Players Going to Europe in 2004-2005

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Dr.Sens(e)

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Ville Isopää said:
As I see it, there's no reason why we should make any changes to the way it's been done in the previous years. Keep the same deadline and remove the players that have signed on for europe without a lockout-clause.

The difference is, players knew the lockout was coming and many signed deals in Europe recognizing the risk of staying on in North America. And it is too complicated to get into whether a player 'was going to sign in Europe anyway". If there was no expected lock-out, it was possible Forsberg as an example, would have stayed in Colorado. And some had 'out clauses' if the lockout ended (and some did not). The Admin Team simply can't audit this on a player by player basis.

So basically, all players will be still on the HFNHL roster - even Forsberg (from what I understand). If you don't want the player on your roster, simply waive them, as they will most likely get picked up (worst case, you just pay 10% of their salary in the minors).
 

HFNHL Red Wings

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Ville Isopää said:
As I see it, there's no reason why we should make any changes to the way it's been done in the previous years. Keep the same deadline and remove the players that have signed on for europe without a lockout-clause.

To Ville's point I could have sworn it had been decided along time ago that we were basically going to use the original deadline. Nick's original list was for players that declared they were going well before there was any certainty of a lockout and there were players who signed full season contracts for Europe well in advance of the October 1st date. To avoid the muddy waters of who was only going to Europe to "stay in shape" we were excluding players signing European contracts pre-Oct 1st that had escape conditions and/or short term contracts (ie there was alot of those pre-Oct 1st Euro League signings that were only for X games, some as short as 6 games)
 

Dr.Sens(e)

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HFNHL Red Wings said:
To Ville's point I could have sworn it had been decided along time ago that we were basically going to use the original deadline. Nick's original list was for players that declared they were going well before there was any certainty of a lockout and there were players who signed full season contracts for Europe well in advance of the October 1st date. To avoid the muddy waters of who was only going to Europe to "stay in shape" we were excluding players signing European contracts pre-Oct 1st that had escape conditions and/or short term contracts (ie there was alot of those pre-Oct 1st Euro League signings that were only for X games, some as short as 6 games)

That was the general idea at one point, but the lists became so muddied it has seemingly become much too difficult to keep track of who should was committed to "Europe", and who was not. If we had a definitive list from some established and reputable source, it is still open for discussion I suppose.

But as an example, Nolan Baumgartner supposedly signed and committed to play in Europe for the entire year (he was on a committed list a while back), and a month later - without even the lock-out ending - he simply returned home to play in Manitoba. Clearly he was not committed and had an out to come back, despite the fact his contract was supposedly a one year commitment.
 

Ville Isopaa

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Dr.Sens(e) said:
That was the general idea at one point, but the lists became so muddied it has seemingly become much too difficult to keep track of who should was committed to "Europe", and who was not. If we had a definitive list from some established and reputable source, it is still open for discussion I suppose.

But as an example, Nolan Baumgartner supposedly signed and committed to play in Europe for the entire year (he was on a committed list a while back), and a month later - without even the lock-out ending - he simply returned home to play in Manitoba. Clearly he was not committed and had an out to come back, despite the fact his contract was supposedly a one year commitment.

So this means that even if they signed a multi-year, no-clause deal during the summer they stay in the HFNHL? (ex. Tommy Salo, Arvedsson, MÃ¥rtensson, etc.)

It's not that hard to see who signed what type of deal. As of now we know who stayed and who went back to NA, so that uncertainty is gone. The list and the players mentioned in this thread probably include pretty much all of the players who have signed on for full seasons. To make a double check on them shouldn't be that hard. I could do it if needed.
 

Dryden

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Ville Isopää said:
So this means that even if they signed a multi-year, no-clause deal during the summer they stay in the HFNHL? (ex. Tommy Salo, Arvedsson, MÃ¥rtensson, etc.)

It's not that hard to see who signed what type of deal. As of now we know who stayed and who went back to NA, so that uncertainty is gone. The list and the players mentioned in this thread probably include pretty much all of the players who have signed on for full seasons. To make a double check on them shouldn't be that hard. I could do it if needed.

Arvedsson retired
 

Dr.Sens(e)

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Well, players who retired are retired. That doesn't change.

