GWT: PL Matchweek 33 & 34

DrMartinVanNostrand

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Oct 6, 2017
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Their bench is better than most club's starters.

Philosophically, not a big fan of this. It's better for the sport when world class players are starting and not sitting on the bench. This talent consolidation is what leads to fan consolidation as well.

Not sure what you do to solve it, of course. But, to genuinely use the phrase, you hate to see it.
 
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S E P H

Cloud IX
Mar 5, 2010
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9 defeats for City, more than Wolves, Utd and Arsenal this year.

I understand Liverpool have been exceptionally good, but City have been a terrible league team this year relative to their talent level.
As I said a couple weeks ago, this isn't going to look good for the rest of the EPL. They're going to open their big fat wallets and go to town in the transfer market. They need a lot of overturn in certain positions, but I think it's just not the defensive line.
 

DrMartinVanNostrand

Kramerica Industries
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The Null & Void crowd amongst PL fans was the absolute stupidest nonsense I heard as far as solutions to resolve the season if play couldn't be resumed. Like a team with a 22 point lead was ever going to blow that lead with only nine games remaining. Nonsense doesn't even begin to properly describe that belief.
 

YNWA14

Onbreekbaar
Dec 29, 2010
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As I said a couple weeks ago, this isn't going to look good for the rest of the EPL. They're going to open their big fat wallets and go to town in the transfer market. They need a lot of overturn in certain positions, but I think it's just not the defensive line.
The most expensive squad in the world ‘needs’ a lot of overturn? That seems like nonsense. Maybe a bit more pragmatism in their tactical approach. Talent isn’t their issue.
 

Blender

Registered User
Dec 2, 2009
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The most expensive squad in the world ‘needs’ a lot of overturn? That seems like nonsense. Maybe a bit more pragmatism in their tactical approach. Talent isn’t their issue.
I guess it depends, clearly their backline isn't good enough to support how they play despite the GDP of a small nation spent on them, but there is also nothing that says they have to play the way they do.
 

Cassano

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Aug 31, 2013
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I guess it depends, clearly their backline isn't good enough to support how they play despite the GDP of a small nation spent on them, but there is also nothing that says they have to play the way they do.
Their back line seems pretty good on paper besides missing that one CB partner with Laporte.

it’s tactical imo.
 
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les Habs

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The most expensive squad in the world ‘needs’ a lot of overturn? That seems like nonsense. Maybe a bit more pragmatism in their tactical approach. Talent isn’t their issue.

Talent clearly is an issue in some positions. Money spent and money spent well are two different things.
 
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YNWA14

Onbreekbaar
Dec 29, 2010
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Talent clearly is an issue in some positions. Money spent and money spent well are two different things.
It’s really not though. I don’t care what people say about City’s backline maybe relative to Liverpool’s it isn’t great but relative to the rest of the world there should be no issue especially when considering the vast gulf in quality in other positions. It’s a tactical issue.

Tell me they have a worse backline than Southampton or even Chelsea. Lol
 

les Habs

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It’s really not though. I don’t care what people say about City’s backline maybe relative to Liverpool’s it isn’t great but relative to the rest of the world there should be no issue especially when considering the vast gulf in quality in other positions. It’s a tactical issue.

Tell me they have a worse backline than Southampton or even Chelsea. Lol

It really is. Apart from Laporte their CBs aren't very good and neither is their GK. There's more to it than that as well with injuries and depth.
 

Chimaera

same ol' Caps
Feb 4, 2004
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They definitely spent poorly. But I also think Pep (though he will never allow it) should get some blame for not getting more out of what they did buy.

give Klopp some of their players who haven’t cut it and you’d see a difference
 

Machinehead

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Jan 21, 2011
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I bet we're gonna win the league by close to or over 30 points and they'll have a better goal differential lol
 

ItsFineImFine

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In fairness to City, that loss to Southampton was probably 100% due to schedule f***ery afoot from the condensed schedule.
 

