GWT: PL Matchweek 9

[les Habs]

Solskjaer's post match interviews such a breath of fresh air after Klopp's.

 

[YNWA14]

Rough game. My issue isn’t necessarily with this game in a vacuum but that this has been a pretty standard performance from Liverpool this season; very passive and relying on moments of magic rather than looking great systemically (like City for example). Liverpool have hardly been playing at a level that would suggest they continue ‘unbeaten’ (already were beaten by Napoli deservedly).

Matip and Fabinho were awful (Matip especially) and somehow it’s Wijnaldum who again was our best midfielder gets the pull for Keita when Fab was on a yellow. Firmino has some great moments of build up but his final product was sorely lacking. Chambo actually looked pretty threatening while Origi was terrible. Overall a really poor performance though I don’t think United deserved their goal or a lot of the calls they got, it happens. We should have been better regardless.

Seeing salty Barcelona supporters have their say makes it a little lighter though.

Anyway on to the next. A team better than United awaits on the weekend so hopefully Liverpool can find a little urgency and spark in their play.

 

[Savant]

Wijnaldum was their best midfielder today for sure. I did feel like he gassed out a bit so I didn’t mind the sub. He played a lot of minutes during international break. Keita and Chamberlain offered more than Henderson today for sure.

 

[hatterson]

That seems about right. The goals were the only real chances of the game.

Next best would likely be Firmino’s shot on the break in the first half.

United didn’t really give up anything/Liverpool didn’t create anything beyond the chance that was really more a missed assignment than a real created chance.

Similar the other way outside the fast break that likely shouldn’t have happened due to a foul.

 

[Savant]

Atkinson was worth that 0.3 differential today.

OGS said the referee was man of the match today.

Man Utd 1-1 Liverpool: Ole Gunnar Solskjaer says referee was 'man of the match' - BBC Sport

 

[YNWA14]

Yeah.

Also Klopp made a good point about VAR and the decision making process. In short I think the idea is that VAR is good with clearly defined rules (offisde, goals involving handball, etc.) but right now it's causing issue where a referee will not be decisive because they feel they can fall back on VAR but VAR won't be decisive because they will always defer to the on field decision if it's even remotely close (I think there are penalties and punishment type stuff for refs who get overturned by VAR, though that might be only in specific situations). This means that ultimately a lot of calls will be missed or wrongfully done because VAR is not currently used to make calls but generally to confirm there's no obvious error, while supposedly officials are trying to defer some calls because they feel like if it's missed that VAR will pick it up. It becomes kind of a mess that reminds me of two people who don't want to make a decision so none is made. Not specific to any one incident in this game persay, but still something I hope that they're aware of because it's a good point.

 

[hatterson]

I don’t think Atkinson changed his calls because of VAR, that’s just the type of official he is. It’s like complaining that Moss let a bunch of stuff go in a game. That’s what he does and he’s done it for years.

He made several other calls in much more directly dangerous situations during the game, so it’s not like there was a pattern of letting things go to see how VAR would respond.

 

[YNWA14]

Like I said I wasn't referring to any specific incident today but the way the system works in general. There just needs to be more decisiveness; it was a clear foul today and if that's what VAR is looking at it should overturn it but because of the way they are using it currently it left it open for not overturning the goal. I don't know what the decision process was like for the Watford or City penalties that both should have been called, but to my recollection there has not been a single penalty call/non-call overturned by VAR and the refs haven't even used the screen area.

 

[Burner Account]

All the talk about De Gea and ultimately it wouldn't have mattered who played because Liverpool created virtually nothing.

 

[bluesfan94]

Why? It’s a draw they should have won.

Because Liverpool wasn’t nearly as dominant as City was and the xG both ways supports that

 

[Live in the Now]

First bad result of the league campaign. All comes crashing down apparently.

Solskjaer's post match interviews such a breath of fresh air after Klopp's.

His guiding United to *looks at table* 13th place is also such a breath of fresh air.

 

[YNWA14]

IIRC if you watch it again it looks like he kicked Origi in the shin and his leg came down on the achillies/back of calf area of Origi afterward, which would be why Origi is holding that leg (or at least what he wanted them to see).

 

[Chimaera]

I mean theatrics or not, is it legal to kick a guy in the leg? I’m not shocked it held, but I’ve seen less than that go for a free kick. It is usually pretty automatic, but it happens I guess.

Liverpool definitely shut off after that, but that wasn’t the reason they drew.

No cutting edge and no pressure created really until the last ten or so. I think Liverpool were worried about the counter from Rashford and James.

 

[les Habs]

His guiding United to *looks at table* 13th place is also such a breath of fresh air.

Yeah, guiding United to 13th place and taking a point off Liverpool in the process whilst also keeping them from breaking City's record is such a breath of fresh air. And to think, he didn't feel the need to make excuses, mis-characterize the match or bitch at the ref all match long.

 

[Live in the Now]

Yeah, guiding United to 13th place and taking a point off Liverpool in the process whilst also keeping them from breaking City's record is such a breath of fresh air. And to think, he didn't feel the need to make excuses, mis-characterize the match or ***** at the ref all match long.

