GWT: PL matchweek 4

[Baxterman]

garbage squad sitting above Man City in the standings?

Its 4 games in

 

[Corto]

Regarding the Sane "controversy", apparently Kroos said this about him in an interview:

"You sometimes get the feeling that it doesn't matter to him if we win or lose. It's about showing his qualities. Then he can be an absolute weapon for us," Kroos said and added:
"He has got everything to become a world-class player, but sometimes, he needs to be told what to do. If he brings all his quality to the pitch, he can help us a lot."

Kroos: It feels like Sané doesn't care sometimes - Bundesliga News

I don't know, sort of harsh to say about your teammate, but then again, Sane is a guy who has a tattoo of himself across his entire back, so I can't say I'd be surprised.

 

[Evilo]

More importantly, when Kroos refuses to run because he's lazy and players run past him like a breeze, does he care?

 

[Chimaera]

I mean, I'm not one to defend Kroos, but is it because he won't run, or because he's so slow he really can't do much to catch them? Or feels that isn't his role in the side?

I also think there's a bit of truth the fact that some players do concern themselves with more how did they play and less in helping the team win. I'm not sure that's always Sane, but I do think that's a problem for some younger players who focus more about the highlight goal the bang in from 30 yards, even if their team is getting drubbed or their man is just dancing by them each time.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Everyone's played with guys who cared more about their stats than the result of the game. And having a massive tattoo featuring yourself is perhaps a bit of a sign that guy is you. Selfishness isn't a good look in team sports and will lead to underachievement relative to your skill and talent.

 

[Evilo]

I mean, I'm not one to defend Kroos, but is it because he won't run, or because he's so slow he really can't do much to catch them? Or feels that isn't his role in the side?

Well, when players breeze through him in midfield, maybe his teammates feel he doesn't care too?

Problem is that he felt the need to talk about it in the media.
Kroos is completely full of himself if he thinks he can talk about other players' commitment in the media. Especially since he's hardly perfect in that commitment on the field. Not surprised though, he always struck me as someone who's full of himself.
A true leader would have talked to Sane directly about his doubts/questions. Not spread it in the media.

 

[Chimaera]

Maybe he has?

I don't think it's as white or black as it seems.

 

[KJS14]

Also funny how Kroos is getting defended for letting guys run past him constantly in midfield, but Ozil gets criticism every single week for not tracking back even though he plays further up the pitch. For Kroos it's not his job/role, but for Ozil he's just lazy.

 

[S E P H]

If Sane doesn't care at times, send him to Arsenal. I would love him to "not care" for us much more than wasting away in Manchester.

 

[Evilo]

Maybe he has?

I don't think it's as white or black as it seems.

Oh the black on white in the papers seems very clear to me.

 

[Live in the Now]

Also funny how Kroos is getting defended for letting guys run past him constantly in midfield, but Ozil gets criticism every single week for not tracking back even though he plays further up the pitch. For Kroos it's not his job/role, but for Ozil he's just lazy.

From one scapegoat in Ozil to another in Sane. Kroos made comments about them both as well.

I wonder what Ozil and Sane could possibly have in common to receive such outlandish comments. I don't really wonder btw, it's quite obvious exactly what this is.

 

[bluesfan94]

From one scapegoat in Ozil to another in Sane. Kroos made comments about them both as well.

I wonder what Ozil and Sane could possibly have in common to receive such outlandish comments. I don't really wonder btw, it's quite obvious exactly what this is.

The goddamn EPL

 

[robertmac43]

If Sane doesn't care at times, send him to Arsenal. I would love him to "not care" for us much more than wasting away in Manchester.

I second, third, and fourth this notion.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

How could Sane be a scapegoat for the World Cup when he wasn't even there? Kroos also got plenty of criticism during the World Cup, which his late winner vs Sweden unfortunately somewhat quieted (unfortunatelz because the same criticism were still valid thereafter).

