Players or Sweaters

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Sotnos

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Jul 8, 2002
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Hockee said:
But thanks for making a ridiculous assumption.
You'll notice I didn't say it in my first post (because you never can tell, apparently local team loyalty isn't an issue for some people) but after how you jumped to the defense of the Coyotes, it's certainly not a ridiculous assumption. What's ridiculous are the assumptions you're making about southern markets & the Detroit market when it's obvious you haven't got a clue what you're talking about.

Besides that, the league can do whatever it wants. If it has to pay, it can pay.
With what?
Most likely though, the league will do something like what MLB did with the Marlins and Expos. Look into it.
Looking into it is about as far as it's going to get.
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Boltsfan2029 said:
Not a bad idea for Davidson? I think he might disagree -- moving the Lightning out of Tampa means Mr. Davidson loses the Ice Palace (er, Times Forum). It's one of the most successful entertainment venues of its type in the country. I somehow don't think he'd consider that a particularly good idea or smart business move.
True, and that's not to mention the hefty fine that would be imposed under the team's new agreement with the county. Not that he can't afford it, but he didn't get to be a billionaire by throwing money away.

I'll behave myself like I'm supposed to and bow out of this discussion now. :)
 

mr gib

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Sep 19, 2004
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Baradin said:
As a Die Hard Flames Fan and a die hard hold over from the Battle of Alberta Days I can tell you NO true Hockey fan of either of those teams would be able to stomach such a move. Hell the rivalry went so deep that a true hatred of eachother's cities has developed.
no kidding - wash your mouth out -
 

Jag68Sid87

Sullivan gots to go!
Oct 1, 2003
35,584
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In response to the original question in the thread, I think during the 1980's it was pretty easy to root for individual players, or start rooting for teams based on individual players. I admit that I became a Kings fan because of the Gretzky trade. Teams were shaped by the superstars in their lineup, guys racking up well over 100 points yearly. Or 50 goals yearly. Or both. Heck, at times you could divide up fan bases solely on the question of who's better, Gretzky or Lemieux. But, if you wanted your own team to root for, there was Hawerchuk in Winnipeg, Savard in Chicago, LaFontaine on Long Island (later Buffalo), Francis in Hartford...everywhere you turned, it seemed a superstar was leading an NHL team. Even if you were a traditional hockey fan and rooted for one team and one team only, chances are you either had a great player or two to root for or a collection of greatness (Boston Bruins, Philadelphia Flyers, Calgary Flames of the 1980s could all fall under that category). Hel, even when teams sucked they still gave their fans loads of entertainment value (remember the Maple Leafs of the Doug Carpenter era? How exciting were they!).

My point is, back when records were being re-written and stats becoming more and more prevalent in the NHL, I think the sweater wasn't nearly as important. Oh sure, Calgary-Edmonton or Montreal-Quebec were rivalries that can still be matched by precious few today. But, who wouldn't have liked watching a matchup between the high-flying Oilers and high-flying Nordiques back in the 80s? Also, back then hockey pools were all the rage. Remember when Gretzky's goals and assists were separated, because together it would be impossible to beat? Lemieux's as well. Even though they've evolved into far more sophisticated entities nowadays (fantasy leagues online, keeper leagues, a wide variety of stats, rotisserie, etc.), it's just not nearly as entertaining in hockey right now because you are probably not going to ice a fantasy team with either A) a 100-point man or B) a 50-goal scorer. So, while it is more challenging nowadays, I would argue that it's just not as much fun.

So, what do we have to hang our hats on these days, if not for the sheer numbers the games offer? Rivalries. Sweaters. Leafs-Habs. Oilers-Flames, still. Rangers-Islanders. Sens-Leafs. Avalanche-Red Wings, etc. And the biggest burgeoning rivalry of them all, which figures to get bigger and bigger and bigger in the next little while...Canucks-Avs.

Personally, even though I'm pro-owner in this nasty labor dispute, I'd love to see a return to a league that featured a myriad of superstars. Guys piling up numbers...not just the guys with masks on, either. Opening up the game so that we can really see how talented these guys really are.

At least if that were the case, you could almost make a strong argument for an $11 million salary. Instead, with nobody even capable of reaching 100 points or 50 goals (benchmarks that are still extremely fresh in the minds of MOST hockey fans today), those salaries are laughable. Fuhgetaboutit.
 
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Hockee

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Feb 22, 2005
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Sotnos said:
You'll notice I didn't say it in my first post (because you never can tell, apparently local team loyalty isn't an issue for some people) but after how you jumped to the defense of the Coyotes, it's certainly not a ridiculous assumption. What's ridiculous are the assumptions you're making about southern markets & the Detroit market when it's obvious you haven't got a clue what you're talking about.

Having worked personally for Illitch, Davidson, Monaghan and Karmanos, I think I know a little something about them. Having grown up in Detroit, I know a little something about the market. Having spent my college career in Columbus, I know a little something about the logistics of the rivalry between Illitch and Karmanos (if you don't know what I am talking about, look it up...suffice it to say that Raleigh was Karmanos' 4th choice).

And I didn't defend the Coyotes at all. I don't know what the hell you are talking about. I simply said that they have support. They do. They have a strong fan base, and Gretzky has strong support from the league. And with good reason. Every team south of St Louis owes its existence to Gretzky.
 

me2

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Jun 28, 2002
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MOEBEAGLE said:
In reponse to you totally blant pro-management stand, I have just one thing to say: If that european league gets going and I hope it dose, It will be the NHL owners that will be up the creek without a paddle. They will own worthless franchises and all of hockey in north america will become a feeder system for the new league in europe. That would be the best thing that happens to hockey because the people of north america ( including canada ) do not support the game and should LOSE IT. Let tet the fans that support it have it and the other so called fan watch something else like curling. :joker:


I hope it gets going too. 6-12 teams paying less than the NHL but more than SEL or Swiss league. Fantastic, watching Goodenow explain to the 500 players that used to have NHL why working at McDonalds is career advancement.
 

Fletch

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Feb 27, 2002
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I'd root for a team...

but I don't know if I'd root for a league that's inferior in all respects to other leagues around the world, and knowing full-well that the best hockey players in the world are not playing in the league. Would I, as a Rangers fan, pay $1,700 per year for a crappier product than I've seen in the last 7 years, even if they may actually win? Most likely know. I have many other uses for $1,700. Just like I don't go to Chelsea Piers in New York to watch pick-up games.
 

se7en*

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Hockee said:
I would also look at combining the Flames and Oilers if it works out economically.

No, no, no, no NO! Why not combine the Isles and Rangers? Or the Bruins and Habs? Why do people think this is a good idea?? :shakehead
 
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