YNWA14

Onbreekbaar
Dec 29, 2010
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I completely reject the notion that City's defenders or any of their players simply aren't good enough to beat Southampton, or other teams they've lost to outside of Liverpool this season. I get it if you're trying to compare to the elite teams (who they're still beating anyway) but any kind of claim that this is on the players available is comical at best to me.
In fairness to City, that loss to Southampton was probably 100% due to schedule f***ery afoot from the condensed schedule.
Why would that be down to schedule 'f***ery'?
 

les Habs

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I completely reject the notion that City's defenders or any of their players simply aren't good enough to beat Southampton, or other teams they've lost to outside of Liverpool this season. I get it if you're trying to compare to the elite teams (who they're still beating anyway) but any kind of claim that this is on the players available is comical at best to me.

For starters, it's not like they've lost to chopped liver this season. United twice, Chelsea, Wolves and of course Liverpool. That right there accounts for 6 of the 9 losses. That's 66% of the losses. Take Liverpool out of the equation and you're still over 50%.

To the point though, how is their group of defenders not in need of overturn? Mendy has had injury concerns, still, and not returned at his best. Zinchenko while serviceable all things considered probably shouldn't be playing for City. Laporte is good, but another player who was injured only played in 12 matches. Otamendi is still trash just like he was when you pumped him up from his Valencia days and he's 32. Fernandinho isn't even a natural CB and he's 35. Stones has never lived up to his price tag and very likely never will. Garcia is still very young and still very unproven. I think Walker and Cancelo are good enough though. Still you're left with 3 positions that need a lot of overturn which was @S E P H 's original and correct point. And that's not to mention other areas where they could improve.

Of course I could be wrong and they could just be hungover which is apparently a thing.
 

YNWA14

Onbreekbaar
Dec 29, 2010
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For starters, it's not like they've lost to chopped liver this season. United twice, Chelsea, Wolves and of course Liverpool. That right there accounts for 6 of the 9 losses. That's 66% of the losses. Take Liverpool out of the equation and you're still over 50%.

To the point though, how is their group of defenders not in need of overturn? Mendy has had injury concerns, still, and not returned at his best. Zinchenko while serviceable all things considered probably shouldn't be playing for City. Laporte is good, but another player who was injured only played in 12 matches. Otamendi is still trash just like he was when you pumped him up from his Valencia days and he's 32. Fernandinho isn't even a natural CB and he's 35. Stones has never lived up to his price tag and very likely never will. Garcia is still very young and still very unproven. I think Walker and Cancelo are good enough though. Still you're left with 3 positions that need a lot of overturn which was @S E P H 's original and correct point. And that's not to mention other areas where they could improve.

SEPH's original point and your assertion that talent is the issue here are two very different things. Like I said, it's not. Pep being inflexible and stubborn in his approach has earned him those losses this season.

Can they improve on those positions? Sure, almost every team could improve on relative weaknesses.

Of course I could be wrong and they could just be hungover which is apparently a thing.

:laugh:
 

les Habs

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SEPH's original point and your assertion that talent is the issue here are two very different things. Like I said, it's not. Pep being inflexible and stubborn in his approach has earned him those losses this season.

Can they improve on those positions? Sure, almost every team could improve on relative weaknesses.



:laugh:

Like I said, talent is "an" issue. I never said it was "the" issue. Talent is to a degree an issue and they could improve on that squad quite a lot.
 

Blender

Registered User
Dec 2, 2009
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City have definitely spent poorly on defenders, but Pep has also been stubborn with his "total football" tactics and seemingly lack of willingness to adjust even when he's playing midfielders as defenders. Sometimes you can't play exactly how you want, and you need to play some uglier football to secure the points.
 
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Savant

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Oct 3, 2013
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City have definitely spent poorly on defenders, but Pep has also been stubborn with his "total football" tactics and seemingly lack of willingness to adjust even when he's playing midfielders as defenders. Sometimes you can't play exactly how you want, and you need to play some uglier football to secure the points.
I mean Pep’s prerogative at City is just to not get attacked. None of their defenders look good when people actually run at them. Even their keeper isn’t good when teams are shooting at him.

