Player Talk: Anthony Mantha

[lilidk]

Mantha iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii vs iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii Bertuzzi , just numbers
21year 60games 36 points iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii 21years old 64games 23 points
22 years 80games 48 points iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii 22years 52games 18 points
23 years 60games 35 points iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii 23years old 39 games 16points
So far Mantha has better numbers than Bertuzzi had . Bertuzzi become dominating player at 26 , Mantha only 23 .

 

[SirloinUB]

because he's lazy and doesn't show a sense of urgency!

1) He is in the NHL. He is unequivocally not lazy
2) Even with some invalidated perceptions about effort he is still a top 3 or 4 player on this team.

Mantha is not a problem.

Mantha was 21 when he become regular Red wing . He was kind of slow , didn't help at defense . He improved big time, but still he needs to work on his confidence and shot

Sports are weird. People love placing high expectations on athletes just to rake them through the coals when they don't live up to said expectations, regardless of their abilities.

 

[Reddwit]

What cares? Not every offensive player needs to be a two-way force. A team can't just have thr Fedorovs and Toewses, it needs the Shanahans and Kanes.

That’s a good point. What cares? Certainly not me, since needing to be a two-way player was nowhere in my argument.

 

[Reddwit]

Mantha iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii vs iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii Bertuzzi , just numbers
21year 60games 36 points iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii 21years old 64games 23 points
22 years 80games 48 points iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii 22years 52games 18 points
23 years 60games 35 points iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii 23years old 39 games 16points
So far Mantha has better numbers than Bertuzzi had . Bertuzzi become dominating player at 26 , Mantha only 23 .

A comparison to the elder Bertuzzi is irrelevant and dispositive of nothng, so I'm not sure why we're using him as a measuring stick (especially since the game has become an entirely different beast in the intervening 20+ years), but at least get the stats and info right.

Not only is Mantha 24, he's already passed his half birthday. He'll be 25 befor next season starts.

Mantha played all of 10 games as a 21 year old. He was 22 before the 16-17 year started. Bertuzzi is 7 months younger for purposes of year-to-year comparisons.

Mantha @ 21 - 3 in 10, Bertuzzi @ 20/21 (mostly 20) - 39p in 74
Mantha @ 22 - 36 in 60, Bertuzzi @ 21/22 (mostly 21) - 23 in 64
Mantha @ 23 - 48 in 80, Bertuzzi @ 22/23 (mostly 22) - 33 in 74
Mantha @ 24 - 35 in 60, Bertuzzi @ 23/24 (mostly 23) - 16 in 32

You didn't even get Bertuzzi's stats right for the last 2 seasons.

And outside of Bertuzzi's rookie season, he played in an era of lower goal scoring and better goaltending, and that was the case for all of 97-04.

 

[Hen Kolland]

A comparison to the elder Bertuzzi is irrelevant and dispositive of nothng, so I'm not sure why we're using him as a measuring stick (especially since the game has become an entirely different beast in the intervening 20+ years), but at least get the stats and info right.

Not only is Mantha 24, he's already passed his half birthday. He'll be 25 befor next season starts.

Mantha played all of 10 games as a 21 year old. He was 22 before the 16-17 year started. Bertuzzi is 7 months younger for purposes of year-to-year comparisons.

Mantha @ 21 - 3 in 10, Bertuzzi @ 20/21 (mostly 20) - 39p in 74
Mantha @ 22 - 36 in 60, Bertuzzi @ 21/22 (mostly 21) - 23 in 64
Mantha @ 23 - 48 in 80, Bertuzzi @ 22/23 (mostly 22) - 33 in 74
Mantha @ 24 - 35 in 60, Bertuzzi @ 23/24 (mostly 23) - 16 in 32

You didn't even get Bertuzzi's stats right for the last 2 seasons.

And outside of Bertuzzi's rookie season, he played in an era of lower goal scoring and better goaltending, and that was the case for all of 97-04.

But people pretend that Mantha is somehow a lesser version of Franzen. That any comparison to Franzen is an insult to Franzen.

