Player Talk: Anthony Mantha

Discussion in 'Detroit Red Wings' started by Bench, Dec 30, 2016.

  1. Ezekial

    Ezekial Poise.

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    My frustration with Anthony stems from seeing at least one shift or drive to the net per game that makes me say "this kid is special" but other times he leaves me scratching my head.

    I agree with the sentiment that he plays a lil differently with Z.
     
  2. TheMule93

    TheMule93 On a mule rides the swindler

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    Mantha's next contract is almost certainly going to be a bridge deal you'd have to think... no way would i want to commit too much money to this guy at this point. Is he a 40-50 point player? Is he better than that? We need to see what turns into in the next couple of seasons

    same with AA

    wouldnt be surprised to see larkin get a long term deal
     
  3. TheMule93

    TheMule93 On a mule rides the swindler

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    Mantha had 19 points in his first 19 games

    he has 17 points in 42 games since. That's barely even 3rd line numbers.
     
  4. Winger98

    Winger98 Moderator

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    I'd be more concerned about Mantha's reaction if this was the first time Blashill had went to this particular well. The Wings have tried this a few times, though.
     
  5. mantha39

    mantha39 End of an era

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    Way too much of a perimeter player. I can't think of the last time he scored using his shot either. It just seems to be the way that entire line plays.
     
  6. Claypool

    Claypool Registered User

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    Just so we're clear on this subject, this is what he Blashill said:

    These comments are hardly anything worth getting worked up over. Anyone using these comments to point to Mantha's struggles must never had anyone critique their work.
     
  7. Redder Winger

    Redder Winger Registered User

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    Fair enough. Show me all the other guys whose work was publicly critiqued by Blashill.
     
  8. Rzombo4 prez

    Rzombo4 prez Registered User

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    People seem to forget that the leopard has a very hard time changing its spots.
     
  9. Winger98

    Winger98 Moderator

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    When someone in the office has made a mistake, you don't walk out into the middle of the office in the middle of the day and go, "Jeff's been a real screw up lately, and he needs to start doing better." Take that and multiply it by a factor of 10. That's what comments to the media are, especially when the comments don't stop there but lead to the reporter then walking over to the locker room, putting a tape recorder in Jeff's face, and going, "so, your boss thinks you're a screw up?" And then those comments can also end up being sent out, twisted, dissected, etc. by yahoos like us.

    You can try to equate it to some half-baked comments made in an English workshop or some boss being a dick, but it's not. There's a level of exposure to it that dwarfs anything the average person has dealt with, and this isn't the first time the Wings have went this route. And at some point it backfires.
     
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  10. Claypool

    Claypool Registered User

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    Ok then, they need to trade Mantha if that's what you believe. He's a mentally weak player.

    For the record, I don't actually believe these comments have affected his game. He's just not that great of a player (yet). People are just trying to pinpoint excuses for the team's young players.
     
  11. ArGarBarGar

    ArGarBarGar Defense Please

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    Like I said, it is a knock on both parties. I don't think calling out young players like that is constructive, and I think Mantha's play after those comments is a good look on him.

    Let's also keep in mind if Blashill is talking about Mantha like this in public, it is very possible he has done this in private or in practice, and it could be to the degree in which the relationship between Mantha and Blashill has soured (I am not saying that is the case or saying to what degree the relationship has soured, but that it is only a possibility).
     
  12. Winger98

    Winger98 Moderator

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    How many players have we seen regress under Blashill? On top of that, Mrazek wasn't happy with the team, and essentially forced a deal with his lousy play. Athanasiou has reportedly been unhappy at times. Mantha might have a rough relationship with the coach. Z's play slumped after Blashill seemingly called out the leadership on the team after a loss in Vancouver. There's been a lot of smoke in general about dysfunction in the locker room.

    Maybe I'm missing something but the common thread to a lot of this seems to be Blashill.
     
  13. Goalie guy

    Goalie guy Registered User

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    I see a lot of he does not use his shot, the whole line are perimeter players, passengers, I see him stuck in the net front roll. I see a completely inept coach over his head and blaming his players for his poor choices. I think it is clear the whole team has regressed and then flat lined under him.
     
