PL Matchweek 9

YNWA14

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All reports from reliable people were that FSG were ready to fully support Klopp financially and make multiple record signings. I believe it was entirely Klopp's call. He's been very consistent in his belief in his current squad.
 

Live in the Now

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All reports from reliable people were that FSG were ready to fully support Klopp financially and make multiple record signings. I believe it was entirely Klopp's call. He's been very consistent in his belief in his current squad.

Yeah, the penny is about to drop and the same stuff we hear every summer that never happens. Yes, of course. That stuff.
 

Cassano

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I think you're misunderstanding. Klopp wasn't the person who decided to only sign Oxlade-Chamberlain. I am very certain he would have wanted all three of those players.
lopp was also the one who said there aren't 5 better CBs than what they have coming into the season.
 

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lopp was also the one who said there aren't 5 better CBs than what they have coming into the season.

Completely aware. That's the kind of comment a manager makes when they have no money to go buy one. Klopp is paid a lot of money to go out there and make that comment.

I will present these. Look up how much money they spent after these two articles.

http://www.goal.com/en/news/9/engli...liverpool-may-break-club-transfer-record-this

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2009/jun/05/liverpool-rafael-benitez-transfers

I will save you the trouble of looking. There was no net spend whatsoever.

The following is another good one. With these same owners in fact.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2012/aug/29/brendan-rogers-andy-carroll-liverpool

The Liverpool manager wishes to sign Theo Walcott, despite Arsène Wenger's desire to hold on to the player, and has deals lined up for the remainder of this transfer window. Any permanent captures over the next 48 hours, however, rest on raising funds and reducing the wage bill from the existing squad, meaning one or more of Carroll, Charlie Adam, Joe Cole and Jay Spearing will have to go for Walcott or Fulham's Clint Dempsey to move to Merseyside.

All those players left. They did not sign anyone.

There is not a single manager in the entire world who will leave money sitting there when they have been told it's there to spend it. Their jobs, careers, and lives depend on retaining their job. We have pretty smart people here, everyone should know the reality of the workplace. For whatever reason Klopp believed he did not have enough money to buy a quality defender. Sanchez for example cost more than they spent on Oxlade-Chamberlain.
 
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Havre

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Now we are talking some heavy conspiracy stuff. Ox over Lemar? Don´t believe that for a second.
 

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Not sure to whom you are referring. Nobody with the money to buy Lemar would pick Ox. Ever.

There's no conspiracy. Liverpool claim to have money every summer and never spend it. Common sense says there's not money to spend.

This summer was the last time I ever believe that line of crap.
 
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Havre

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The post is on the last page.

Not sure why anyone would believe there is money. Quite easy looking at the clubs turnover to roughly estimate how much they are likely to spend.

I guess one could always pray for the owners to bankroll the team, but why would they? Similar to Spurs in many ways. Got a rich owner, but one that won’t spend his own money on the club (which I think is a good thing).
 

Evilo

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A lot of people here know what Lemar wanted to do.
You're good, because he never said something clear about it.
 

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lopp was also the one who said there aren't 5 better CBs than what they have coming into the season.
This comment gets way overblown on this board IMO. Do you think it's more likely that Klopp actually believes that, or that he knows it's not true and was trying to instill some confidence in Lovren?
 

YNWA14

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It's not just Lovren though. Matip has been brutal, and it doesn't help when the have Can, Moreno and two teenagers manning the right flank this season with limited experience. Finally Mignolet hasn't been as good as he was last year either.

Our defence, or more importantly our defensive structure, needs a complete overhaul. TAA and Gomez are very promising, as is Robertson, and it'll be nice to have Clyne back but something that would really help this team is a true defensive midfielder. Not every team needs one, but this one does. Can's issues aside, nobody in this midfield has the discipline to really protect our defence and there's always missed marks and huge gaping holes in the midfield at different points in the game.
 

Edo

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All reports from reliable people were that FSG were ready to fully support Klopp financially and make multiple record signings. I believe it was entirely Klopp's call. He's been very consistent in his belief in his current squad.

You guys should be calling for Klopp's head then. Everybody saw holes in Liverpools squad.
 

YNWA14

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You guys should be calling for Klopp's head then. Everybody saw holes in Liverpools squad.
A lot of people were complaining about it, but we also support our manager and hope that he can do a lot with what he's got. This season goes a long way in forming my opinion of Klopp.
 