Franzen's first 3 years: 221 GP - 49 G - 35 A. 0.22 G/GP + 0.38 P/GP
Mantha's career to date: 210 GP - 62 G - 60 A. 0.30 G/GP + 0.58 P/GP

Mantha has also done this from ages 21-24 with roughly 2 AHL seasons under his belt. Franzen did this from ages 26-28 with 4 SHL seasons under his belt.

The big jump from Franzen came in that 4th year when he hit that 34 goal high water mark, and became the player everyone fondly remembers.

But to continue on, Franzen also joined the Red Wings on an absolutely dominant team in the heart of their competitive window with players like Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Shanahan and Lidstrom logging 80+ points year one. It had some other notable players as well, but consider the best season by a player since Mantha has joined Detroit is probably Larkin this year.

Nobody will deny that Mantha needs to work on his consistency in his effort level, but to pretend like he's a disappointment at this point is disingenuous.

 

[Gniwder]

What cares? Not every offensive player needs to be a two-way force. A team can't just have thr Fedorovs and Toewses, it needs the Shanahans and Kanes.

In today's NHL you could easily run 18 Fedorovs and 2 goalies since you no longer need enforcers. Of course 6 of them would be really unhappy and pissed off at the coach, and none of them will re-sign with the team but of he is one of the most versatile players to ever play the game. I can't think of any other 100+ pt center that lined up as a defenseman.

 

[SoupGuru]

Stanley cups are won in the trenches. Guys need to find another gear.

Maybe Mantha has another gear for the playoffs. But if he can't find a regular season gear...

 

[Reddwit]

But people pretend that Mantha is somehow a lesser version of Franzen. That any comparison to Franzen is an insult to Franzen.

Franzen's first 3 years: 221 GP - 49 G - 35 A. 0.22 G/GP + 0.38 P/GP
Mantha's career to date: 210 GP - 62 G - 60 A. 0.30 G/GP + 0.58 P/GP

Mantha has also done this from ages 21-24 with roughly 2 AHL seasons under his belt. Franzen did this from ages 26-28 with 4 SHL seasons under his belt.

The big jump from Franzen came in that 4th year when he hit that 34 goal high water mark, and became the player everyone fondly remembers.

But to continue on, Franzen also joined the Red Wings on an absolutely dominant team in the heart of their competitive window with players like Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Shanahan and Lidstrom logging 80+ points year one. It had some other notable players as well, but consider the best season by a player since Mantha has joined Detroit is probably Larkin this year.

Nobody will deny that Mantha needs to work on his consistency in his effort level, but to pretend like he's a disappointment at this point is disingenuous.

Nobody has ever compared Franzen's career to Mantha's career, and for good reason. Franzen is a poor comparable for almost any NHLer because his career path was so anomalous. There is little use in comparing a top 20 draft pick slated to be an NHL sniper to a 24 year old draft pick slated to be a bottom 6 grinding center with a bit of offensive intrigue. Mantha was never going to play any professional hockey in any role other than an offensive one whereas Franzen worked his way up literally from a 4C PK specialist, to a 3C with spot-time on the PP, to a quasi-2nd liner in his third year and his short career took off from there. There is little point in this exercise prior to that point.

People compare Franzen once he became a top sixer to Mantha as a top sixer. In other words, Franzen in his prime to Mantha at full development. And the reason for that comparison comes from their shared attributes of size, shot, and consistency issues. Personally, in that context, I think its a fair comparison.

And for the record, I'm not sure too many people think or have said that comparing Mantha to Franzen is an insult to Franzen, but maybe I've missed that. I've more often seen people say that Franzen might be Mantha's ceiling, and find that underwhelming, which is fair given where Mantha was drafted and what he did in his D+1 season.

 

[Henkka]

Mantha was 21 when he become regular Red wing . He was kind of slow , didn't help at defense . He improved big time, but still he needs to work on his confidence and shot

When Johan Franzen was 21 year old, he was at Swedish 2nd level.

7 years later, he first time scored +20 goals in NHL.

Mantha is 4 seasons ahead of Franzen's development curve.

[/perspective]

 

[Heaton]

When Johan Franzen was 21 year old, he was at Swedish 2nd level.

7 years later, he first time scored +20 goals in NHL.

Mantha is 4 seasons ahead of Franzen's development curve.

[/perspective]

How many other players had Franzen's development curve? Mantha isn't Franzen.