  14. Rzombo4 prez

    Rzombo4 prez Registered User

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    You could see these issues with Mantha coming from a mile away. The issues that caused him to slip to 20th overall in his draft year (after scoring 50 goals) are the exact same issues that are driving people nuts today. You didn't need to be Scotty Bowman to see this coming. People are out of their minds if they think that a coaching change is going to all of a sudden give a low pulse player like Mantha a giant motor. People need to adjust their expectations and appreciate Tony for what he is. He may be the most physically talented player on this team but that doesn't make him our most effective player.
     
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  15. Claypool

    Claypool Registered User

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    It's a young team that's going to have growing pains. Think Buffalo, Edmonton and Arizona are doing any better with morale and frustration? According to Holland the roster is going to get even younger next season.

    This is what everyone wanted, though. Enjoy the losing culture and poor attitudes.
     
  16. ArGarBarGar

    ArGarBarGar Defense Please

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    "Losing culture" isn't really a thing unless management is terrible.
     
  17. Go Wings

    Go Wings Registered User

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    If you look at Mantha's stats from last year at the 60 game mark he has the exact same number of points with 2 more goals and 2 less assists.

    Disappointing IMO it shows a lack of growth this season.
     
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  18. TheMule93

    TheMule93 On a mule rides the swindler

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    I agree. The only thing I was looking for in this season was growth from mantha, AA, and larks. Possibly others too like Bert and Svech.

    Only Larkin has been better - and much better at that. Bertuzzi too I guess.
     
  19. turkleton85

    turkleton85 Registered User

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    and that after that hot of a start. I wouldn't have thought it would be possible to NOT finish with at least 60 points, when you start with 20 out of 20
     
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  20. Henkka

    Henkka Registered User

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    Conditioning still need work. Simple as that. Guy is not yet a 82-game player. Neither is Larkin or Athanasiou.
     
  21. turkleton85

    turkleton85 Registered User

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    which might mean that detroits strength & conditioning program isn't to good. Juniors, AHL and NHL, now 23 years old? I mean of course it could be true, but he should absolutley be able to play 82 games. We see 19 years old being able to do it
     
  22. CaptainZetterberg40

    CaptainZetterberg40 Registered User

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    Here is how I feel about Mantha at this point in time.

    First I want to preface this by saying that I feel Mantha is criticized to a great degree because we as fans have this vision of what he can GROW into more so than other players not named Larkin. This is due to his foundation of height, frame, serviceable speed (when used), finesse, prior scoring history especially due to his shot which I feel is the best on the team. The whole point is that unless we trade him which I don't think Kenny would do, going forward in order to be a competitive team, we NEED him to be part of the puzzle. Make no mistake about that. Through previous comments made from teammates earlier in the season, they feel the same way too. Through Blash's actions he feels the same way as well.
    I believe Blash's comments made toward Mantha was a motivational tool fueled by his vision of what Mantha could be. To an extent when Blash explains himself, I understand where he is coming from. For example, Blash talks about Mantha's role as a net front player and how though it may not be the first option Mantha would desire such as his natural spot at the circles, and how it is important to embrace it. When you and I have jobs in the real world it is important to branch out and learn different skills to help toward your end goal. I feel like Blash putting Mantha in a net front position is his way of doing this. It is a great opportunity for Mantha to learn how to dictate and impact the game in a different way for the future. Its harder to stop a player with a diverse skill set. Now if you have gotten this far, please don't label me as a Blashill apologist because I feel that our coach and bench staff have many warts and I would prefer our newer generation of young players to develop along side a new but more experienced staff (who the candidates are I don't know). This could obviously be a classic case of the grass is greener on the other side, but based upon the results we have gotten over time, I feel like the experiment is coming to an end sooner rather than later. I also feel like our problems on the ice extend further than Blash himself so I do feel its unfair to let him get most of the hate, but I guess it just comes with the territory.

