Rumor: Planning Ahead: 2019 Off-Season Part 2

[kilowatt]

I was pretty vocally upset at the Bjornfot pick on draft night simply because I thought there were better, more exciting players on the board. Bjornfot looks great and I’m really excited about him on our team, but I still think he’s another left-handed defenseman in the pipeline. He may now be our best - or at least in the top three - but that doesn’t change the fact that we have Clague, Anderson, Phillips, Brickley, Moverare, and Hults in the system.

Guys like Kaliyev are not particularly well-represented in the Kings system. We have a lot of second and third line forwards now too, and maybe even a first liner or three, but Kaliyev could pot 50 some day. How many times has a Kings player scored 30 goals in a season since 2010? Carter had 26 in 48 games in 2012-13, so I’ll give it to him. Toffoli had 31 in 2015-16. Carter had 32 in 2016-17. Kopitar had 35 in 2017-18.

That’s four in almost the past decade. We got Kaliyev at 33, I’m happy. But that’s not a lot of 30-goal seasons.

 

[BigKing]

We'll i wouldnt say they sweated it out because they actually got both the wingers they were targeting with that pick in Arthur and Samuel... add in Brink whom I believe was the other kid on the board
We blinded ourselves into thinking we needed to load up on offensive players when the reality was/is that 22OA was always going to be the BPA and that happened to be Bjornfot then and now. Arthur Kaliyev is irrelevant when having this conversation, would we feel differently had we landed Brink? Lavoie?
Bolded is the wrong way to think when it comes to drafting players because you paint yourself into a corner and select a kid who is much lower on your board for a perceived weakness. ... That's how we landed Hickey!

Kings Management said it themselves that they sweated it out. AK could have been taken numerous times after the Bjornfot pick.

Yes, we would have felt different. AK is not irrelevant to the discussion because my original point was to throw cold water on the Friday night Blake/Bjornfot backers that are taking victory laps.

Kings did not believe Bjornfot was the BPA necessarily but rather the best defenseman available and that the forwards at the top of Round 2 would be better than the available defensemen. Having gone forward-heavy in his first two drafts, Blake wanted a defenseman in Round 1. They rolled the dice and it paid off. Major kudos to them for reading the draft and winding up with both guys that they wanted. In the moment--the moment that led to people being upset with Blake for not taking AK--there weren't many that felt AK would be there when the Kings picked again. The "half wrong" crowd had every reason to be upset--in the moment--that Blake went safe at 22OA.

I mean, Pronman isn't the end all be all of prospect rankings, but he has AK at #19 OA and Bjornfot at #96 as far as best drafted prospects go. Again, I'm glad that Bjornfot is in the pipeline and it all worked out in the end but AK has a special talent that few possess so, yes, we would not be happy if AK didn't fall and we wound up with Brink instead.

 

[YP44]

I was pretty vocally upset at the Bjornfot pick on draft night simply because I thought there were better, more exciting players on the board. Bjornfot looks great and I’m really excited about him on our team, but I still think he’s another left-handed defenseman in the pipeline. He may now be our best - or at least in the top three - but that doesn’t change the fact that we have Clague, Anderson, Phillips, Brickley, Moverare, and Hults in the system.

Guys like Kaliyev are not particularly well-represented in the Kings system. We have a lot of second and third line forwards now too, and maybe even a first liner or three, but Kaliyev could pot 50 some day. How many times has a Kings player scored 30 goals in a season since 2010? Carter had 26 in 48 games in 2012-13, so I’ll give it to him. Toffoli had 31 in 2015-16. Carter had 32 in 2016-17. Kopitar had 35 in 2017-18.

That’s four in almost the past decade. We got Kaliyev at 33, I’m happy. But that’s not a lot of 30-goal seasons.

I wanted Brink and time will tell, Great that Bjornfot is looking so good though.

 

[kings11]

Kings Management said it themselves that they sweated it out. AK could have been taken numerous times after the Bjornfot pick.

Yes, we would have felt different. AK is not irrelevant to the discussion because my original point was to throw cold water on the Friday night Blake/Bjornfot backers that are taking victory laps.

Kings did not believe Bjornfot was the BPA necessarily but rather the best defenseman available and that the forwards at the top of Round 2 would be better than the available defensemen. Having gone forward-heavy in his first two drafts, Blake wanted a defenseman in Round 1. They rolled the dice and it paid off. Major kudos to them for reading the draft and winding up with both guys that they wanted. In the moment--the moment that led to people being upset with Blake for not taking AK--there weren't many that felt AK would be there when the Kings picked again. The "half wrong" crowd had every reason to be upset--in the moment--that Blake went safe at 22OA.