 

[obey86]

How many other players had Franzen's development curve? Mantha isn't Franzen.

kronwall too

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

How many other players had Franzen's development curve? Mantha isn't Franzen.

None, keep in mind Franzen admitted because of social anxiety he intentionally tried not to score as a younger player.

But unfortunately nobody has the same development curve in general so that is kind of unfair in my opinion.

While I remain a pretty big fan of what Mantha can be and what he brings to the table when he is on, he ultimately is available if the right return is, just like everyone not named Larkin or our 2019 first overall pick for me. Anyway, his talent and skillset does remind me of Franzen though he has never been nearly as good defensively or physically as Franzen who was underrated often around here over the years... While a better fighter (sadly he gets hurt when doing it) it is only on nights like the last game in Vegas where you see his ability to drag people to areas and totally disrupt systems. Franzen did this often actually, complete coaching chalk talk player. But I get people that bring that, to me he reminds me of when Rick Nash wouldn't drive the net, to date he did it more frequently but when Nash would get stuck in perimeter mode it looked an awful lot like Mantha.

Currently both Mantha and AA are chalk talk players in terms of teams are aware of what they can do. While AA has been more consistent of the two for sure this year, ideally both guys dial that level of excellence more often to where Larkin had been for almost the entire balance of the season. That is important for our current look at the rebuild. If those two cannot develop it, well we are still three years away from the big trend upward in my opinion. We need both those guys, not one or the other and not debating which one might help and which one to move. Both might not pan out, but unfortunately if this turns into Nyquist and Tatar, well tack more time onto that rebuild in my opinion. Both guys have the talent, but it is time, they need to take that next step or the hard choice to move on from both, not at cut rates but what we can get next season needs to happen in my opinion.

 

[Heaton]

kronwall too

It's way more common for defense to peak later than forwards. Kronwall was also behind elite offensive defensemen.

 

[Heaton]

None, keep in mind Franzen admitted because of social anxiety he intentionally tried not to score as a younger player.

But unfortunately nobody has the same development curve in general so that is kind of unfair in my opinion.

While I remain a pretty big fan of what Mantha can be and what he brings to the table when he is on, he ultimately is available if the right return is, just like everyone not named Larkin or our 2019 first overall pick for me. Anyway, his talent and skillset does remind me of Franzen though he has never been nearly as good defensively or physically as Franzen who was underrated often around here over the years... While a better fighter (sadly he gets hurt when doing it) it is only on nights like the last game in Vegas where you see his ability to drag people to areas and totally disrupt systems. Franzen did this often actually, complete coaching chalk talk player. But I get people that bring that, to me he reminds me of when Rick Nash wouldn't drive the net, to date he did it more frequently but when Nash would get stuck in perimeter mode it looked an awful lot like Mantha.

Currently both Mantha and AA are chalk talk players in terms of teams are aware of what they can do. While AA has been more consistent of the two for sure this year, ideally both guys dial that level of excellence more often to where Larkin had been for almost the entire balance of the season. That is important for our current look at the rebuild. If those two cannot develop it, well we are still three years away from the big trend upward in my opinion. We need both those guys, not one or the other and not debating which one might help and which one to move. Both might not pan out, but unfortunately if this turns into Nyquist and Tatar, well tack more time onto that rebuild in my opinion. Both guys have the talent, but it is time, they need to take that next step or the hard choice to move on from both, not at cut rates but what we can get next season needs to happen in my opinion.

I like Mantha too, I just don't expect him to be a perennial 30+ goal scorer.

 

[newfy]

I like Mantha too, I just don't expect him to be a perennial 30+ goal scorer.

Hes on an absolutely horrible team right now and hes still not far off a 30 goal pace right now. When they get good again and theres more talent on the PP I could see quite a few 30 goal seasons for him

 

[YpsiWings]

None, keep in mind Franzen admitted because of social anxiety he intentionally tried not to score as a younger player.

But unfortunately nobody has the same development curve in general so that is kind of unfair in my opinion.

