GWT: PL Matchweek 31

Blender

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I just don’t see that though and it’s what I was referring to. His ability in possession and link up play are some of the weakest parts of his game, but we’ll see how he adjusts anyway.

At the end of the day I don’t think anyone can be confident that Lampard will give Pulisic consistent minutes with increased competition given how this season has gone but if you are that’s cool. I’m not convinced yet; didn’t know I had to be.
I can't agree with this at all. Every time I have watched him this year he tends to drift all over the front third of the pitch making link up plays with his teammates. Most tactical analysis of him I have read as well say that his ability to play within the team is a huge strength. He even gave an interview this year where he said he thought that was one of his biggest strengths.

Werner: "I think that assists are one of my strengths. You're always defined as a striker by how many goals you score, but now I play a new position under the new coach. I'm playing almost as an attacking midfielder, which means I've got to play like the others do, like Forsberg, Sabitzer, Nkunku, and get assists. Naturally, I've got to always link it all together. We've got to get beyond this image of me being the team's goalscorer. I want to support my teammates instead. It's working well, especially when we play well together. The lads know that when they set me up, I'll happily return the favour. It's worked really well in the first games of the season."
 
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YNWA14

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I can't agree with this at all. Every time I have watched him this year he tends to drift all over the front third of the pitch making link up plays with his teammates. Most tactical analysis of him I have read as well say that his ability to play within the team is a huge strength. He even gave an interview this year where he said he thought that was one of his biggest strengths.
There’s definitely been an improvement this season but I think it’s largely systemic. His skill in terms of build up or actually making those plays isn’t in the top end of strikers from what I’ve seen and based on stats though it is better than what I thought it would be. Maybe he will carry that over to Chelsea but Lampard is no Nagelsmann. Still, i guess I misinterpreted what you meant originally comparing him to Giroud and you’re right about him being better than Abraham in that respect. My impression could be wrong too since I don’t watch Werner consistently so he could come over and do exactly those things and I’ll happily admit so.
 

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Also even though he’s playing better now this is still a small sample size and there’s a lot of change to come. I don’t fault anyone for waiting and seeing how it goes. I do it with Liverpool players all the time (see Fabinho, Salah, though those are performing at different levels to Pulisic obviously).

But yeah it’s a really weird argument.
But he's young and a player that has previously performed quite well and has good potential. So this seems more like him getting to grips with a new team/system/league than some random guy popping out and playing well. I would assume him playing well isn't some anomaly though.
 

Blender

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There’s definitely been an improvement this season but I think it’s largely systemic. His skill in terms of build up or actually making those plays isn’t in the top end of strikers from what I’ve seen and based on stats though it is better than what I thought it would be. Maybe he will carry that over to Chelsea but Lampard is no Nagelsmann. Still, i guess I misinterpreted what you meant originally comparing him to Giroud and you’re right about him being better than Abraham in that respect. My impression could be wrong too since I don’t watch Werner consistently so he could come over and do exactly those things and I’ll happily admit so.
Werner used to be way more static horizontally and mostly use his speed vertically on the pitch. This year under Nagelsmann he's definitely been expected to drift a lot more and to create chances for others. Seems to be doing a great job at it, and with how Lampard likes to structure his attack I expect that Werner will have the same expectations on him. Giroud is really good at this, but he's slower and not as much of a goal scoring threat himself. Where he's much better is being able to receive passes or long balls and just hold up the play until reinforcement arrive, then make a good play to transition into an attack. I don't think Werner is physical enough for that.
 
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les Habs

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I can't agree with this at all. Every time I have watched him this year he tends to drift all over the front third of the pitch making link up plays with his teammates. Most tactical analysis of him I have read as well say that his ability to play within the team is a huge strength. He even gave an interview this year where he said he thought that was one of his biggest strengths.

Yes, he's had a much freer role this season and as a result of that he's looked notably better. I wasn't very high on him at all until this season and now that's changed completely. I think the question is will Lampard give him that freedom with Chelsea?
 

Blender

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Yes, he's had a much freer role this season and as a result of that he's looked notably better. I wasn't very high on him at all until this season and now that's changed completely. I think the question is will Lampard give him that freedom with Chelsea?
I think so, and I think that's really what they were looking for more than just a pure goal scorer. Lampard's offensive tactics really rely on fluid movement and quick passes to pull defenders out of position to open up channels for our guys to run into. You often see when we're in the final third our players end up in all sorts of different positions because they have that freedom to roam with the expectation that the next guy over will slide into that open space.
 

bleedblue1223

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Yes, he's had a much freer role this season and as a result of that he's looked notably better. I wasn't very high on him at all until this season and now that's changed completely. I think the question is will Lampard give him that freedom with Chelsea?
We'll find out. This year, Lampard had to deal with what he had, so I don't think we've really seen what his ideal tactics look like. Based on his targets, I could see a much more fluid, free-flowing system where attacking players move in and out of different spots. That's the perk with players like Werner, Havertz, Ziyech, they feel comfortable in many places, where many of the current Chelsea players are nowhere near as flexible. Mount is sort of fits that style and we know Lampard likes him.