I mean, Pronman isn't the end all be all of prospect rankings, but he has AK at #19 OA and Bjornfot at #96 as far as best drafted prospects go. Again, I'm glad that Bjornfot is in the pipeline and it all worked out in the end but AK has a special talent that few possess so, yes, we would not be happy if AK didn't fall and we wound up with Brink instead.

I can't speak on the victory lappers but i was beyond happy with Bjornfot whom much like Rasmus Kupari was a top 10 player predraft year who put up similar numbers(previous YR vs draft YR) but evolved his game and matured and both fell in the draft. He was one of those kids that scouts drop the ball on because he didnt take a gigantic offensive leap, instead he doubled his goals and became a defensive stud... Also remembers these words, he was/is the best Dman on team Sweden.
Between TB and AK, Bjornfot is the 18YO who so far has looked like a special talent and the coaching staff agrees.. At his floor, Tobias lacks nothing and is a M.E. Vlasic type Dman... His upside, well he's still evolving so who knows

 

[dman3474]

I was one of them who was upset at the Bjornfot pick. The logic they used after about D vs fwd in the picks between them was sound, thats why they make the decisions and we don't. Very happy we ended up with AK in the end

 

[BigKing]

I can't speak on the victory lappers but i was beyond happy with Bjornfot whom much like Rasmus Kupari was a top 10 player predraft year who put up similar numbers(previous YR vs draft YR) but evolved his game and matured and both fell in the draft. He was one of those kids that scouts drop the ball on because he didnt take a gigantic offensive leap, instead he doubled his goals and became a defensive stud... Also remembers these words, he was/is the best Dman on team Sweden.
Between TB and AK, Bjornfot is the 18YO who so far has looked like a special talent and the coaching staff agrees.. At his floor, Tobias lacks nothing and is a M.E. Vlasic type Dman... His upside, well he's still evolving so who knows

AK was impressive in rookie camp and then looked great at the summer tourney against his peers. He has had the look of a special talent while Bjornfot looks good, although he wasn't always strong at the summer tourney.

I hope you aren't saying his floor is Vlasic. His ceiling is hopefully Vlasic.

AK's ceiling is ridiculous but his floor is below ground somewhere. We just have a lot of "safe" guys in the pipeline already so I'm much more excited about AK: as are most.

 

[kings11]

AK was impressive in rookie camp and then looked great at the summer tourney against his peers. He has had the look of a special talent while Bjornfot looks good, although he wasn't always strong at the summer tourney.

I hope you aren't saying his floor is Vlasic. His ceiling is hopefully Vlasic.

AK's ceiling is ridiculous but his floor is below ground somewhere. We just have a lot of "safe" guys in the pipeline already so I'm much more excited about AK: as are most.

Bjornfot's ceiling is Ryan McDonagh, the kid has not looked good, he's looked great.. He's looked as great as Mikey Anderson.. Its fine to fall for the offensive guys but dont undersell our Dman.. they're really, really good

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

 

[SettlementRichie10]

I love Hextall returning. No bullshit.

 

[BigKing]

Bjornfot's ceiling is Ryan McDonagh, the kid has not looked good, he's looked great.. He's looked as great as Mikey Anderson.. Its fine to fall for the offensive guys but dont undersell our Dman.. they're really, really good

That's fine...just making sure you weren't saying his floor is Vlasic.

I'm not saying I'm not happy to have Bjornfot in the pipeline. I'd still rather have AK if I had to choose. Very glad to have both and kudos all around for the strategy that led to both being selected.

 

[DoktorJeep]

I’d rather have Hexy back over Darryl Sutter.

 

[Choralone]

AK was impressive in rookie camp and then looked great at the summer tourney against his peers. He has had the look of a special talent while Bjornfot looks good, although he wasn't always strong at the summer tourney.

I hope you aren't saying his floor is Vlasic. His ceiling is hopefully Vlasic.

AK's ceiling is ridiculous but his floor is below ground somewhere. We just have a lot of "safe" guys in the pipeline already so I'm much more excited about AK: as are most.

I read nothing but good things about him between rookie camp and the summer prospect tournament. Pronman, for instance, had both Bjornfot and Kaliyev as two of thirteen standout prospects at the tournament amongst all teams. Jack Harris of the LA Times noted Bjornfot as one of four standouts at rookie camp after speaking with Stothers (the other three were Lizotte, JAD, and Akil Thomas). Lisa Dillman highlighted him at camp after speaking to Blake and another team's scout. (“Bjornfot has been impressive without the puck defensively,” the scout said.)

It doesn't take anything away from Kaliyev - I'm pulling for him, too. (I was elbow-dropping a fool on the main board who was trying to intimate something shady about his birth certificate or something stupid along those lines.)

