GWT: PL Matchweek 3

[hatterson]

De Gea and Pogba are the clear options. Sanchez should be close to that too although he's struggling to start the year. Lukaku isn't at the same level as Kane or Salah as goal scorers, but he's in that next tier behind and would be an upgrade for both Arsenal and Chelsea. Bailly is a top CB when healthy, people are dramatically overracting to last week.

Our rotational midfield attacking players (Mata, Rashford, Martial, Lingard, etc.) would be the same rotational options on other teams.

 

[Live in the Now]

I'd say De Gea and Pogba would make every starting XI.

Yeah. They do seem to have lots of depth players and a couple starters who wouldn't be in the other top six teams though. Besides Arsenal's.

 

[bluesfan94]

Honestly, if you look at all of the other top 6 who from United would you even take?

I'd take Matic, De Gea, Pogba, and Martial.

Aubameyang - Lacazette - Martial
Pogba - Özil - Matic
Monreal - Mustafi - Sokratis - Bellerin
De Gea​

with a bench of Ramsey, Torreira, Iwobi, Mkhi, Guendouzi, Kolasinac, Lichtsteiner, etc.

 

[Live in the Now]

Talking about their roster also obscures the overall point, that they spent a TON of money to create that roster.

 

[hatterson]

Talking about their roster also obscures the overall point, that they spent a TON of money to create that roster.

I don't think anyone is denying this. The overall point about the roster though is that this isn't a team that, based purely on talent, should be struggling to find a spot in the top 4. They're not quite at the level of City, or that Liverpool appears to have reached, but they're not that far behind if you have a manager playing to their strengths.

There's a ton of attacking quality in the side and yet they've consistently struggled to score goals, or even generate chances, due to the manager's system.

 

[Il Mediano]

United's roster:

GK- De Gea top 5 in the world
RB- Valencia , solid , not starting United quality, imo
CB- Bailly, love the guy- looks like he's getting worse under Mourinho
CB- Lindelof, undecided
LB- Shaw, horrendously managed by Mourinho. Good player

CDM- Matic, really good player
CM- Pogba, really good player, potentially (likely) elite with a different manager
CM- Fred, I dunno

RW- Lingard, solid player
CF- Lukaku , not my cup of tea, but a really good player
LW- Sanchez, really overrated (imo), but still a good player vastly underperforming
----------------------

GK- Romero, one the better backups around
RB- Dalot, no idea.. seems promising
CB- Jones, good enough to be a 3CB , imo
CB- Smalling, good enough to be a 4CB, imo
CB- Rojo , why is he on the team?
LB- Young, no... just no
RB/LB- Darmian, never should've been signed by United. Isn't as bad as you think, though.

CM- Herrera, completely under-utilized and a shadow of his Bilbao days
CM- Pereira, looks quite promising, but being wrongfully deployed
CM- Felliani, why the hell is he on the team?
CM- McTominay, seems like a potential squad player for some time. Nothing special

CAM/RW- Mata, terribly utilized by Mourinho. Could start for a ton of quality sides in Europe and prosper.
LW- Martial, horrendous management by Mourinho. Just brutal. He's a potential star.
LW/CF- Rashford , extremely promising player, stagnating after the Sanchez deal. Looks like he's plateaued under Mourinho at 20 years old.
-------------------------------

CB/RB - Fosu-Mensah, should be playing for United

 

[The Abusement Park]

United's roster:

GK- De Gea top 5 in the world
RB- Valencia , solid , not starting United quality, imo
CB- Bailly, love the guy- looks like he's getting worse under Mourinho
CB- Lindelof, undecided
LB- Shaw, horrendously managed by Mourinho. Good player

CDM- Matic, really good player
CM- Pogba, really good player, potentially (likely) elite with a different manager
CM- Fred, I dunno

RW- Lingard, solid player
CF- Lukaku , not my cup of tea, but a really good player
LW- Sanchez, really overrated (imo), but still a good player vastly underperforming
----------------------

GK- Romero, one the better backups around
RB- Dalot, no idea.. seems promising
CB- Jones, good enough to be a 3CB , imo
CB- Smalling, good enough to be a 4CB, imo
CB- Rojo , why is he on the team?
LB- Young, no... just no
RB/LB- Darmian, never should've been signed by United. Isn't as bad as you think, though.

CM- Herrera, completely under-utilized and a shadow of his Bilbao days
CM- Pereira, looks quite promising, but being wrongfully deployed
CM- Felliani, why the hell is he on the team?
CM- McTominay, seems like a potential squad player for some time. Nothing special

CAM/RW- Mata, terribly utilized by Mourinho. Could start for a ton of quality sides in Europe and prosper.
LW- Martial, horrendous management by Mourinho. Just brutal. He's a potential star.
LW/CF- Rashford , extremely promising player, stagnating after the Sanchez deal. Looks like he's plateaued under Mourinho at 20 years old.
-------------------------------

CB/RB - Fosu-Mensah, should be playing for United

Seems like a pretty fair assessment overall.

 

[YNWA14]

As starters or depth players?

Starters.

Outside of Pogba and de Gea only Arsenal really would see an upgrade at a few positions to their starting XI. Starting XI is really important in determining the quality of a team (even though depth is still important for multiple fronts). Lukaku is a very limited player and actually is lucky to be playing on a Mourinho team. He's a midtable striker.

This roster absolutely would be having a big fight on its hands to make top 4 under most managers.

 

[hatterson]

This roster absolutely would be having a big fight on its hands to make top 4 under most managers.

So you're saying Mourinho is an excellent manager?

 

[Jussi]

Hilarious/sad how people underrate Ashley Young's last season. He was miles ahead of Valencia both offensively and defensively. Did people only see the Leicester game this season from him and use that as the basis? He's got more left in his engine than Valencia currently.