Like Blender said, Lampard likes playing this way, we just don't have the ideal players to effectively pull it off consistently.
 
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Blender

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We'll find out. This year, Lampard had to deal with what he had, so I don't think we've really seen what his ideal tactics look like. Based on his targets, I could see a much more fluid, free-flowing system where attacking players move in and out of different spots. That's the perk with players like Werner, Havertz, Ziyech, they feel comfortable in many places, where many of the current Chelsea players are nowhere near as flexible. Mount is sort of fits that style and we know Lampard likes him.

Like Blender said, Lampard likes playing this way, we just don't have the ideal players to effectively pull it off consistently.
Yea I really want to see the system at work with a full squad of players who are suited to it. I think that's part of the reason Lampard has brought in some of the academy players he has as well, because they are more suited to that free-flowing style than some of the older players are. I also think it's why Kovacic has had such a great season, because he is well suited to both passing and carrying the ball, and taking advantage of that movement and space with Mount. Last year Kovacic often seemed out of place because he wasn't supposed to roam, and his game really thrives on being able to do that.
 
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YNWA14

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I think Chelsea are going to be a formidable team next season. I’m interested in seeing that evolution and if those players coming in really do add to the free flowing game they want to play.

I was already very wrong about how Chelsea would look this season and completely underestimated Lampard as a manager. They’ve looked much better (though lacking a bit in consistency) than I expected. Adding Werner and Ziyech to that should add to their consistency. I think they could be a real threat for the title already if their defending gets a little more robust.
 

Blender

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I think Chelsea are going to be a formidable team next season. I’m interested in seeing that evolution and if those players coming in really do add to the free flowing game they want to play.

I was already very wrong about how Chelsea would look this season and completely underestimated Lampard as a manager. They’ve looked much better (though lacking a bit in consistency) than I expected. Adding Werner and Ziyech to that should add to their consistency. I think they could be a real threat for the title already if their defending gets a little more robust.
I, a Chelsea fan, was also wrong about them. They have done better than I expected, I was just hopeful for a Europa League spot. Our youth has performed much better than most people expected, and Lampard has done a fantastic job in his first season here.
 

bleedblue1223

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Our success was always dependent on the youth. Mount was a solid player this year, but the big difference was Abraham scoring like a quality starter, and then we added in big improvement from Kovacic and Jorginho. If Abraham didn't score like he did, we wouldn't be top 4. If Kovacic didn't play like he did, we wouldn't be top 4 either. Those 4 playing like they did really wasn't something anyone could bank on.

For next season, it'll be about the back 4+Kepa, and mainly the CB's+Kepa. Rudiger is a good #2, and the others have potential for being a good #2, but we need that commanding shutdown #1. And Kepa is still Kepa. I think he can bounce back and be a more solid keeper, but that'll be upgraded at some point. Probably not this summer, but in the nearish future. He can get us top 4, and I don't think our goal next season is to really win titles, but the season after that, then it will be the goal.
 
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bleedblue1223

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We were also lucky this season that of the big 5 clubs, only 2 of them actually performed like big clubs, and even City was pretty lackluster due to some of their problems. The 4th spot seemed at times, a fight of teams that didn't actually want it.
 
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YNWA14

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We were also lucky this season that of the big 5 clubs, only 2 of them actually performed like big clubs, and even City was pretty lackluster due to some of their problems. The 4th spot seemed at times, a fight of teams that didn't actually want it.
Personally I think that it just takes really special teams to separate from the ‘mid table’ teams and that’s only going to keep getting tougher as the talent gaps close. Management and coaching will be making a bigger and bigger difference (though that already has a large impact). Some really good football being played now by more than just the traditional big boys. I don’t necessarily think that all of the big teams were at their best but they never really are at a world beating level all at the same time anyway. Teams like Leicester, Sheffield, Wolves, etc. are making it harder for the ‘big teams’ who aren’t necessarily in peak form to collect points on talent alone.