 

[BigKing]

I read nothing but good things about him between rookie camp and the summer prospect tournament. Pronman, for instance, had both Bjornfot and Kaliyev as two of thirteen standout prospects at the tournament amongst all teams. Jack Harris of the LA Times noted Bjornfot as one of four standouts at rookie camp after speaking with Stothers (the other three were Lizotte, JAD, and Akil Thomas). Lisa Dillman highlighted him at camp after speaking to Blake and another team's scout. (“Bjornfot has been impressive without the puck defensively,” the scout said.)

It doesn't take anything away from Kaliyev - I'm pulling for him, too. (I was elbow-dropping a fool on the main board who was trying to intimate something shady about his birth certificate or something stupid along those lines.)

Didn't mean to imply that Bjornfot had a bad summer, but he didn't look great in the game that expert scout BigKing watched. It was only one game though.

When 18 year olds are really mature and have good hockey IQ, they are going to get a lot of immediate recognition from coaching and management. The question with Bjornfot is if he is going to be more than just smart and mature as he continues to grow physically.

Again, stoked to have him in the pipeline. I don't want any of my comments to imply I'm taking a dump on him.

 

[ibleedkings]

Watching Bjornfot last night was a treat. I think he could step in now and play.

 

[KingsHockey24]

Watching Bjornfot last night was a treat. I think he could step in now and play.

Flashback a few weeks ago when half our fan base was in tears we picked him over Kaliyev.

 

[Choralone]

Flashback a few weeks ago when half our fan base was in tears we picked him over Kaliyev.

Your spirit animal is a can of gasoline, isn't it?

 

[kings11]

That's fine...just making sure you weren't saying his floor is Vlasic.

I'm not saying I'm not happy to have Bjornfot in the pipeline. I'd still rather have AK if I had to choose. Very glad to have both and kudos all around for the strategy that led to both being selected.

This draft is a homerun

 

[SettlementRichie10]

I don’t understand the Bjornfot vs Kaliyev argument anymore.

BEFORE Kaliyev fell to 33, it was perfectly reasonable to criticize picking Bjornfot.

The Kings own literal scouting staff even had Kaliyev as a better prospect than Bjornfot, but felt compelled to pick a defenseman because of how the draft was going.

So what is the argument here? People who wanted Kaliyev should feel bad because Bjornfot is a good prospect, too? Yeah what a bummer dude

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I don't see what's so hard to understand that the initial rage of the Bjornfot pick subsided contingent upon the 2nd round pick of Kaliyev. No one ever said he was bad. Only that for a draft in which we needed scoring pop, leaving all that scoring on the board to go for a d-man was rage-inducing. Yes, the draft strategy worked, even though they were sweating like a whore in church over it. Everyone's happy to have both, but this board has fallen really hard upon it's need to say "I told you so" even harder than the Kings have sucked.

 

[Peter James Bond II]

AK was impressive in rookie camp and then looked great at the summer tourney against his peers. He has had the look of a special talent while Bjornfot looks good, although he wasn't always strong at the summer tourney.

I hope you aren't saying his floor is Vlasic. His ceiling is hopefully Vlasic.

AK's ceiling is ridiculous but his floor is below ground somewhere. We just have a lot of "safe" guys in the pipeline already so I'm much more excited about AK: as are most.

There weren’t all bad things. Check-ins back at Staples Center indicated strong games from Kale Clague and Tobias Bjornfot, the latter of whom drew a very positive evaluation from McLellan when prompted.
“I thought he was fine. Very seldom was he out of position,” said McLellan, who also shared a positive impression of Clague. “If [Bjornfot] was out of position, or it looked like he was out of position, it was usually because something else broke down and his thought process was correct. He’s been very impressive. A very impressive young man. I was telling Blakey he reminds me of one of his old partners in Marc-Edouard Vlasic. Young, confident, feels like he belongs, really good positionally. You have to watch him to really appreciate him, but that was Marc-Edouard in San Jose our first few years.”

 

[Ghetty Green]

Watching Bjornfot last night was a treat. I think he could step in now and play.

They said i was a fool when i said this after the draft

 

[kilowatt]

I don't see what's so hard to understand that the initial rage of the Bjornfot pick subsided contingent upon the 2nd round pick of Kaliyev. No one ever said he was bad. Only that for a draft in which we needed scoring pop, leaving all that scoring on the board to go for a d-man was rage-inducing. Yes, the draft strategy worked, even though they were sweating like a ****e in church over it. Everyone's happy to have both, but this board has fallen really hard upon it's need to say "I told you so" even harder than the Kings have sucked.

