Player endorsement w/company owned by team owner?

[BernieParent]

A key follow-up question is how much the Leafs pay TSN and SportsNet to be their PR vehicles.

 

[Knies iT]

Clarkson and Robidas are two recent examples of ambiguous "circumvention" methods employed by Toronto.

This would be very, very smart on their part.

 

[Aceonfire*]

beat me to it haha. I like the idea actually (should be discussed in general and not turned into a stamkos only debate)

If the owner owns a corporation and a team, why not pay from the corp to help get a cap friendly deal?

This is where it gets murky.

Rogers is the parent conpany, but can they give Stamkos a massive sponsorship deal like McDavid got?

That would be like Rexall sponsoring McDavid.

 

[Aceboogie]

Because it violates the CBA.

Im generally curious as to what the CBA rules are? Are owners of a team not allowed to sign members of the team to any sponsorship deals of a corporation owned by the same person?

For Rogers its tough to make a big splash because they have shareholders. But im sure Rogers has several related companies and could find a private Corp to make a sponsorship deal

Im sure a CBA wizard will lay the law and show this isnt doable. But there is probaly a way to Harvey Spector your way around it

Maybe sign him to a sponsorship deal right now while hes on the Bolts, but with the stipulation he only gets the money if hes in the city of Toronto during October-July for a miminum of 50 days for promotional "events" (aka only gets money when he signs in Toronto)

As far as the cap, Bettman is a push over with these issues. Im sure he wont challenge his main revenue driver

 

[Aceonfire*]

A key follow-up question is how much the Leafs pay TSN and SportsNet to be their PR vehicles.

Well Rogers owns Sportsnet so Kypreos is just appeasing his bosses.

And TSN is the Toronto Sports Network as we all know.

 

[Frank the Tank]

This is where it gets murky.

Rogers is the parent conpany, but can they give Stamkos a massive sponsorship deal like McDavid got?

That would be like Rexall sponsoring McDavid.

In a way McDavid is the best anti-depressant Katz can sell to Oilers fans.

 

[amack081]

I'm sure if any other Canadian superstar who joined a Canadian Franchise would see an increase in their endorsement deals.

When it comes to income for the players, of course they are going to consider endorsement deal increases, just like they take into account favorable tax rates and cost of living in those cities.

Now we going to start a thread on how Florida's favorable income tax rates circumvent the cap ?

 

[Vikke]

Im generally curious as to what the CBA rules are? Are owners of a team not allowed to sign members of the team to any sponsorship deals of a corporation owned by the same person?

For Rogers its tough to make a big splash because they have shareholders. But im sure Rogers has several related companies and could find a private Corp to make a sponsorship deal

Im sure a CBA wizard will lay the law and show this isnt doable. But there is probaly a way to Harvey Spector your way around it

Maybe sign him to a sponsorship deal right now while hes on the Bolts, but with the stipulation he only gets the money if hes in the city of Toronto during October-July for a miminum of 50 days for promotional "events" (aka only gets money when he signs in Toronto)

As far as the cap, Bettman is a push over with these issues. Im sure he wont challenge his main revenue driver

http://www.wingingitinmotown.com/20...ng-to-know-the-cba-paying-players-to-not-play

 

[Aceonfire*]

I'm sure if any other Canadian superstar who joined a Canadian Franchise would see an increase in their endorsement deals.

When it comes to income for the players, of course they are going to consider endorsement deal increases, just like they take into account favorable tax rates and cost of living in those cities.

Now we going to start a thread on how Florida's favorable income tax rates circumvent the cap ?

That's not even close to being the same...

What Kypreos is suggesting is that the Leafs will have pre-arranged sponsorship deals to lure him away from Tampa.

 

[Aceboogie]

I'm sure if any other Canadian superstar who joined a Canadian Franchise would see an increase in their endorsement deals.

When it comes to income for the players, of course they are going to consider endorsement deal increases, just like they take into account favorable tax rates and cost of living in those cities.

Now we going to start a thread on how Florida's favorable income tax rates circumvent the cap ?

I think this can potentially help a team and player alot more. Tax savings only go so far. You still have to pay him alot and it still impacts the cap.

This could be stretched to paying a play league minimum in NHL salary but pay him all in sponsorship deals

The Clarkson move was also another great move

 

[Spybot]

Everything will bear his face lol

First thing I thought when I read this was Stamkos branded notebooks in all of the TDSB schools

That's a good idea for the photoshop thread. Stamkos-covered Toronto like the billboards in They live.

 

[Aceonfire*]

Oh..it got moved and merged.

I don't get why these topics always get relegated here.

Things like expansion, relocation, and now this are big talking points. It goes beyond just the business of Hockey.

 

[The Thin White Duke]

Could an arrangement be made with another team? Ex: Rexall pays Stamkos, Rogers/Bell pay McDavid the same amount.

Alternatively, Stamkos and Rogers agree upon an amount, when Stamkos retires he's immediately given a consultant or brand ambassador role that includes the previously agreed upon amount (+ interest) as a signing bonus.

