GWT: PL Matchweek (mostly) 8

[Live in the Now]

There's not much more to the result than the team is too poor defensively to play so defensively. Arsenal's strength is that they have some power going forward in midfield and they have a great striker. They need to start acting like it. Auba has hardly had any good scoring chances this season. And frankly, it's a very bad sign that Arsenal play so defensively because their margin for error is so slim. I know they don't give up very many goals, which people wrongly take to be "good defensively" but that's not the point. Being good defensively is supposed to help the team massively going forward. The team is supposed to be able to send players forward and not worry about the defenders doing their job. Being good defensively is supposed to mean winning the ball in areas that launch attacks. Instead they're good defensively in the way that a mid-table team is strong defensively. As far as it being a bad sign goes, usually a new manager puts their imprint on the team immediately and this is what Arteta has decided to do. They play more like Newcastle do than like a big team.


As for our game, I'm glad with the point, but again there are some major issues with the schedule as I said earlier. We already have a massive amount of players injured and some of them are hurt for that reason, but overall it's grossly unfair to the players and will negatively affect the entertainment value of these matches as the season goes on.

 

[Cucumber]

Auba will be fine.

For now but he isn't a league winning striker. I will say that much.

 

[Chimaera]

One player and a bunch of mugs isn’t going to win the league. I realize they have other good players, but not enough.

 

[Havre]

Not sure why people are complaining about Willian. I absolutely love him.

 

[spintheblackcircle]

Glad Klopp speaks out. Because of his stature hopefully someone will listen. Even more so as his reputation isn't of someone just moaning like for example Mourinho.

He's a whiner

 

[Havre]

He's a whiner

Doesn't matter - as I wrote his reputation is more the "good guy" (or at least that is my impression).

Similar to Pochettino also being a good guy - even if I have hardly seen a manager moan more than Pochettino did in his last months at Spurs (not moaning about refs etc.).

 

[spintheblackcircle]

Doesn't matter - as I wrote his reputation is more the "good guy" (or at least that is my impression).

Jose will say something with his typical scowl and Klopp will say the same thing with a smile and his glow in the dark teeth......

 

[AB13]

There's not much more to the result than the team is too poor defensively to play so defensively. Arsenal's strength is that they have some power going forward in midfield and they have a great striker. They need to start acting like it. Auba has hardly had any good scoring chances this season. And frankly, it's a very bad sign that Arsenal play so defensively because their margin for error is so slim. I know they don't give up very many goals, which people wrongly take to be "good defensively" but that's not the point. Being good defensively is supposed to help the team massively going forward. The team is supposed to be able to send players forward and not worry about the defenders doing their job. Being good defensively is supposed to mean winning the ball in areas that launch attacks. Instead they're good defensively in the way that a mid-table team is strong defensively. As far as it being a bad sign goes, usually a new manager puts their imprint on the team immediately and this is what Arteta has decided to do. They play more like Newcastle do than like a big team.


As for our game, I'm glad with the point, but again there are some major issues with the schedule as I said earlier. We already have a massive amount of players injured and some of them are hurt for that reason, but overall it's grossly unfair to the players and will negatively affect the entertainment value of these matches as the season goes on.

Yeah, you are totally right about Arteta. Hate to admit it, but the underlying numbers are very worrying. We don't sit deep usually though, so that is false, and we are genuinely solid defensively, but that is because we don't take enough risks in possession because Arteta does not want to be counter attacked, which is not acceptable at one of the biggest clubs in the world.

 

[Havre]

Liverpool went in to the season knowing they had limited depth in some areas. Can't really tell if that will hurt the team or not yet, but it was always a gamble.

As a general point I would agree - I don't see why you got to play the amount of games one is now asked to play. I would rather see less games and the best players fit to play those games than to having huge squads with a lot of rotation. You can always be "lucky" for a season or two playing players week in and week out without getting many injuries (to be fair that has happened to Liverpool for quite a while), but it incentivizes clubs to risking it. Basically what Liverpool have done, and I don't blame them at all, but now it might come back and bite them. We'll see. Lucky for Liverpool there is no team that is "guaranteed" to get 90 points this season - so even stumbling along at 80 might win you the league. Even with injuries Liverpool can certainly get to 80 - and then you are most likely in the title race come spring 2021.

 

[Jersey Fresh]

Yeah, wasn't Liverpool's lack of top-end depth and investment a topic this summer, especially among their own fans? They knew the fixture list and chose to minimally invest. I don't particularly get the whining.

Yes, the fixtures are insane right now, but acting like 5-subs is the elixir is overboard. Off top, most of the injuries Liverpool has weren't the result of too many minutes.

 

[Blender]

Not sure why people are complaining about Willian. I absolutely love him.

He's a really good player and has been for years, you're just using him wrong if you expect him to be the main attacking threat. He's also best used with an aggressive pressing system as he's fantastic at that.

 

[Havre]

He's a really good player and has been for years, you're just using him wrong if you expect him to be the main attacking threat. He's also best used with an aggressive pressing system as he's fantastic at that.

Not saying he hasn't been good. He has been a very solid work horse chipping in a decent amount of goals. And in terms of production he did surprisingly well last season, but how is anyone expect someone with that amount of miles in his legs to continue playing that style at the highest level in the PL at this stage? And how are you not supposed to play someone you just handed a huge 3 year contract?