The comments by Kroos however do hint at perhaps why Sane didn't seem to gel with the team and didn't look particularly effective in the games he got to play with the national team..which in turn probably caused Löw to not nominate him. Now I would say that Löw, who has probably nominated more ethnic non-German players for the team than any other Germany manager, is above the notion that Sane's background played a role in him not being nominated.

It's just lazy race card playing (even though of course Ozil is white and would be considered as such in the U.S. census) unless you want to insinuate without evidence that Kroos himself has a problem playing with ethnics - which would seem weird given that playing for Real and Bayern many of those would have been his teammates and nobody ever said anything about Kroos having an issue with it.

 

[Chimaera]

I don’t think it’s as clear as trying to paint it as racism by Kroos, but there’s enough blame to go around for more than just him, Sane and Ozil in their failures.

I think too much is being made of all of it, and it doesn’t get to the root of the problem for the German team at this point. I’d be interested to see what my cousins think of the actual interview and a bit more context, but it’s obviously a bad look. But I don’t think this point reaches any particular racist connotation. The Ozil stuff was much more xenophobic, where this in my mind is more about the players style and effort than any particular black and white thing. God knows there’s enough racism still in football, but I think the German team and other European sides like Belgium, France and England have done more for inclusivity (if they can get some dinosaurs out of the media with the Sterling rubbish) than had happened in generations. That said, I still find it crazy at the lack of opportunity for minority management, but I’ve said that before

 

[Corto]

From one scapegoat in Ozil to another in Sane. Kroos made comments about them both as well.

I wonder what Ozil and Sane could possibly have in common to receive such outlandish comments. I don't really wonder btw, it's quite obvious exactly what this is.

ROFL are you accusing Kroos of racism here?

That's hilarious.

Is Pep racist as well? Because right now, Sane is being called out in public and benched by him.

...

Absolute rubbish.
And what comments did Kroos make about Özil, do tell.
As far as I know, he only made comments whether he thinks Özil and his agent are right when they say Özil is being singled out because of his heritage - and Kroos said no, there's no racism in the German team.

...

The Kroos hatred is getting to some hilarious levels.
Not only is this guy, who won a WC and 4 CL titles, all as a starter, perpetually mentioned by almost all players and managers as one of the very top midfielders in the world, constantly underrated by folks who either hate him or don't understand football enough to appreciate a certain type of midfielder - now he's apparently a racist as well.
Based on... Well, f*****g nothing, really.

 

[YNWA14]

Yeah...that was a really weird comment (the racism card).

 

[hatterson]

ROFL are you accusing Kroos of racism here?

That's hilarious.

Is Pep racist as well? Because right now, Sane is being called out in public and benched by him.

That's what Yaya said

 

[The Abusement Park]

That's what Yaya said

I mean to be fair he didn’t get a cake for his birthday...

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

I mean to be fair he didn’t get a cake for his birthday...

Pep calling the shots even before his arrival... like a boss.

 

[KJS14]

ROFL are you accusing Kroos of racism here?

That's hilarious.

Is Pep racist as well? Because right now, Sane is being called out in public and benched by him.

...

Absolute rubbish.
And what comments did Kroos make about Özil, do tell.
As far as I know, he only made comments whether he thinks Özil and his agent are right when they say Özil is being singled out because of his heritage - and Kroos said no, there's no racism in the German team.

...

The Kroos hatred is getting to some hilarious levels.
Not only is this guy, who won a WC and 4 CL titles, all as a starter, perpetually mentioned by almost all players and managers as one of the very top midfielders in the world, constantly underrated by folks who either hate him or don't understand football enough to appreciate a certain type of midfielder - now he's apparently a racist as well.
Based on... Well, f*****g nothing, really.

I'm not suggesting that his Sane comments are racist, but again I find it funny that you say this to defend Kroos when it perfectly applies to Ozil as well. There has very clearly been racist comments made by German fans, media, and executives to single out Ozil and certain teammates such as Kroos and Neuer deny it even though its quite obvious. Now not all of the criticism is influenced by racism of course, but to deny it happening at all is pretty ridiculous.