    In general, based upon the patterns of play / system we have seen throughout the season and prior, I feel like Blash & co. has implemented a system of low percentage hockey. But for now we are focusing on Mantha, so I will only explain what I see when Mantha is playing with Zetterberg + Nyquist & on the power play. To begin with his normal first line, Zone entries for this line has been quite difficult, dump and chase is difficult with this line because the speed isn't there to get to the puck ahead of the forecheck. When the puck is deep and a battle ensues along the boards (memory please don't fail me now), but I feel that both Z & Nyquist are often the one in the trenches. This is a team wide problem but we don't win many battles in general (one thing that infuriates me). But there are two types of battles I see. One being an even strength battle where Z & Nyquist are against two other defenders, or an odd man battle where its either Z OR Nyquist facing two defenders or both facing 3 defenders. I feel that the best teams in the league play hard working and supportive hockey. Though I am programmed to hate the Pens, whenever I watch them (along with the Preds) I characterize them as worker bees, they immediately get in on the action and support and fight for the puck. Far too often have I seen battles where a player not in the scrum is waiting for a player to somehow get him the puck when its obviously not going to happen. Thus, often we lose the battle and of course possession. One thing to change would be to instruct Mantha to join the battle and use his frame to impact the play. Why do I say instruct, as if it hasn't been said by the coach already? Because we are 60 plus games into the season, and I see this situation of lack of support occur way to long. Thus I assume that lack of adaptation means that he hasn't been instructed specifically to do so. Or it could be that he has and Mantha just doesn't want to do it. So infer how you will.

    Now here is one peculiar thing I have noticed. Lets say we have gained possession of the puck in the O-Zone, immediately after possession has been gained, Mantha immediately goes toward the front of the net. Now one would say, "well hey, isn't that what Blash instructed him to do"? Typically I would say yes, but where this fails is that by him solely positioning himself by the net on EVEN Strength plays, he takes himself out as a possible passing option to alleviate the pressure from the forecheck that we WILL/ALWAYS will get since teams know we can't handle it. There are members here (who, is of no concern) that speak of Franzen and how he use to go in and out of the net front position and make plays happen from different areas of the ice. When Mantha is just standing there, his success is predicated by his teammates doing the bulk of the work and getting the puck through traffic and to the net so that Mantha can do what he needs to do. How often do we see that done successfully ? Not much. Its an inefficient style of play, especially when our Defense does us no favors too. Now here is where Mantha is at fault and where I feel he desperately needs to work on. Far too often I see him lazily standing in front of the net and with his stick in the air (above his head) being shoved around (as if he's 5'9 165 lbs) and having poor body position. Now I'm not asking him to be the ultimate warrior like Holmstrom was because few could. But Mantha needs to LEARN and come to understand that a player of his size and assumed strength (do you see his upper body and traps in interviews?) initially has the POWER / ADVANTAGE in such a battle. Part of excelling in the net front position is hard battling, if you have to get a little dirty and throw a few quiet cross checks to make that space yours, then do what you have to do. The second part of it is through technical skills of knowing when and how to gain body position facing the direction of the reception of the puck. I see this season for Mantha as a learning season. A coach needs to be there to instruct this. Again maybe this has been relayed to Mantha and he just hasn't given it his all. Again we as fans will never know, but given the information you yourself have as well as how you perceive things, infer how you will. But as shown, Mantha has his faults too. His faults come through the working side of the game, or as hockey calls it "moving your feet", not through lack of skill. Based upon the conversations he had with Larkin about being impact players for this team during this past offseason, I know the desire is there. He just needs someone to teach him how to get there. Any and all resources must be made available for Mantha (and others) to get them there. Hopefully not in an overbearing or pressuring way, but nonetheless Mantha, along with others are part of our future, and we must smartly invest in them on and off the ice (maybe sports psychologist) to reap the benefits later on. Two players I would like Mantha to do homework on in both battling and using your body initiating contact first for body position are Filip Forsberg and Jordan staal.

    As of now I'm pretty tired of typing, and haven't even scratched the surface because as I said, our problems extend far beyond Mantha, blashill and the two or three types of plays I gave examples of. I'm sure there are certain fallacies I have, and if so lets talk about it. But this is a forum to discuss and build off each other, not berate.
     
  23. obey86

    obey86 Registered User

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    I don't like him being stapled to zetterberg's hip. I think he plays better when he's not on his line.
     
  24. Winger98

    Winger98 Moderator

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    It's also what we were supposed to avoid with Gator, Helm, Glendening, Kronwall, Daley, Nielsen... . The vet influence, teaching the kids how to be pros, providing a winning culture, etc.
     
  25. Henkka

    Henkka Registered User

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    Great great post. Absolutely great.

    I see also this season as a learning process. When Rasmussen comes and takes a role, he will take that net-front as a primary guy. He was drafted because of that ability and he is good at it. Then Mantha will mostly be the trigger-man again.
     
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