Players Counter with $49m Cap

[Gary]

What's the over/under on how many times the "and that's my final offer" cliche is going to be used?

btw, this reminds me of when my father was buying a truck last week. The dealer was trying to sell him a service plan, so my father said

"hmm, can I think about it, or do you need a decision now?"
"I'm sorry, but we really need a decision now"
"Well, in that case, I guess I'll just pass"
"ok, I'll tell you what, hang on to the brochure, and if you change your mind in the next week or so, give us a call"

Hey the NHLPA and NHL have the same idea just a difference in #'s...Why surrender now? The art of negotiating is trying to squeeze as much as possible out of the other opponent...that's all that is going on here. Gary got his cap, Bob escaped linkage, there's a deal in PRINCIPLE...they just need a good ***** fest to round out the numbers by the sounds of things

 

[snepsts27]

Well, now this is interesting. At least they are getting closer.

I would think that they would stop negotiating through the media at this point a call each other to nail it down. they have to be close enough to say $45 million cap, with luxury tax over 40 mill.

The NHLPA now has a bottom cap of 25 mill (NHL at 32 mill) so if you look at the top and bottom caps, you see something interesting....

NHLPA proposal is 25*-49 million dollar salaries per team (median is 37 mil)

NHL proposal is 32-42 million dollar salaries (median is 37mil)

 

[Member 23807]

I'm going on the record as saying that the NHLPA has made a serious miscalculation here. The league will in no way shape or form agree to the $49M figure and I don't even believe the league will counter with anything more than they already have.

I think it has become quite clear that the NHLPA is getting desperate. Huge miscalculation here on the NHLPA's part... season is over unless they smart'en up.

PJStyles

 

[Jobu]

Wrong. $6,500,000 x 30 = $195,000,000


That is a LOT of money, especially considering the size of the league revenues. The players greed is clouding their judgement if they don't accept the leagues offer. The owners obviously lost TONS of cash last season, otherwise, why would they have held out this long?


Its just a question of logic.

Wrong. Not all teams are at the level of $40m, let alone $49m.

 

[SENSible1*]

My gut tells me that Gary doesn't counter-offer.

He goes ahead with the press conference unless he gets another call.

Of course, that doesn't preclude him changing his mind on the cancellation if the PA comes back in the next couple of days taking the $42.5 cap.

 

[Cropduster]

just completely out of curiosity, you have Bettman, then Daly, whos next? Which of the 30 owners is their main spokesman? is the Calgary owner?

 

[Trottier]

exactly! I guarantee you the season will not get cancelled over $6.5 million dollars per year..

Make that $6.5 mil x 30 teams.

***

Those who pass this latest reported NHLPA counter-offer out of hand are truly funny. For months, up until the last couple of days, the NHLPA would not consider a hardcap. Now they are negotiating a hardcap within the $40-50 million per season bracket. That's a quantum leap, a major concession.

Yet, some fools wouldn't accept a great deal - wouldn't know victory - if it hit them in the face. Their sole goal now is just to insult the NHLPA. Hateful, enviou$, so called "fans"....Many of whom will be kissing the players butts for autographs, etc. once the season starts.

To be sure, it took a God-awful long time, but the NHLPA is negotiating...on the owner's terms. But still, some fans insist on scoffing at the $49 mil offer. And will still blame the NHLPA for not compromising!

Let hypocrisy reign.

 

[ArtG]

Thats what the PA thinks too. You and them are both wrong. Its Gary's negotiations MO. If he says "take it or leave it" he means it. Theres no move on this. Shes done tommorow if the players dont move on it either. Even Bob Mackenzie said so. This is it.

The NHLPA won't retract their offer and they would look terrible if they accepted Gary's offer. The smart thing to have done was to accept it in the first place but if the season DOES get cancelled because of a matter of numbers then it will make everyone look bad and it will leave a sour taste in all hockey fans' mouths..

If you agree on principle to ALL the same things -- which was the problem to begin with -- but can't come to a cap number then there really is something wrong with union/league leadership.

Take it from me, this season will not get cancelled because of $6.5 million dollars per team and on the off-chance it does I'll be shocked and disappointed.

 

[Balej20*]

Of course, that doesn't preclude him changing his mind on the cancellation if the PA comes back in the next couple of days taking the $42.5 cap.

in other words, this may never end, lol.

 

[Gary]

The owners obviously lost TONS of cash last season, otherwise, why would they have held out this long?

That's the singular thing about this lockout that bothers me the most. Players or the union must have some serious brain damage not to understand the obvious. These owners/ownership groups became extremely wealthy by knowing what works and what dont work and if there's $1.00 to be made-they'd be fricken playing. If the owners were as greedy as some thought-why the hell would'nt they put their billions/multi-millions into something that could be FAR MORE PROFITABLE?? How many mulit-millionaires/billionaires have you heard say "No way I'd ever invest in a NHL team under current circumstances. That'd be stupid." or something along those lines?-Cause I've heard it a few times.