As for his Sane comments, Kroos just comes off as a d-bag for making those comments publicly and singling out his German teammate, when he could have just talked with Sane himself.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Pep calling the shots even before his arrival... like a boss.

Like a racist you mean?

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

I'm not suggesting that his Sane comments are racist, but again I find it funny that you say this to defend Kroos when it perfectly applies to Ozil as well. There has very clearly been racist comments made by German fans, media, and executives to single out Ozil and certain teammates such as Kroos and Neuer deny it even though its quite obvious. Now not all of the criticism is influenced by racism of course, but to deny it happening at all is pretty ridiculous.

As for his Sane comments, Kroos just comes off as a d-bag for making those comments publicly and singling out his German teammate, when he could have just talked with Sane himself.

There was anti-Turkish abuse by a small number of German fans on social media. (I refuse to call it 'racist' because Turks aren't non-whites even if their hair and skin are usually a bit darker than the average German's so racist is just lazy short-hand to begin with.)

But it's just utter nonsense to say there were any such comments by the German media or by executives. That kind of vile slander is what Ozil fanboys cooked up on the internet on the back of Ozil's own self-serving resignation statement. There was nothing xenophobic or prejudicial about criticizing Ozil for (1) appearing to support Erdogan in his election campaign (2) not apologizing for it or even acknowleding there's any merit in the criticism whatsoever.

When people in the media and the DFB returned to that subject after the World Cup and seemed to wish to create the impression that this was the main reason Germany exited the World Cup it was also not racist; it was self-serving and perhaps unfair. That is a legitimate criticism.

But any accusation of racism - ignoring the false use of the term to begin with - in that is based on *your* interpretation of their motivation, not based on the comments themselves. In other words *you* think that the person made that comment because *you* think they are racist, but the comment is not racist. That's a very, very notable distinction, which gets very easily forgotten in this day and age when such accusations are mindlessly thrown around all the time. In reality, of course, *your* interpretation of such comments could very well be the result of your very own biases rather than any 'racism' on part of those who made those comments.

 

[Blender]

Kroos was horrendous without the ball at the World Cup and was completely outrun by every midfield Germany played.

 

[KJS14]

There was anti-Turkish abuse by a small number of German fans on social media. (I refuse to call it 'racist' because Turks aren't non-whites even if their hair and skin are usually a bit darker than the average German's so racist is just lazy short-hand to begin with.)

But it's just utter nonsense to say there were any such comments by the German media or by executives. That kind of vile slander is what Ozil fanboys cooked up on the internet on the back of Ozil's own self-serving resignation statement. There was nothing xenophobic or prejudicial about criticizing Ozil for (1) appearing to support Erdogan in his election campaign (2) not apologizing for it or even acknowleding there's any merit in the criticism whatsoever.

When people in the media and the DFB returned to that subject after the World Cup and seemed to wish to create the impression that this was the main reason Germany exited the World Cup it was also not racist; it was self-serving and perhaps unfair. That is a legitimate criticism.

But any accusation of racism - ignoring the false use of the term to begin with - in that is based on *your* interpretation of their motivation, not based on the comments themselves. In other words *you* think that the person made that comment because *you* think they are racist, but the comment is not racist. That's a very, very notable distinction, which gets very easily forgotten in this day and age when such accusations are mindlessly thrown around all the time. In reality, of course, *your* interpretation of such comments could very well be the result of your very own biases rather than any 'racism' on part of those who made those comments.

Whether you want to call it racist or xenophobic doesn't excuse the behavior. We already know your stance on this matter from several weeks ago in the German thread so there really isn't much point in debating if you can't see the intent behind the comments/criticisms.

I guess we should pretend that other players haven't shared similar experiences very recently to back up the claims either. I suggest you read Lukaku's players tribune article, because he talks about the exact same thing in saying "when we win I'm Belgian, but when we lose I'm a Congolese immigrant." It's also a great read outside of that stuff.