As to the date, I'll e-mail Matt as to how he wants to proceed. But in the end, we simply can't use the 'players playing in Europe right now' approach. I know players like Salo committed to Europe immediately following the end of hte season, so perhaps that is different.
 

HFNHL Commish

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I really don't want to make too big a deal of this...

I was always under the impression that the number of remotely noteworthy players that had iron-clad, unescapable contracts to play in Europe was minimal. I can't speak to Nolan Baumgartner's situation, but players like Salo, Hedberg, Renberg, and Morozov - I'm pretty sure that those guys signed the kind of deals where IIHF rules would prohibit them from returning to the NHL at any point prior to this coming summer.

If someone (Ville?) thinks they can put together what should be a relatively short list of players that this set of circumstances applies to, I say let him. If there's any question as to whether or not a player on this list BELONGS on this list, then the player is eligible for the 2004-05 HFNHL season by default.

Sound fair enough? Ville, are you up to the task?

Piss on Bettman and Goodenow.
 

Ville Isopaa

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HFNHL Commish said:
I really don't want to make too big a deal of this...

I was always under the impression that the number of remotely noteworthy players that had iron-clad, unescapable contracts to play in Europe was minimal. I can't speak to Nolan Baumgartner's situation, but players like Salo, Hedberg, Renberg, and Morozov - I'm pretty sure that those guys signed the kind of deals where IIHF rules would prohibit them from returning to the NHL at any point prior to this coming summer.

If someone (Ville?) thinks they can put together what should be a relatively short list of players that this set of circumstances applies to, I say let him. If there's any question as to whether or not a player on this list BELONGS on this list, then the player is eligible for the 2004-05 HFNHL season by default.

Sound fair enough? Ville, are you up to the task?

Piss on Bettman and Goodenow.

I think I should be able to have it done early next week. Do I have a deadline?
 

HFNHL Commish

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Dryden, I haven't been living in a hole for the last six months. I know that several hundred NHL players are in Europe. However, if we want to get this season in, we all have to be willing to make a few compromises...which is why players with any doubts surrounding their eligibility WILL BE ELIGIBLE for the 2004-05 HFNHL season.

Ville - no deadline, just get it done as soon as you can. If a player's eligibility is in question (someone like Brandon Reid, for example), DO NOT include him on the list.
 

Ville Isopaa

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It took a little bit longer due to some stuff comming up and some of the guys were harder to find some info on. Where should I send the list? Or should I jst post it here in the thread?

I limited it to the players that are on the rosters, so guys like Forsberg, MÃ¥rtensson, Morozov are not included as they've already been removed from the Feb 20th roster file.

The list has 43 players on it, most are farm or depth players. Florida has 5 and Toronto 4 players on the list. Atlanta and Tampa Bay both have 3 players, 10 teams have 2 players, 7 teams have one and the rest have no players on the list.
 

Ohio Jones

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Great work! Thanks, Ville. :handclap:

I'm sure it would b appreciated by the other GMs if you could post it here. For the sake of Dion's sanity, it would probably be useful to send him a copy directly as well.
 

Ville Isopaa

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Players Going To Europe for 2004-05
----------------------------------------

Team - Player, Euro team (date)