Or MLSE pays Drake a Stamkos-sized bonus, he features Stamkos as a 'contributor/writer' on his next album and gives him a % of the royalties capped at the amount of the bonus.

 

[Aceboogie]

http://www.wingingitinmotown.com/20...ng-to-know-the-cba-paying-players-to-not-play

Hmm interesting, I wonder if a good lawyer could get around that. There must be some way around "Club Affiliated entitys" either by related persons or related corporations

Rogers is a massive company with tons of related corporations and joint venues. Im sure somewhere along the tangled web of corporations they are in a JV or jointly owned by a person who owns a corporation in which a current leaf player is getting sponsorship money (if even with no bad intentions) and if they could exploit that

 

[Aceboogie]

Could an arrangement be made with another team? Ex: Rexall pays Stamkos, Rogers/Bell pay McDavid the same amount.

Alternatively, Stamkos and Rogers agree upon an amount, when Stamkos retires he's immediately given a consultant or brand ambassador role that includes the previously agreed upon amount (+ interest) as a signing bonus.

Thats a good one

I still think you could sign him to a deal with Tampa now with a big poision pill (this is done in NFL). "Rogers will give you 70M to be a spokesperson for next 10 years, however Toronto is a central location for our events so you must be present in Toronto for X days out of the year in order to be eligible for the money" Bascially only get the money if he plays hockey in Toronto

 

[The Thin White Duke]

Thats a good one

I still think you could sign him to a deal with Tampa now with a big poision pill (this is done in NFL). "Rogers will give you 70M to be a spokesperson for next 10 years, however Toronto is a central location for our events so you must be present in Toronto for X days out of the year in order to be eligible for the money" Bascially only get the money if he plays hockey in Toronto

Easy solution is for Rogers to give him half off his home phone/internet plan, I'm pretty sure that would add up to a couple million within a few years.

 

[Aceboogie]

Easy solution is for Rogers to give him half off his home phone/internet plan, I'm pretty sure that would add up to a couple million within a few years.

Hell get to be the one getting the calls in the Rogers commericals from Mess

What if a player has a well known wife or kid and Rogers or a corp gives a big deal to them instead?

 

[hatterson]

It isn't technically against the rules, but this is why we have lockouts. The league implements changes to the CBA and teams go out of their way to pay players more money.

Im generally curious as to what the CBA rules are? Are owners of a team not allowed to sign members of the team to any sponsorship deals of a corporation owned by the same person?

Maybe sign him to a sponsorship deal right now while hes on the Bolts, but with the stipulation he only gets the money if hes in the city of Toronto during October-July for a miminum of 50 days for promotional "events" (aka only gets money when he signs in Toronto)

(a) No Club or Club Actor, directly or indirectly, may: (i) enter into any agreements, promises, undertakings, representations, commitments, inducements, assurances of intent, or understandings of any kind, whether express, implied, oral or written, including without limitation, any SPC, Qualifying Offer, Offer Sheet or other transaction, or (ii) take or fail to take any action whatsoever, if either (i) or (ii) is intended to or has the effect of defeating or Circumventing the provisions of this Agreement or the intention of the parties as reflected by the provisions of this Agreement, including without limitation, provisions with respect to the financial and other reporting obligations of the Clubs and the League, Team Payroll Range, Player Compensation Cost Redistribution System, the Entry Level System and/or Free Agency.
(i) Any act by a Club Actor that, if committed by the Club would constitute a Circumvention, shall be imputed to the Club and shall be deemed to be a Circumvention by the Club.
(b) No Player or Player Actor, directly or indirectly, may: (i) enter into any agreements, promises, undertakings, representations, commitments, inducements, assurances of intent, or understandings of any kind, whether express, implied, oral or written, including 160 without limitation, any SPC, Qualifying Offer, Offer Sheet or other transaction, or (ii) take or fail to take any action whatsoever, if the Player knows or reasonably should have known (measured by the objective standard of the "reasonable Player under the circumstances") that either (i) or (ii) is intended to and has the effect of defeating or Circumventing the provisions of this Agreement or the intention of the parties as reflected by the provisions of this Agreement, including without limitation, provisions with respect to the Team Payroll Range, the Entry Level System and/or Free Agency.

That's the most relevant sections from the CBA.

Club Actor is defined as "any owner, shareholder, Club Affiliated Entity, the NHL or third party acting at the behest of a Club"

Player Actor is defined as " his Certified Agent or any other individual, any entity, or the NHLPA, acting on behalf of the Player"


Also keep in mind that playing a technicality won't work with the NHL, they don't have the same burden of proof that courts have and violating the "spirit" of the CBA, even if you didn't violate the specific wording, will cause issues.

That doesn't automatically disallow a player from signing an endorsement deal with a company associated with the team, however any such deals would be very heavily scrutinized and I could guarantee if Stamkos took a significant discount to come to Toronto and then suddenly became a prime "Rogers Sponsor" worth millions a year, the NHL would be all over it.