While I remain a pretty big fan of what Mantha can be and what he brings to the table when he is on, he ultimately is available if the right return is, just like everyone not named Larkin or our 2019 first overall pick for me. Anyway, his talent and skillset does remind me of Franzen though he has never been nearly as good defensively or physically as Franzen who was underrated often around here over the years... While a better fighter (sadly he gets hurt when doing it) it is only on nights like the last game in Vegas where you see his ability to drag people to areas and totally disrupt systems. Franzen did this often actually, complete coaching chalk talk player. But I get people that bring that, to me he reminds me of when Rick Nash wouldn't drive the net, to date he did it more frequently but when Nash would get stuck in perimeter mode it looked an awful lot like Mantha.

Currently both Mantha and AA are chalk talk players in terms of teams are aware of what they can do. While AA has been more consistent of the two for sure this year, ideally both guys dial that level of excellence more often to where Larkin had been for almost the entire balance of the season. That is important for our current look at the rebuild. If those two cannot develop it, well we are still three years away from the big trend upward in my opinion. We need both those guys, not one or the other and not debating which one might help and which one to move. Both might not pan out, but unfortunately if this turns into Nyquist and Tatar, well tack more time onto that rebuild in my opinion. Both guys have the talent, but it is time, they need to take that next step or the hard choice to move on from both, not at cut rates but what we can get next season needs to happen in my opinion.

I like the perimeter Nash to Mantha comparison, makes a lot of sense. Really hope Mantha and AA are not done developing, there is another level they can reach.

I don’t remember you putting times on the rebuild like that before, found it interesting. Hoping you are wrong, but I tend to look on the bright side. Some luck in the lottery and a free agent signing or two and I am hopeful they are competitive again 20-21.

 

[Heaton]

Hes on an absolutely horrible team right now and hes still not far off a 30 goal pace right now. When they get good again and theres more talent on the PP I could see quite a few 30 goal seasons for him

I think he'll touch 30 a few times too, but Franzen was a much better goal scorer.

 

[Winger98]

RE: Kronwall

He was also the victim of some bad luck and things out of his control. He spent extra time in the minors because of the first lockout. His first stint in the NHL was abbreviated because he caught his foot in a rut in the ice in LA and broke his leg. I think there was another injury that ate into his early attempts to join the Wings. There was a serious concern that he was just going to be one of those guys who are plagued by injuries.

I think he'll touch 30 a few times too, but Franzen was a much better goal scorer.

Mantha gets slammed, deservedly, for being lazy at times. Other times, he just looks lost. Maybe that will right itself with age and experience, but he just seems to be a bit behind the play way too often. Like he can't read the play well enough to take advantage of his physical gifts.

 

[lilidk]

How many other players had Franzen's development curve? Mantha isn't Franzen.

Mantha is Mantha , well worth his money

 

[Blueliner70]

I offered my thoughts on Mantha:................ The Detroit Red Wings need Anthony Mantha to be more consistent – The District

 

[turkleton85]

I offered my thoughts on Mantha:................ The Detroit Red Wings need Anthony Mantha to be more consistent – The District

nothing new, actually its quite superficial. I agree with manthas usage on the powerplay, its nice to see that he can be a good net front presence as well as ripping one timers (one thing i've always hoped for) from the dots.

he now is sitting at basically the same stats as in his rookie season. After his first season, we thought that he would take the next step and become a 70 point player for us. He will probably never reach this, unless the team around him gets better and that lights a fire under his ass.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Jeez HSJ asks the dumbest questions. Mentions the wrong game where he made a mistake.... and Art Regner is a

 

[lilidk]

when they draft Mantha , he was goal scorer , now he is more playmaker than scorer . He needs to pay attention on his shot and confidence

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

Jeez HSJ asks the dumbest questions. Mentions the wrong game where he made a mistake.... and Art Regner is a

Yeah, jesus, she asks a charged question and can't even get the details right. She is so bad at her job.

 

[turkleton85]

when they draft Mantha , he was goal scorer , now he is more playmaker than scorer . He needs to pay attention on his shot and confidence

his shot is fine, and him having playmakerskills was evident from his first few games in the NHL. I think this a great skillset to have in our future lineup, he can control the puck pretty well when hes motivated and has a nice passing game and vision. And now that he's used as more of a shooter on the powerplay, they are utilizing him in a way we all wanted. He'll get more confident in this role and i'm sure he'll be a real threat on the PP with his one timer and passing ability next season. Having him on one PP unit and Zadina on the other will be awesome