I agree that he isn't as bad as the level he is currently playing at, but unless he moves to China I'm not seeing a good way out of this for Arsenal. As a squad player. Or as a Bale hoping to revive his career - sure - at 150k a week for 3 years - just another Sanchez.

 

[Chimaera]

They invested as much as they could in the Covid situation. I'm not sure if it's fair to say that they don't have depth either. They've never been able to have City or even Chelsea money.

So, admittedly, some of their situation will involve having some of the kids play, though, I think that's always been the plan. As it stands, they took a gamble on central defender, and that looks to have been a gamble, though I would justifiably put their 3, plus Fabinho against anyone else's top four. But I don't think they would really have expected to be 4-5 five on the shelf in midfield anytime soon. As it stands, their injury list is pretty ridiculous. Even Henderson, who's playing is nowhere near fit.

 

[YNWA14]

He's a really good player and has been for years, you're just using him wrong if you expect him to be the main attacking threat. He's also best used with an aggressive pressing system as he's fantastic at that.

I also think he'd work a lot better for Arsenal if they stopped trying to force Lacazette and used Aubameyang in his best position.

 

[S E P H]

Yeah, you are totally right about Arteta. Hate to admit it, but the underlying numbers are very worrying. We don't sit deep usually though, so that is false, and we are genuinely solid defensively, but that is because we don't take enough risks in possession because Arteta does not want to be counter attacked, which is not acceptable at one of the biggest clubs in the world.

Arteta has helped the defensive structure and I also agree that he has stopped this club from capitulating as well. However, we're playing too defensive at home which is making our entire tactics way too slow to break down counterattacking clubs. Like I said last week, we need to try a 4-4-2 with Laca and Auba on top in Europa and see what happens.

 

[Jersey Fresh]

Looking at this list, I also don't see any indication that teams in Europe are suffering more injuries than those not. Certainly not in a way that I think 5 subs would be making any appreciable difference.

 

[Gecklund]

Looking at this list, I also don't see any indication that teams in Europe are suffering more injuries than those not. Certainly not in a way that I think 5 subs would be making any appreciable difference.

I don’t think you’ll see injuries as much now. Season is still pretty fresh/new. You’ll see it around Christmas time.

 

[Jersey Fresh]

I don’t think you’ll see injuries as much now. Season is still pretty fresh/new. You’ll see it around Christmas time.

Very possible, though it was a super short run in after the end of restart.

We've talked about this before too, but it will be interesting to see the difference between leagues that have gone with 5 subs.

 

[robertmac43]

Hurts having Dunk, Trossard, and March out...

 

[Blender]

Manchester City one of the healthiest clubs in the league with by far the deepest bench, but they are crying poor about scheduling and player rotation.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Manchester City one of the healthiest clubs in the league with by far the deepest bench, but they are crying poor about scheduling and player rotation.

As they should these players arent robots you had their captain injured and complaining about this. It makes sense and it has nothing to do with by rich or how deep they are.

 

[Blender]

As they should these players arent robots you had their captain injured and complaining about this. It makes sense and it has nothing to do with by rich or how deep they are.

Of course they aren't robots, and injuries happen every year. The question is if there will be more injuries happening with 3 subs this year instead of 5, since that is what the complaint was about. For example, was it demonstrated that 5 subs last season resulted in fewer injuries than 3 subs did during the first half of the season?

 

[Live in the Now]

There have been 78 muscle injuries already for Premier League players this season, a 42 per cent increase from this stage in the previous campaign, reports Ali Humayun. The Athletic can reveal the number of muscle injuries suffered in the first five weeks of the season has skyrocketed this year, after a drastically reduced pre-season period and busier fixture schedule because of the impact of COVID-19. A number of Premier League managers have complained about shortened recovery periods between fixtures. Everton currently have eight players out injured after the first five gameweeks of the season, while Brighton & Hove Albion, Crystal Palace, Liverpool and Manchester United are all missing seven.

Revealed: How muscle injuries in the Premier League have soared this season

 

[Blender]

Revealed: How muscle injuries in the Premier League have soared this season

Finally some actual data, thanks.

Now, will 5 subs make a big difference, or do clubs need to start rotating their starting 11 more?

 

[Chimaera]

Looking at this list, I also don't see any indication that teams in Europe are suffering more injuries than those not. Certainly not in a way that I think 5 subs would be making any appreciable difference.

Some of this information is misleading. Keita, Matip, Shaqiri, Milner, Gomez, Tsmikas, Henderson, Alisson, and Mane (though it was just dead leg) have all been out at some point this season. There's only been 8 matches in the league.

Sure, some of these would happen anyhow. Additionally, there's no question that there are other injuries that are not disclosed, and are more of the type like Mane had, with dead leg, or stuff that they're playing through. I'm also not going to argue with the fact that Liverpool has played a brutal number of matches. Especially over the last two or three seasons for many of these players. But, it's no shock that hamstring, thigh, muscle type of injuries are popping up with more regularity, and that's clearly due to the lack of a preseason, and the frequency of matches.

I don't know if 5 subs, as to 3 subs solves it, because Klopp and Pep didn't even use all 3 as it stood, but it would allow him to give a planned rest like he has in the CL to players. Give top guys 60 minutes. Pull 3 guys off if you're up 2-3.