The ref was absolute shit. I think you know more than most how shit a referee can be.

VAR is shit. I don't think anyone mischaracterized the match at all. Solskjaer said himself that the referee was the man of the match and I think there's no doubt as to what that actually means.

Klopp said he wasn't happy with Liverpool's performance in addition to the referee. Both are true.

 

[les Habs]

The ref definitely wasn't good, but I don't know I'd say absolute shit. I suppose it's a matter of perception. As for VAR, while I don't think it's used as it could and should be, I wouldn't say it's shit.

Klopp absolutely mis-characterized the match. He said "they were purely there to defend us". Then he went on to say about Liverpool - United generally speaking since he's been in England that "one team plays only to defend and the other team has to make the game." I also think he made it seem as though during the last part of that match that Liverpool actually played better than they did. Klopp also mentioned Mane's disallowed goal.

As for Solskjaer's comment on the ref, it seems that people can't interpret it properly. In the meantime Klopp laughably said Atkinson surely let the game run because of VAR. Because in a match of this caliber a ref has never let it run before.

 

[les Habs]

I don't have a horse in this race, but I will call out the revisionism someone posted about the challenge on Origi. Lindelof's foot did not come "down on the achillies/back of calf area of Origi afterward." On top of that Origi is indeed clutching the wrong leg.

 

[Gecklund]

I don't have a horse in this race, but I will call out the revisionism someone posted about the challenge on Origi. Lindelof's foot did not come "down on the achillies/back of calf area of Origi afterward." On top of that Origi is indeed clutching the wrong leg.

Yeah Lindelof did kick him there’s no doubt but it was anything more than a simple tap to the shin.

 

[YNWA14]

No one said his foot came down on the back of his leg, though I know that reading is difficult.

 

[hatterson]

It was a tap to the shin and then a knee/shin to the back of the other leg. That’s almost always given as a foul, although I do think Origi tried to sell it because his touch got away from him and he was likely losing the ball anyway.

 

[Chimaera]

Oh he tried to sell it.

But that leads to the question of, how much more does he have to sell it if it's a foul?

 

[Savant]

Oh he tried to sell it.

But that leads to the question of, how much more does he have to sell it if it's a foul?

“Selling it” is not a a Liverpool or Origi problem. It’s a soccer problem. Foul is a foul. James sold plenty yesterday. The problem was Atkinson being inconsistent

 

[Jussi]

The ref definitely wasn't good, but I don't know I'd say absolute ****. I suppose it's a matter of perception. As for VAR, while I don't think it's used as it could and should be, I wouldn't say it's ****.

Klopp absolutely mis-characterized the match. He said "they were purely there to defend us". Then he went on to say about Liverpool - United generally speaking since he's been in England that "one team plays only to defend and the other team has to make the game." I also think he made it seem as though during the last part of that match that Liverpool actually played better than they did. Klopp also mentioned Mane's disallowed goal.

As for Solskjaer's comment on the ref, it seems that people can't interpret it properly. In the meantime Klopp laughably said Atkinson surely let the game run because of VAR. Because in a match of this caliber a ref has never let it run before.

I'm pretty sure Solsjaer has witnessed Martin Atkinson's refereeing on the pitch and knows that by his standards, that was a good game.

I think the real issue here is that people want a free kick for a slight touch on the calf of a player already falling down IN THE BLOODY ENGLISH PREMIER LEAGUE. The league that takes pride in tough, physical play!

 

[Savant]

I'm pretty sure Solsjaer has witnessed Martin Atkinson's refereeing on the pitch and knows that by his standards, that was a good game.

I think the real issue here is that people want a free kick for a slight touch on the calf of a player already falling down IN THE BLOODY ENGLISH PREMIER LEAGUE. The league that takes pride in tough, physical play!

OGS called Atkinson man of the match. There is a difference between not allowing physical play and being inconsistent.

He penalised the visitors for 14 fouls where the home side only committed six infringements. For context, the foul count last season was 15-17, which perhaps seems more in line with expectation. According to the referee, United didn’t commit any fouls between the 22nd and 72nd minutes. As unlikely as that sounds, not least as they made nine of their match total of 11 tackles in that period”

This game was officiated very poorly. Atkinson was the man of the match. He broke up more LFC possession than anyone on the home team

 

[YNWA14]

It was a tap to the shin and then a knee/shin to the back of the other leg. That’s almost always given as a foul, although I do think Origi tried to sell it because his touch got away from him and he was likely losing the ball anyway.

This is how I saw it also; Origi had a heavy touch so when he felt the defender come into him from behind he was looking for a reason to go down. There was obvious contact and Origi made the most of it. The thing is that usually in those situations where it's the defender initiating contact from behind a foul is almost always given (I think when the attacker initiates the contact it's different).

Anyway, it doesn't really matter. As Klopp said Liverpool should have been better officiating aside, and they should have been. They played scared at Old Trafford and were largely playing on the periphery without any urgency so they deserved the result they got.