Agreed. I don’t get it. Literally everyone who was upset conceded that it was the right move and we were wrong. What more do you people want? Get Bjornfot on the phone, I’ll apologize to him too. We said it at the time - I’m happy we drafted Bjornfot - but if Kaliyev was taken at 23, we’d be staring down history. Where have I seen this before? Oh, right:

2010 draft:
Kings take Forbort at 15
Blues take Tarasenko at 16

 

[Sol]

When possession was throwing pucks at the other goalie, and there were competent defensemen, and they had C's that you knew would do what they needed to do, Quick's style of play worked very well. As the team has changed, as defensemen have disappeared left and right for various reasons, as the 4C went away, as the 3C went away, like any goalie, Quick's game has gotten exposed. Other teams find the weakness, and in Quick's case, it's the over aggressiveness. Since he's not quite Hasek, that aggressive play depends on others.

When he's on that fine line between athlete and goalie, he can be amazing. When he veers into being too much of an athlete, without the quality skaters in front of him to back him up, it can be a mess, and not just last year. If he's too much of a positional goalie, that's not who he is as a player, and it doesn't even look right. That's the question. With the age, with the injuries, can he be, how much longer can he be, the athlete he needs to be? If he has to change his game, is he Jonathan Quick anymore?

It's crazy, but you don't appreciate guys like Fraser, Stoll, and even 2014 Richards to some degree, until you can't find a way to replace them, for years on end. Lecavalier was a fun option, but very specific. If it meant he was back on the left point on the PP, never hitting the net with booming slappers, would we gladly take Stoll back? Tough enough replacing high level talent. The role players have to be the right guy at the right time too.

I was talking to my uncle about Quick and we came to the same conclusion at the end, the game is not as North to South anymore, there are much more east and west plays that expose goalies like Quick. He's gotten older and slower still his style hasn't adapted. He's been in the league so long that the book on him is much more detailed than ever before.


I rag on Quick a lot but you'd be kidding yourself if you told me the goalie we saw against Vegas in the playoffs ever shows up in that form consistently anymore. He's just a mediocre goalie now, and it's a shame that younger goalies aren't given the reigns to try out the spot.

I think there are a few problems in this team that stick out very visibly, Quicks role on this team needs to be severely limited, Carter needs to get addressed, and they need to swallow their pride, and put Forbort out to pasture. He's a bad 15 pick, Kings need to swallow their egos. Im tired of watching Doughty babysit 7th dmens.

Kopitar if he plays bad again this year needs a kick to the balls, and Doughty. (Can't do much about these guys hence honorary mentions)

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I was talking to my uncle about Quick and we came to the same conclusion at the end, the game is not as North to South anymore, there are much more east and west plays that expose goalies like Quick. He's gotten older and slower still his style hasn't adapted. He's been in the league so long that the book on him is much more detailed than ever before.


I rag on Quick a lot but you'd be kidding yourself if you told me the goalie we saw against Vegas in the playoffs ever shows up in that form consistently anymore. He's just a mediocre goalie now, and it's a shame that younger goalies aren't given the reigns to try out the spot.

I think there are a few problems in this team that stick out very visibly, Quicks role on this team needs to be severely limited, Carter needs to get addressed, and they need to swallow their pride, and put Forbort out to pasture. He's a bad 15 pick, Kings need to swallow their egos. Im tired of watching Doughty babysit 7th dmens.

Kopitar if he plays bad again this year needs a kick to the balls, and Doughty. (Can't do much about these guys hence honorary mentions)

He's not getting beaten on those east-west plays, though, and if anything, minus the exploding groin, that's one of Quick's strengths, no? The problem is getting sniped on straight shots after not getting set/reset.

Re: The boldfaced, yeah, we heard that after 2012, 2013, first few games of 2014 playoffs as well. You never know.

Now I definitely agree it's time to start turning over the reigns and at the very least limit Quick's workload for health if nothing else, he needs to not be a 50+ game goalie anymore.

 

[kilowatt]

He's not getting beaten on those east-west plays, though, and if anything, minus the exploding groin, that's one of Quick's strengths, no? The problem is getting sniped on straight shots after not getting set/reset.

Re: The boldfaced, yeah, we heard that after 2012, 2013, first few games of 2014 playoffs as well. You never know.

Now I definitely agree it's time to start turning over the reigns and at the very least limit Quick's workload for health if nothing else, he needs to not be a 50+ game goalie anymore.

If I had to guess, Quick and Campbell split time evenly this year. If Quick still has it, try to trade him. If there are no takers and Campbell plays well to, trade him. If both of them suck, well, I’ll just stop being a Kings fan, and it won’t be my problem anymore.