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You guys should be calling for Klopp's head then. Everybody saw holes in Liverpools squad.

Klopp gets the rest of the season from me. He shouldn’t be Teflon though.
 

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A lot of people were complaining about it, but we also support our manager and hope that he can do a lot with what he's got. This season goes a long way in forming my opinion of Klopp.

How many players on this current team would be in the starting XI on a silverware winning Liverpool side besides Keita, Mane and Coutinho (who will leave this summer without CL). Maybe Lallana and Salah? That’s it. Matip, Firmino and Wijnaldum could be on the bench, maybe Henderson. Clyne probably, the kids like Gomez, Woodburn and Trent; maybe Solanke.

That’s probably it. It’s a problem. Carragher said it best. The defense has been a problem since Rodgers and besides Matip, it’s the same personnel. Insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results. The players aren’t good enough and Klopp isn’t elevating them either. Something isn’t right.
 

Cassano

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It's not just Lovren though. Matip has been brutal, and it doesn't help when the have Can, Moreno and two teenagers manning the right flank this season with limited experience. Finally Mignolet hasn't been as good as he was last year either.

Our defence, or more importantly our defensive structure, needs a complete overhaul. TAA and Gomez are very promising, as is Robertson, and it'll be nice to have Clyne back but something that would really help this team is a true defensive midfielder. Not every team needs one, but this one does. Can's issues aside, nobody in this midfield has the discipline to really protect our defence and there's always missed marks and huge gaping holes in the midfield at different points in the game.
Klopp don't do DMs
 

YNWA14

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How many players on this current team would be in the starting XI on a silverware winning Liverpool side besides Keita, Mane and Coutinho (who will leave this summer without CL). Maybe Lallana and Salah? That’s it. Matip, Firmino and Wijnaldum could be on the bench, maybe Henderson. Clyne probably, the kids like Gomez, Woodburn and Trent; maybe Solanke.

That’s probably it. It’s a problem. Carragher said it best. The defense has been a problem since Rodgers and besides Matip, it’s the same personnel. Insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results. The players aren’t good enough and Klopp isn’t elevating them either. Something isn’t right.

I don't really agree with your assessment. Mane, Salah, Firmino, Coutinho, Wijnaldum and Clyne would/could all be starters on a silverware winning side.

Guys like Lovren and Matip go from team of the season type play on other teams to terrible perofrmances with Liverpool. Look at teams like Swansea, Southampton, Brighton, Huddersfield, etc. who have allowed less goals than Liverpool -- do they have better defenders? The answer is pretty straightforward: they don't. They can organize their defence better though and their midfield makes a point of taking care of their defenders as well.

Now, I'm not advocating that Liverpool play negatively or anything like that. I don't enjoy watching Mourinhoball. There is a middle ground to that though. You can be defensively responsible while still creating chances and making use of offensive talents. You can blame the defenders all day, and yes if you want to play the way that Klopp is trying to play you need your defence to be perfect and the players we have right now are not. But that's the problem; Klopp has had more than enough time to recognize that we do not have the defence or midfield to play the style that he wants to play without leaking goals. He has to be pragmatic and adjust to that.

Even though it wasn't something Rodgers got enough time with, or had the right players up front for, when he switched to the 3-4-3 that was a stroke of genius and very forward thinking. He identified the issues with the team and then ended up going on a long unbeaten run where our defence was actually fantastic (we went on a 13 game unbeaten streak only giving up 9 goals before the season fell apart at the end amid all the dumb stuff going on). I'm still not sure why he didn't keep on with that after being so successful (now of course we see Chelsea and Spurs having a ton of success with the same formation essentially).
 
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Edo

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I don't really agree with your assessment. Mane, Salah, Firmino, Coutinho, Wijnaldum and Clyne would/could all be starters on a silverware winning side.

That's pretty ridiculous. Salah was a Chelsea reject not so long ago, you can take him out of that group. None of those guys make a 2018 EPL winning Manchester City. How many of those guys make Arsenal, Chelsea, or United?
 

Havre

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A full year after De Bruyne left Chelsea.

Too much focus on individual players anyway. Could have said the same thing about Brown, O´Shea etc. etc.

The year of the famous slip Pool almost won the league with Flanagan playing 23 games.
 