 

[FLYLine27*]

Why doesnt Gary extend the deadline one more day. Or at least till the evening say 6-8:00est. A deal will be stuck. But if he doesnt want a deal struck then he will go ahead with the 11:00pm deadline.

 

[Member 23807]

Some fools wouldn't accept a great deal - wouldn't know victory - if it hit them in the face.

I'm sorry but how do you figure?

$49 Million x 30 Teams = $1,470,000,000 / $2,100,000,000 = 70% of league revenues.

Are you kidding me? You really think a league should accept an offer that could 'potentially' bring league payrolls to 70%. No company in their right mind would allow a union that kind of power after what has transpired in the past 10 years of the current CBA.

I know many will come back and argue that too many of us are assuming that all the teams would spend that much but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that more than half probably would not to mention you now have a range of $20M to $49M which is a $29M range! How does that ensure a level playing field about the haves and have-nots?

PJStyles

 

[Jaded-Fan]

From MSNBC, a section from a just posted article that says my thoughts pretty well, entitled . . .

NHL players should settle for greater good
Selfish association must realize more at stake than just them

...............................

After nearly six months of insisting they would never accept a salary cap, the players and their fearless — and clueless — leader, Bob Goodenow, have decided that, well, maybe it wouldn’t be the worst thing after all.

Anyone with a shred of sense would have realized months ago that it would come to this. The owners started with one objective and they weren’t going to change. It was a salary cap or no deal.

Maybe there were other ways to get a deal done, but it doesn’t matter. The owners held all the cards all along. If the season dies for lack of effort to save it, they’ll actually see some benefits.

For starters, without a collective bargaining agreement, they can use their free time to devise ways of speeding up the game and make it more appealing to fans. Then, in the fall, they can populate their training camps with replacement players and wait for the union members to start breaking ranks and crossing the lines. Whether the players sign now, the NHL will have a season next year, but it will be on terms the owners impose, not an agreement the union negotiates.

But the players will see nothing. They’ll have thrown away the year because Goodenow wasn’t perceptive enough to see that his refusal to even talk about a salary cap would get him nowhere but ruin.

They’ll have thrown away the salaries they would have made. The points they don’t score, the saves they don’t make, the games they don’t play in, will never be made up.

They won’t kill the game. Leagues that go back nearly a century don’t just die, no matter how hard both sides try.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6976659/

 

[not quite yoda]

Hey I got a question... this salary capothey are trying to agree upon where to cap it off at....

is this the "triple cap" the NHL came up with that they are finalizing?Or is ita far simpler cap? Like are NHLers gonna be limited to 6 million$ a year?

 

[richardn]

Some people get all worked up. This is called negotiations. The two sides are inch worming there way to a head on collision of 46 Million. Does anyone think that Bettman will throw away the season over a couple million dollars. They are using the media as a negotiation tactic by changing the direction of the pressure. That is why the PA started so high. This is all been orchestrated from day one. The PA has caved because they were bluffing, they are simply trying to get the most they can get now before noon tommorow. The PA knows that Bettman would be in big trouble for throwing away a season over chump change.

 

[Chelios]

Press conference tomorow will announce that a deal has been reached in principal and that training camps will open on monday. Salary cap at 45 million, salary floor at 25 million. I`m quite confident now.

These letters are nothing bu PR moves so that tomorow there will be some suspence and excitement for tomorow. I bet they wrote them while sitting at the same table.

 

[KrazyCanuck19]

God dammit. Words cannot express how much I hate Bob Goodenow.
A-HOLE!

I think Bettman, with that brilliant letter of his, is looking like more of an A-HOLE than Goodenow. Who the **** does this guy think he is??

 

[Trottier]

I'm sorry but how do you figure?

$49 Million x 30 Teams = $1,470,000,000 / $2,100,000,000 = 70% of league revenues.

Are you kidding me? You really think a league should accept an offer that could 'potentially' bring league payrolls to 70%. No company in their right mind would allow a union that kind of power after what has transpired in the past 10 years of the current CBA.

I know many will come back and argue that too many of us are assuming that all the teams would spend that much but it doesn't take a rock scientist to see that more than half probably would not to mention you now have a range of $20M to $49M which is a $29M range! How does that ensure a level playing field about the haves and have-nots?

PJStyles

I acknowledge the 70% point that you raise.

Consider also additional monies (however you want to categorize them) realized from luxury taxes.

More importantly, are we forecasting a league that will be incapable of growing revenues moving forward?

If the answer is "yes", than all of us so-called NHL fans should be very worried.

Unfortunately, one rarely sees that point raised among the anti-NHLPA, faux-Economics-PhD zealots here. (Present company excluded.)