 

[amack081]

I think this can potentially help a team and player alot more. Tax savings only go so far. You still have to pay him alot and it still impacts the cap.

This could be stretched to paying a play league minimum in NHL salary but pay him all in sponsorship deals

The Clarkson move was also another great move

I'm being quite factious in regards to the taxes.

The point is that large endorsement deals are going to be offered to Stamkos regardless if he joins the Leafs. Whether he wants those endorsement deals to supplement or reduce his salary is up to him.

The issue is that Kyper mentions the Leafs, but most NHL teams have ties to some
large corporation who can offer endorsement deals.

 

[Aceboogie]

That's the most relevant sections from the CBA.

Club Actor is defined as "any owner, shareholder, Club Affiliated Entity, the NHL or third party acting at the behest of a Club"

Player Actor is defined as " his Certified Agent or any other individual, any entity, or the NHLPA, acting on behalf of the Player"


Also keep in mind that playing a technicality won't work with the NHL, they don't have the same burden of proof that courts have and violating the "spirit" of the CBA, even if you didn't violate the specific wording, will cause issues.

That doesn't automatically disallow a player from signing an endorsement deal with a company associated with the team, however any such deals would be very heavily scrutinized and I could guarantee if Stamkos took a significant discount to come to Toronto and then suddenly became a prime "Rogers Sponsor" with millions a year, the NHL would be all over it.

Im sure the Leafs could point to a situation in which player X is sponsored by Biosteel and then somewhere down the line of related corporations and joint ventures, Biosteel has some connection to Rogers. Then just exploit that by getting a far removed Rogers connected corp to do the sponsor

The CBA is loose, so it works for and against a team. For instance NHL bended CBA for New Jersey to get a 1st (even with clear cap circumvention). So with the biggest money maker, im sure theyd let some stuff go

I'm being quite factious in regards to the taxes.

The point is that large endorsement deals are going to be offered to Stamkos regardless if he joins the Leafs. Whether he wants those endorsement deals to supplement or reduce his salary is up to him.

The issue is that Kyper mentions the Leafs, but most NHL teams have ties to some
large corporation who can offer endorsement deals.

Itd be more the case Rogers wouldnt offer this deal if he was on any other team. But with your above point Rogers could argue they would have given it to him regardless. Stamkos could say he was taking a hometown discount (done before) and Rogers says they sponsor athletes (McDavid)

 

[cheswick]

Hell get to be the one getting the calls in the Rogers commericals from Mess

What if a player has a well known wife or kid and Rogers or a corp gives a big deal to them instead?

That would obviously contravene the CBA since they would be considered player actors and would be receiving compensation on behalf of the player.

I do know the Jets employ Jacob Trouba's brother though.... I assume he's making market salary for his position.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Looks like the Leafs will find another loophole to pay Stamkos the money he wants.

It isn't technically against the rules, but this is why we have lockouts. The league implements changes to the CBA and teams go out of their way to pay players more money.

Considering the amount of stuff that leaks out of the Leafs front office these days (zero) - I find it hard to believe Kypreos got this scoop....of all scoops. This is the type of thing that anyone involved in...they'd have to take it to their grave.

 

[cheswick]

Looks like the Leafs will find another loophole to pay Stamkos the money he wants.

It isn't technically against the rules, but this is why we have lockouts. The league implements changes to the CBA and teams go out of their way to pay players more money.

The way that is worded implies the Leafs are trying to work deals with some of their partners to give Stamkos endorsements. ie they are getting Tim Hortons and Canadian Tire to give him sponsorships deals. They wouldn't be giving him deals through their corporate arms. The CBA expressly says that it's ok for players to sign sponsorship deals with team sponsors. So getting a Leafs sponsor to sponsor Stamkos wouldn't contravene the CBA as it isn't Leafs (or a Leafs corporate entity) money going to Stamkos.

 

[hatterson]

The way that is worded implies the Leafs are trying to work deals with some of their partners to give Stamkos endorsements. ie they are getting Tim Hortons and Canadian Tire to give him sponsorships deals. They wouldn't be giving him deals through their corporate arms. The CBA expressly says that it's ok for players to sign sponsorship deals with team sponsors. So getting a Leafs sponsor to sponsor Stamkos wouldn't contravene the CBA as it isn't Leafs (or a Leafs corporate entity) money going to Stamkos.

It actually would, as the CBA includes "third party acting at the behest of a Club" in the definition of club actor.

 

[Aceonfire*]

Considering the amount of stuff that leaks out of the Leafs front office these days (zero) - I find it hard to believe Kypreos got this scoop....of all scoops. This is the type of thing that anyone involved in...they'd have to take it to their grave.

I wouldn't call it a scoop as much as I would say he is speculating with possible inside info.

And this would involve people from outside the Leafs. Rogers, agents, etc..

It would be hard to cover up. If the Leafs attempted this it would be playing with fire.

But who knows. The league may look the other way.