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My list may or may not have been conservative, but to me out of the players that will be at Liverpool next season, only Mane and Keita are good enough in my opinion. Salah can get there if he gets his conversion rate up. Lallana if he is in the same form as last year gets in but that’s it. Firmino doesn’t finish enough. Wijnaldum is not consistent enough. The players are not good enough
 

YNWA14

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Not sure why people focus on Firmino's finishing rate. He's not a striker, at least not in the traditional sense.

A full year after De Bruyne left Chelsea.

Too much focus on individual players anyway. Could have said the same thing about Brown, O´Shea etc. etc.

The year of the famous slip Pool almost won the league with Flanagan playing 23 games.

Yep, with Henderson playing class B2B (Rodgers claims we lost the title when he saw red at City). Glen Johnson, Martin Skrtel, Simon Mignolet, Joe Allen, etc.

Chelsea won the league with Victor Moses. While it's important to have some top class players the structure, approach, fit and coaching matter more.
 

Savant

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Not sure why people focus on Firmino's finishing rate. He's not a striker, at least not in the traditional sense.

People should focus on Firmino’s finishing rate because he is a striker at Liverpool. Traditionally or not, strikers have to score goals. Period. There strikers are a disaster. They need to overhaul that position completely. I think there is a role for Firmino but they need a better finisher ASAP
 

Havre

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A mistake by Klopp in my opinion. Not getting the best out of Firmino. I personally think he could have been amazing as a second striker next to Kane in Pochettino's system. Unfortunately Spurs will never be able to buy him.

I think Liverpool got a lot going for the team, but I also think 2+2 is 3.8 at the moment for them. Partly down to Klopp and co. not having the right structure in the squad. Same with Arsenal. Chelsea probably a bit the opposite last year. 2+2 became 4.2. Probably also for Spurs the last couple of years. The team is better than the individual players. When Spurs have to play Winks away to Madrid it just works at the moment. Not necessarily because all the squad players are so talented, but because everyone (at the moment) play with such confidence.
 

Corto

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Guys like Lovren and Matip go from team of the season type play on other teams to terrible perofrmances with Liverpool. Look at teams like Swansea, Southampton, Brighton, Huddersfield, etc. who have allowed less goals than Liverpool -- do they have better defenders? The answer is pretty straightforward: they don't. They can organize their defence better though and their midfield makes a point of taking care of their defenders as well.


That's the thing. I mean, yeah, Lovren finally snapped under pressure last game, I'm not making excuses for him.
But him and Matip are getting very limited help from the midfield - not because Henderson or Can are lazy, but simply because the team is set up that way.

Klopp's style of play is great, but it tends to fall off as season goes on, and yes, your center backs will be getting exposed and put in hard situations much more often than guys at Soton or WBA or ManU will.
And once that stars to backfire, the style of play suddenly matters much less.
 

YNWA14

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People should focus on Firmino’s finishing rate because he is a striker at Liverpool. Traditionally or not, strikers have to score goals. Period. There strikers are a disaster. They need to overhaul that position completely. I think there is a role for Firmino but they need a better finisher ASAP
Then you don't understand the system. Firmino's job isn't to score goals it's to facilitate the play for the wide forwards (the main goal scorers) and the midfielders. If he pots some goals too that's great, but how his role works just isn't made to have him be prolific. He should be a 10 but we don't play the 4-2-3-1 that would suit him best.
 

Savant

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Then you don't understand the system. Firmino's job isn't to score goals it's to facilitate the play for the wide forwards (the main goal scorers) and the midfielders. If he pots some goals too that's great, but how his role works just isn't made to have him be prolific. He should be a 10 but we don't play the 4-2-3-1 that would suit him best.

I understand the system. The system just sucks. It only really works if both Mane and Salah are in the lineup which hasn’t happened as much this year as it should have due to injuries and suspension. Either way strikers need to score goals. I understand that Firmino needs to facilitate and press and all that other stuff but it’s not working and teams have probably figured it out as well. I don’t think they even have the personnel to go 4231 until the summer, but I don’t think that formation gets the best out of Keita either. I’d rather see 442 and get Firmino a striker partner up front that can finish, (anything to keep Firmino from going wide), but it’s a similar end solution. Who they can get if they don’t have CL is another story.
 

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