 

[Zednik]

Who the **** does this guy think he is??

hmmm, wait, the commissioner ?

 

[EHCler]

Make that $6.5 mil x 30 teams.

***

Those who pass this latest reported NHLPA counter-offer out of hand are truly funny. For months, up until the last couple of days, the NHLPA would not consider a hardcap. Now they are negotiating a hardcap within the $40-50 million per season bracket. That's a quantum leap, a major concession.

Yet, some fools wouldn't accept a great deal - wouldn't know victory - if it hit them in the face. Their sole goal now is just to insult the NHLPA. Hateful, enviou$, so called "fans"....Many of whom will be kissing the players butts for autographs, etc. once the season starts.

To be sure, it took a God-awful long time, but the NHLPA is negotiating...on the owner's terms. But still, some fans insist on scoffing at the $49 mil offer. And will still blame the NHLPA for not compromising!

Let hypocrisy reign.

I do not think it is such a big deal for most owners whether the cap is couple of million higher. No owner is forced to use up the full cap, a fair hard cap which 49 Milion almost is will stop the salary inflation caused by the big market team. A cap is not supposed to make all teams equal in terms of team salary, but stop inflated free agent salaries and thus level the playingfield more. There will always be teams which will pay and be able to afford higher salaries and I think that is the way it is supposed to be. All sports live from underdog against big boys games.
It is also in the interest of the league that the big market teams do on average better than the small market teams, as they attract more revenues for the league, as long as small teams who do a good job have a chance of winning. The NHL will come back with an adjusted offer and there will be an agreement, no side can afford anymore that there will be no deal done.

 

[Member 23807]

More importantly, are we forecasting a league that will be incapable of growing revenues moving forward?

Great question... what do you think the player's would respond to that question? Clearly, if they thought revenues would rise, wouldn't they have accepted linkage as part of a proposal? Afterall, increasing revenues with a direct link in a new CBA would mean rising salary cap thresholds.

The fact the NHLPA and the players didn't go for that indicates to all of us that revenues will clearly decline in the NHL. It only takes us looking at their recent tv deal in the U.S to realize that.

PJStyles

 

[Gary]

I'm sorry but how do you figure?

$49 Million x 30 Teams = $1,470,000,000 / $2,100,000,000 = 70% of league revenues.

Are you kidding me? You really think a league should accept an offer that could 'potentially' bring league payrolls to 70%. No company in their right mind would allow a union that kind of power after what has transpired in the past 10 years of the current CBA.

I know many will come back and argue that too many of us are assuming that all the teams would spend that much but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that more than half probably would not to mention you now have a range of $20M to $49M which is a $29M range! How does that ensure a level playing field about the haves and have-nots?

PJStyles

How does that ensure a level playing field about the haves and have-nots?

I think ultimately what will happen under these circumstances-and beleive me I'm not trying to be a know-it-all, just my own personal guess is that under a $49M cap (for example)-the teams that are driving salaries up (for the most part) will have little if no $$$ to spend now. Now teams can set budgets and get U.F.A.'s at a LOT lower cost because the big $$$ teams are out of the bidding now and EVENTUALLY, teams reguardless of $30M (spent wise) or $49M could very conceivably be on the same page consistently. Here's a example-Pavel Demitra is a U.F.A. that under the OLD CBA would command $4.5-$5M?? Now Detroit/Toronto/Rangers/Blues are out of the bidding. The other teams know this and therefore start the offer CONSIDERABLY less. Example-Boston offers a $2.5 million deal, Anaheim turns around and says $3M...If another team upped that on Anaheim then they'd be screwing themselves. IF The GM's dont overbid, and overbid yearly back and forth and arbitration is dealt with in a better manner, the league should be highly competitive for years. The biggest difference IMHO is that a team with a $30M salary could look as good or better then many $48M salaries because the overpaid big contracts on big market teams will need a few years to be weeded out...

 

[nomorekids]

Hm, so I rushed home from work to see what the latest news was(sadly, I'm cut off from the world while there) and I'm intrigued to see the negotiating has gone on further. Now, my question...

has there been any report as to whether or not this is expected to go on into the night? or...? is this a true negotiation, or are we going to hope everyone wakes up with cooler heads in the morning and bangs it out last second?

 

[Member 23807]

Now Detroit/Toronto/Rangers/Blues are out of the bidding

Not quite accurate given that Toronto after this season will only have 1/4th of their players, if that, under contract. THey will have lots of money to spend as will the other teams you've mentioned because many of the players signed over the past 2 seasons all got short-term deals.

PJStyles

 

[RangerBoy]

EJ Hradek reported a BOG source told him the NHL can do better and that is all part of negotiating

John Davidson said both sides can do better

Bettman and Goodenow are a bunch of used car salesmen