So yeah when including Liverpool I don’t really buy the whole weaker league argument this season.
 

bleedblue1223

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Personally I think that it just takes really special teams to separate from the ‘mid table’ teams and that’s only going to keep getting tougher as the talent gaps close. Management and coaching will be making a bigger and bigger difference (though that already has a large impact). Some really good football being played now by more than just the traditional big boys. I don’t necessarily think that all of the big teams were at their best but they never really are at a world beating level all at the same time anyway. Teams like Leicester, Sheffield, Wolves, etc. are making it harder for the ‘big teams’ who aren’t necessarily in peak form to collect points on talent alone.

So yeah when including Liverpool I don’t really buy the whole weaker league argument this season.
Liverpool was historically great, and me saying the big 5 being weaker isn't a way to knock their accomplishment. And while the big 6 typically aren't all firing on all cylinders at the same time, you usually don't have 4 of them with pretty major issues. I do agree that there are other teams that are now much more competitive, and that's a great thing because it makes everything more competitive on a week to week basis and overall more challenging. There are significantly less gimme type games.

I'm just saying that for a lot of the season Chelsea, Man U, Arsenal, and Spurs were seemingly fighting for who would miss out of Champions League.
 
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Evilo

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I really don't think he was overrated as an American player. Maybe a tad over-hyped at one point, but he's the first American to produce quality numbers at a big club, and on top of that at a young age, he's justified the hype.
When I'm the only poster calling out another for saying Pulisic is much better than I rate him (top 5 Bundeliga player), then YEAH, he's overrated AND overhyped.
 

c9777666

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I was a bit surprised to find out that Liverpool's clinching was the earliest ever premier league clinch in terms of games remaining.

Even the Arsenal Invincibles or Man United's Sir Alex glory years never clinched THIS early.

Chelsea in 04 finished a respectable 11 points behind Arsenal. Man City probably isn't going to be as close in the standings to Liverpool this year.
 

Blender

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I was a bit surprised to find out that Liverpool's clinching was the earliest ever premier league clinch in terms of games remaining.

Even the Arsenal Invincibles or Man United's Sir Alex glory years never clinched THIS early.

Chelsea in 04 finished a respectable 11 points behind Arsenal. Man City probably isn't going to be as close in the standings to Liverpool this year.
19-20 Liverpool with 7 games to go already have 2 more wins than the 03-04 Arsenal team did and have matched the most wins in a season Ferguson ever got with Manchester United. If they win 4 of the last 7 they will tie Manchester City's record of 32 wins.
 
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bleedblue1223

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When I'm the only poster calling out another for saying Pulisic is much better than I rate him (top 5 Bundeliga player), then YEAH, he's overrated AND overhyped.
I don't know that's accurate. At various points in time, there have been plenty to critique Pulisic. Heck, I'm one of them. There were way more people critical of him than praising in the beginning of the season.

In general, it's the cool thing to bash American players because of the USMNT, and the NT deserves it, but Pulisic was the one that didn't deserve it. It's not his fault all the other players just expect him to win the game.
 
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Evilo

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Go back to the discussion. I was the only one.
And really I was the outrageous one saying he had top 5 Buli potential.
 

Pavel Buchnevich

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Go back to the discussion. I was the only one.
And really I was the outrageous one saying he had top 5 Buli potential.

What about the claims you've made that I said he's better than Mbappe? When you were asked to back this up, you hid behind the servers no longer housing it. But you still insist this was said. Very convenient.

I'm sure you still remember the discussion about Pulisic, Mor and Dembele. You are cgf were sure that Pulisic was the worst of the three and would turn into the worst player of the three. Others weren't sure who'd be the best of the three. Unfortunately, and I do say this unfortunately because Dembele could've been a real world class player, Pulisic has turned out to be the best of the three. Do you think you overrated him or underrated him?
 

Pavel Buchnevich

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In general, it's the cool thing to bash American players because of the USMNT

I think thats what US fans do. I don't however think the majority of football fans care about our National Team and inner-team dynamics or issues. We are an irrelevant NT.

They bash him because it's a cool thing to bash American players. We aren't that good at soccer, so we are an easy target. No one respects our players. You'd think that the Canadian posters here, who also see their players given absolutely no respect to begin with, wouldn't take part because they'd understand what its like for the football world to perpetually make fun of their players, not rate them, underrate them, make them prove themselves to degrees that players from other countries don't, but evidently not.

Same type of thing France or Germany faces with hockey.
 

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Well Pulisic isn’t better than Dembele. Dembele has been quite good when he’s been healthy enough to play.
 

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19-20 Liverpool with 7 games to go already have 2 more wins than the 03-04 Arsenal team did and have matched the most wins in a season Ferguson ever got with Manchester United. If they win 4 of the last 7 they will tie Manchester City's record of 32 wins.
Positivity!
 

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