ATL - Dan Corso, Kassel, Germany (August 8th)
ATL - Andreas Dackell, Brynäs IF, Sweden (May 14th)
ATL - Johan Hedberg, Leksand Stars, Sweden (August 2nd)
CGY - Stephen Guolla, Kloten Flyers (April 21st)
CHI - Magnus Arvedsson, Färjestad, Sweden (August 7th)
CHI - Mariusz Czerkawski, Djurgården IF, Sweden (September 9th)
COL - Pavel Rosa, Dynamo Moskva, Russia (May 4th)
COL - Ivan Ciernik, EHC Wolfsburg, Germany (May 3rd)
EDM - Garth Snow, St.Petersburg SKA, Russia (August 17th)
FLA - Matt Davidson, Düsseldorf EG, Germany (March 18th)
FLA - Rob Zamuner, ECH Basel (August 23rd)
FLA - Petr Buzek, Sparta Praha, Czech (May 9th)
FLA - John Tripp, Adler Mannheim (April 19th)
FLA - Robert Reichel, HC Chemopetrol Litvinov, Czech (August 19th)
LA - Steve Kelly, Adler Mannheim, Germany (March 25th)
MIN - Andrei Nikolishin, CSKA Moscow, Russia (June 6th)
MIN - Bryan Muir, Modo Hockey, Sweden (July 26th)
MON - Derrick Walser, Eisbären Berlin, Germany (May 12th)
MON - Roman Tvrdon, Nottingham Panthers, England (July 12th)
NSH - Patrick Boileau, HC Lausanne, Switzerland (May 13th)
NSH - Jason Krog, Villach, Autria (August 26th)
NYI - Kiril Safronov, Ak Bars Kazañ, Russia (June 13th)
NYR - Brian Swanson, Kassel Huskies, Germany (April 10th)
NYR - Andreas Johansson, HC Geneve-Servette (August 19th)
OTT - Viktor Kozlov, Lada Togliatti, Russia (July 12th)
OTT - Josh Holden, HPK, Finland (September 19th)
PHI - Dainius Zubrus, Lada Togliatti, Russia (July 1st)
PHX - Igor Korolev, Lokomotiv Yaroslavl, Russia (July 13th)
PIT - Zdenek Kutlak, Karlovy Vary, Czech (May 5th)
SJ - Denis Shvidki, Lokomotiv Yaroslavl, Russia (July 7th)
STL - Robert Dome, Södertälje, Sweden (May 5th)
STL - Landon Wilson, Blues Espoo, Finland (June 23rd)
TB - Shawn Heins, Eisbären Berlin, Germany (July 16th)
TB - Espen Knutsen, Djurgården, Seden (May 9th)
TB - Jaroslav Bednar, Avangard, Russia (May 9th)
TOR - Peter Smrek, Wolfsburg, Germany (May 6th)
TOR - Randy Robitaille, ZSC Lions, Switzerland (April 27th)
TOR - Christian Laflamme, Kassel Huskies (May 15th)
TOR - Jonas Andersson, Södertälje SK, Sweden (May 26th)
VAN - Greg Classen, Ässät, Finland (July 23rd)
VAN - Pascal Trépanier, Nürnberg Ice Tigers, Germany (June 8th)
WSH - Mattias Timander, MoDo Hockey, Sweden (June 3rd)
WSH - Pavel Trnka, HC Plzen, Czech (August 2nd)
 

Ville Isopaa

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I guess that the teams who were low on players are the ones who will be effected the most and will have to aquire a few players to fill up the rosters. I'm thinking mostly of ATL, NYR and WSH who are under the minimum number of roster players.
 

HFNHL Red Wings

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List looks solid Ville. Only one that appears to be missing is Salo.
 

Dr.Sens(e)

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HFNHL Commish said:
Actually, it would appear that Snow had an out, as he has left SKA St. Petersburg...

http://tsf.waymoresports.thestar.com/thestar/hockey/player.cgi?0330

That's the whole problem - several players with one-way contracts have returned already. I can only imagine how many would have left if the season hadn't been cancelled.

That said, I'm fine with the list. I'd just leave it to the GM of the player to do the research to demonstrate any player on that list 'would have' come back. Not a perfect solution, but better than anything else I can think of.
 

HFNHL Red Wings

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Let me say up front I'm in agreement with letting GM's prove that they should not be on the list and leave it at that.

Ville has compiled a list of players that appear to have signed, in good faith, commitments to play for a Euro team for the full season that had nothing to do with the lockout. To the extent that is wrong they can be removed but I would not consider someone going AWOL from their team or leaving because of homesickness as valid IMO. I'm not even sure in such cases that the player, under IIHF rules, would be allowed to play in the NHL that season.

Likewise we never take players off the roster that return to Europe from the NHL later in the season or vice versa add a player back that leaves Europe to return to the NHL after October 1st so why would it be different here?

Anyway I don't care much either way so I'll drop it ;)

On a sidenote it sound's like Snow was actually having a good year in Europe including back to back shutout's in November.
 

Pandastyle

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HFNHL Commish said:
Actually, it would appear that Snow had an out, as he has left SKA St. Petersburg...

http://tsf.waymoresports.thestar.com/thestar/hockey/player.cgi?0330


Yeah, that's why I was curious cause I checked out that Sportsline site listed in this thread earlier and noticed that Snow was no longer on it. So if he left his Russian team then the contract must not have been that binding. =)

-Andy, EDM GM
 
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