Laporte being out isn’t why they finished second. They finished second because without Sane they couldn’t blow teams away, and they are not great in one goal games. That’s the difference between then and Liverpool. Liverpool can win those ugly, tight games when things don’t go their way.

But that’s also the Ferguson model. Ferguson won titles by being a flat track bully, dominating the bottom teams and getting to 80 points first. Of course, since Pep City establishes themselves, you might need 95 points to win a league instead of 85 points to win a league. The standard is higher and the bottom half teams, (if not better) are more talented
 
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S E P H

Cloud IX
Mar 5, 2010
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Toruń, PL
I just don't think you can honestly blame Pep for their problems. He's the best manager in the world and perhaps they were playing above their talent level for many times? But it wasn't like they're this bad either in which having more losses than freakin' us.

They might have the most expensive roster in the world, but have all their players played up to their transfer wages'?

- Ederson: 36 million pounds
- Stones: 50 million (lol)
- Otamendi: 40 million (lol)
- Mendy: 52 million (lol)
- Zinchenko: Wasn't ever expensive, but not really good enough
- Walker: 47 million (lol)
- Feranandinho: He's been a good warrior, but age clearly effecting him
- Gundogan: Not expensive, but doesn't really do a lot
- D. Silva: He's been a good warrior, but upgrade needed
- Mahrez: 61 million for a fantastic player, but was he truly needed?
- Jesus: 30 million for a good yet inconsistent player

That's their enemy right there, all those players and that's pretty much 95% of their backline, depth defensively, and defensive midfield with some offensive options thrown in. Now I know you lot won't agree with everyone such as Mahrez and perhaps Jesus, but I think we can all agree that majority are actually pretty overrated if you were to ask me. Is Walker a bad player? No, is Mendy, Zinchenko, or Gundogan bad? Absolutely not, but they don't really ignite anything either. I think the difference between Man City and Liverpool resides to the fact that they have a superior goalkeeper, superior CB/backline, and I would take two of their three attacking options over Citeh.

What I mean here is that I this season's Mane and Salah have been much better than Sterling and Mahrez. Aguero is a thousandfold times better than Firmino, but Kun plays like 50% of the time due to reoccurring injuries. Then you're having to rely on Jesus to win you games and he hasn't ever really developed into that sort of player. To me he's Leicester City quality at best and not really the type of Man City ambitious talent they need.

I think the oil money of Man City allowed Pep to get the team he truly wanted in terms of players attributes, but Pep had to overpay for overrated talent (something he should be blamed for). KFC on the other hand made very smart buys and didn't really overspend, I think they're fortunate that the players they bought turned to be who they are now, but Barca being a dumbarse and spending like 150 million on Coutinho also very much helped fiance all their important moves. The problem is that Man City doesn't and shouldn't really sell their good players because they don't have somebody overrated like Coutinho which came off a great season. However, not all of it should be Pep's fault because he didn't ask for Aguero to be on LTIR for many important games or Mendy channelling his inner Abou Diaby. Besides Ox (and maybe Allison), I suggest KFC should be quite humble that majority of their best players have been quite healthy the last two seasons.

Whenever Man City has played Liverpool, they've dealt with at least one major injury either it be to Ederson, Silva, CB, or de Bruyne. I don't think Citeh are very far away of being the most dominant EPL club again, but they're going to have to overturn majority of the players I mentioned above. Hell, that 61 million for Mahrez would be awfully useful to get Koulibaly right now (even though he sucks). Not only that, but if they never bought Mahrez, Sane would be playing meaning that they would've saved so much money. Not that it matters to Citeh, because money doesn't, but I also think their funds are not like endless gold mine either. They have a cap just like we've seen with one of the wealthiest clubs in Barca and Citeh has got to be up there as well. I just can't put myself to think that Pep needs to be the one to leave because he's an issue. Sure, some of the blame absolutely is on him and the transfer team, but they've had unfortunate circumstances happen too!
 
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