 

[Il Mediano]

Hilarious how United fans convince themselves he's actually an adequate fullback. And then wonder why they aren't a better side.

 

[Live in the Now]

Hilarious/sad how people underrate Ashley Young's last season. He was miles ahead of Valencia both offensively and defensively. Did people only see the Leicester game this season from him and use that as the basis? He's got more left in his engine than Valencia currently.

Milner was ahead of Clyne when he was a left back too, that doesn't make him a left back.

 

[Gecklund]

Starters.

Outside of Pogba and de Gea only Arsenal really would see an upgrade at a few positions to their starting XI. Starting XI is really important in determining the quality of a team (even though depth is still important for multiple fronts). Lukaku is a very limited player and actually is lucky to be playing on a Mourinho team. He's a midtable striker.

This roster absolutely would be having a big fight on its hands to make top 4 under most managers.

Pogba, Sanchez, De Gea, Bailly, Matic, and Lukaku would at least be in the conversation if not starting for other top 6 sides.

Then you got the promising ones that might break in with Martial, Rashford, Shaw, Pereira, Lindelof, TFM.
Then you got the ones that look like it might be a Mou issue in Mata, Herrera, Fred, Romero and Lingard.
Then you got the ones that shouldn't be near other teams 11s in Rojo, Darmian, Felliani Young, possibly Smalling, Jones

 

[Evilo]

You should stick to leagues you watch and sort of understand is all. The only roster that United is close to in the top 6 is Arsenal.

Sure.
Says the guy who drafted someone he never saw in club play.

Your evaluation of United's roster is laughable. Unsurprisingly.

 

[Evilo]

That's hilarious that because of a coach that plays awful tactics, every single United player is awful now.

No kidding. Ignore the guy, he can't see any United player properly.

 

[Evilo]

I love how an awful team with awful players and an awful manager comfortably finished ahead of these teams that are much better than them last year.

No kidding.

 

[Evilo]

United's roster:

GK- De Gea top 5 in the world
RB- Valencia , solid , not starting United quality, imo
CB- Bailly, love the guy- looks like he's getting worse under Mourinho
CB- Lindelof, undecided
LB- Shaw, horrendously managed by Mourinho. Good player

CDM- Matic, really good player
CM- Pogba, really good player, potentially (likely) elite with a different manager
CM- Fred, I dunno

RW- Lingard, solid player
CF- Lukaku , not my cup of tea, but a really good player
LW- Sanchez, really overrated (imo), but still a good player vastly underperforming
----------------------

GK- Romero, one the better backups around
RB- Dalot, no idea.. seems promising
CB- Jones, good enough to be a 3CB , imo
CB- Smalling, good enough to be a 4CB, imo
CB- Rojo , why is he on the team?
LB- Young, no... just no
RB/LB- Darmian, never should've been signed by United. Isn't as bad as you think, though.

CM- Herrera, completely under-utilized and a shadow of his Bilbao days
CM- Pereira, looks quite promising, but being wrongfully deployed
CM- Felliani, why the hell is he on the team?
CM- McTominay, seems like a potential squad player for some time. Nothing special

CAM/RW- Mata, terribly utilized by Mourinho. Could start for a ton of quality sides in Europe and prosper.
LW- Martial, horrendous management by Mourinho. Just brutal. He's a potential star.
LW/CF- Rashford , extremely promising player, stagnating after the Sanchez deal. Looks like he's plateaued under Mourinho at 20 years old.
-------------------------------

CB/RB - Fosu-Mensah, should be playing for United

All of this seems fair.
Of course, it's not comparable to Liverpool's all star roster, but it's still quite solid.

 

[YNWA14]

So you're saying Mourinho is an excellent manager?

I'm saying he's suited to the team. I don't think he's a great manager for a top club anymore but I don't think that United have a top roster either. It's pretty clear what I've been saying but if you think that Mourinho is the only problem that's fine; I'm sure as soon as they hire a new manager they'll shoot right into a title and wont struggle at all.

Mourinho is effective for short periods.

 

[Evilo]

I don't think anyone has said United had a championship winning roster. So why use that type of crappy 5 year old argument (like "player X is a bum" because I think player Y is better).

They have a roster that should finish top 3 and play MUCH better football. Which is what everyone is saying.

 

[The Abusement Park]

I'm saying he's suited to the team. I don't think he's a great manager for a top club anymore but I don't think that United have a top roster either. It's pretty clear what I've been saying but if you think that Mourinho is the only problem that's fine; I'm sure as soon as they hire a new manager they'll shoot right into a title and wont struggle at all.

Mourinho is effective for short periods.

I don’t think a single person is saying this.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Something I think Man United are lacking is a leader in their back line. Somebody who can keep it organized.

Come to think of it, I don't think they have many players at all that can lead well.

 

[Evilo]

Right.
You should check the documentary about France's lockeroom during the WC.

 

[YNWA14]

I don’t think a single person is saying this.

Well originally I was going to say top 4 but they just finished 2nd. Everyone is complaining but I think its obscuring the fact that their roster isn't that great. Again I've not said that their players are all awful, but its relative. Their roster is just not better than City, Liverpool, Chelsea or Spurs or even Arsenal. Mourinho got a lot out of that roster last season but we know his coaching style is unsustainable.

You're a United fan. You really think they have a better roster top to bottom then those other 4? If not then of course they shouldn't be guaranteed a top 4 spot which is all I'm saying.

I think the complaints about Mourinho's style are very legitimate. I cant stand watching his teams either. But those complaints come out even more when he's not getting results which, for the most part, he was last season.

 

[koyvoo]

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Right.
You should check the documentary about France's lockeroom during the WC.

Pogba is top of my list. Who else on Manchester United can lead well?

It just strikes me that United lack communication on the pitch.