation of best ever doesn't know hockey very well. Overall the skill level is higher in today's game because of training and equipment. Orr was way ahead of his time in every way. A once in a lifetime player.
BackToTheBrierePatch
Nope not today.
problem is Coffey had no idea what defense was, Orr on the other hand one a Norris trophy or 2
problem is Coffey had no idea what defense was, Orr on the other hand one a Norris trophy or 2
Coffey had 3...
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